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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: mole]
#6333828
09/26/18 05:04 PM
09/26/18 05:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,719
Central Pennsylvania
Nittany Lion
Don't call me Mister, Mister
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Don't call me Mister, Mister
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,719
Central Pennsylvania
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DEc 21 shortest day of the year. Sunrise here in NY 7;17 Am Alabama 6 ;42 Am Sunset NY 4 ;32 pm Alabama 4 ;44 pm . there is a difference but not all that much in the length of daylight but there sure is a difference in the fur quality between NY and Alabama Good post Mole.
I got myself a seniors' GPS.
Not only does it tell me how to get to my destination,
it tells me why I wanted to go there.
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Nd native]
#6333905
09/26/18 07:23 PM
09/26/18 07:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 47,601
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 47,601
james bay frontierOnt.
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A lot of trappers mix up fur quality with the priming cycle.Two different things.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: bblwi]
#6334047
09/26/18 09:59 PM
09/26/18 09:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
LLtrapper
"The Coon Combine"
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"The Coon Combine"
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
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Just looking at the daylight differences on the shortest day of the year in the northern hemisphere misses the point that the animals have evolved to have their fur not only change in amount but type weeks if not month prior to the shortest day of the year. If they waited until the shortest day to grow a different set of fur things would have been tough for them. Those species or individuals that did not adapt earlier are not here today.
Bryce The credit goes to the creator not the creation. God is proactive and not reactive. Animals do not prime up when it is cold and will prime when it is still really warm. He gives them a coat before it is needed. LLL
Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Nd native]
#6334091
09/26/18 11:34 PM
09/26/18 11:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
ebsurveyor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
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Got a question for those of you that went to college and got a lot of knowledge. How does available food affect priming? I can state this fact as it pertains to bears in Northern Maine. In years of short food supplies the bears prime up & fatten up sooner. When food is plentiful not so much. I'm basing this on 100's of bears killed over the past 10 years at the camps I've worked at. A few years ago we could not find a bear after Oct. 8 and had to cancel booked hunts. Last year the bears were still out @ Thanksgiving. This year (short food supply) the bears had lots of fat and very nice fur in early September. Last year with lots of food the bears had very little fat & very thin fur into October. I have cameras on baits and will report when the bears disappear this year.
Last edited by ebsurveyor; 09/26/18 11:36 PM.
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Nd native]
#6334240
09/27/18 08:14 AM
09/27/18 08:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 47,601
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 47,601
james bay frontierOnt.
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Bear hides don't prime up until early spring.
Bears stay out longer in fall when there is still food available for them.
The quality of fur varies quite a bit from one individual bear to another.
From my experience of commercial hide hunting for about 15 years,smaller bears tend to have more coarse and wooly hides and rub a lot quicker in the spring.Older bears have silkier fur and hold their coats for a longer period in spring.
Bears that have some fat under the skin in the spring(these invariably are larger bears) tend to have a shorter nap than bears that have used up all their fat in hibernation.
One fall the bears all had some sort of a disease.Although there was a bumper crop of blueberries that fall,all the outfitters reported bears in poor shape with little to no fat.
Last edited by Boco; 09/27/18 08:17 AM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Nd native]
#6334281
09/27/18 09:16 AM
09/27/18 09:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
ebsurveyor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
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I'll post a link to an interesting study concerning marten/bears in areas with lots of beech trees. The area I talked about (two posts up) is near the Spectacle Pond study area. For the past ten years I've worked at two different bear hunting camps in this area. The kill at these two camps varies from about 70 - 100 bears each year. Bottom line, even numbered years (lots of beech nut) = no fat (to speak of) & poor quality fur on the bears. Bears also den-up much later (6-8 weeks later). Odd numbered years (low beech nut production) the bears will fatten up quicker and have high quality fur at least a month sooner. It is an excepted fact (with guides & local taxidermists) that during lots of food years the bears will have low quality fur during the Sep-Oct harvest season. The opposite is also true, during years of low food bears have a high quality fur during the harvest season. I also wonder where all of the bears come from the hunting area is about 400 sq. miles and killing about 1500 bears there (past 20 years) seems like a lot of bears. I'll also add that the surrounding areas are also leased for bear baiting/hunting. Bear Marten Study
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: ebsurveyor]
#6334333
09/27/18 10:37 AM
09/27/18 10:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,795
McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,795
McGrath, AK
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I'll post a link to an interesting study concerning marten/bears in areas with lots of beech trees. The area I talked about (two posts up) is near the Spectacle Pond study area. For the past ten years I've worked at two different bear hunting camps in this area. The kill at these two camps varies from about 70 - 100 bears each year. Bottom line, even numbered years (lots of beech nut) = no fat (to speak of) & poor quality fur on the bears. Bears also den-up much later (6-8 weeks later). Odd numbered years (low beech nut production) the bears will fatten up quicker and have high quality fur at least a month sooner. It is an excepted fact (with guides & local taxidermists) that during lots of food years the bears will have low quality fur during the Sep-Oct harvest season. The opposite is also true, during years of low food bears have a high quality fur during the harvest season. I also wonder where all of the bears come from the hunting area is about 400 sq. miles and killing about 1500 bears there (past 20 years) seems like a lot of bears. I'll also add that the surrounding areas are also leased for bear baiting/hunting. Bear Marten Study That's an interesting study. It's easy to sit here and pick it apart but It does raise some interesting questions. What I DON'T like is in their discussion of marten harvest they say that litter numbers or survival may be greater following years of higher beechnut production....and that COULD lead to higher juveniles in the harvest. But they never provide any age/sex breakdown on the marten harvest. Also, I think it would be good to look at changes or restrictions on methods and means of trapping marten. Are trappers restricted to certain types of sets, or baits, or traps ? That would be consistent from year to year if no changes in regulations or trapper effort occurred during that time.... but I can't envision any critter turning up its nose at a fat chunk of beaver and eating a beechnut by preference. Where I really started to question the whole exercise was where they said the Huntington Wildlife Forest is located @ 74* 15' N x 44* 00' W. I don't think so !
Mean As Nails
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Nd native]
#6334337
09/27/18 10:40 AM
09/27/18 10:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,902
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,902
Armpit, ak
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It is the reduced amount of UV light that enters the eye of an animal that triggers the priming process. Primeness is dictated by many factors previously mentioned. Carry on!
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Boone Liane]
#6334338
09/27/18 10:40 AM
09/27/18 10:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
ebsurveyor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
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There is no debate.
Primeness is dictated by photoperiod.
It’s scientific fact. Scientific fact: something that a government study funded and has been repeated so many times that people actually believe it. It is a fact that in areas of northern Maine SEP & OCT BEAR FUR QUALITY differs greatly year to year. Maybe all of the beechnuts create more shade and less light reaches the bears. These same shading beechnuts also affect weasels & snowshoe hares. That's all I have to say about that.
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: ebsurveyor]
#6334360
09/27/18 11:13 AM
09/27/18 11:13 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,654
SD
Boone Liane
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,654
SD
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There is no debate.
Primeness is dictated by photoperiod.
It’s scientific fact. Scientific fact: something that a government study funded and has been repeated so many times that people actually believe it. It is a fact that in areas of northern Maine SEP & OCT BEAR FUR QUALITY differs greatly year to year. Maybe all of the beechnuts create more shade and less light reaches the bears. These same shading beechnuts also affect weasels & snowshoe hares. That's all I have to say about that. Fur QUALITY and fur PRIMENESS are two seperate things. Fur can be PRIME, and of low QUALITY. Temperatures, hot or cold, will not speed up nor slow down the timeline in which an animals fur primes. Temperatures can speed up the decline of fur (damage wise) on the backside. Warm falls and winters, no or little snow almost always means damage starts to show up earlier and with greater magnitude, at least in canines. Last year we were unseasonably warm through November and early December. No coincidence I started seeing some significant damage on Dec 10th. I was expecting it. When I should have been killing the BEST coyotes of the year, most were damaged to some extent. Prime, but quality was low.
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Nd native]
#6334376
09/27/18 11:37 AM
09/27/18 11:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,902
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,902
Armpit, ak
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So the photoperiod controls the rate of hair growth?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner?
[Re: Nd native]
#6334396
09/27/18 12:04 PM
09/27/18 12:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
ebsurveyor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,672
sometimes PA ME or FL
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This is a fact: every other year (call it the beechnut effect) in northern Maine, Bear's fur grows longer & thicker, sooner. This happens in year's of LOW FOOD SUPPLY. It is obvious to those of us that operate there (N 46.5, W 68.5). Even Captain Obvious knows it. I'll add something else, during these years of low food supply the bears den-up early & the 'coon go with them.
Last edited by ebsurveyor; 09/27/18 12:12 PM.
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