I go our of my way to insist people DON'T leave too much pipe out of the ground.....not for the guys that leaves 2-3 inches out like EB does above....but rather, because I see people leave 6-10 inches or more out of the ground. Some of the videos on YouTube show the "Pipe Dream" set made that way......not the way I wrote about it or made it, but heck, if it works, so be it.

I get a zillion questions on email/PM/demos etc. about guys having issues......and MANY times, I think, they are leaving too much out of the ground and/or NOT burying pipe in a grass tuft or cover or whatever......

Again, if they ask me "what am I doing wrong?" and I see pics like that, I point out that I DON'T do it that way. If you leave a lot out and it works, then you are doing it right!

Guys that haven't had much success that have only put out 2-3-4 of them haven't given them the college try...............not a big enough sample to say it doesn't work "in their area".

MZ

Good to know. Just wondering Zag - have you ever tried a double pipe set? Sort of like a double dirt hole but with the conduit with different baits/lures? Just curious

w

Essentially, this is a flat set with an improvement in how to hold bait and lure. I will use it

Skye, don’t forget what Mark said, this set is MORE than just the bait/lure method. It’s more about the freeze proof/freeze resistant bedding method with a higher profile bait/lure holder/dispenser.

It’s the bedding method which brought me to be interested in this type of set.

Hey Zag, coyote trapping for 3 years now. With the void under the trap and no support there does the trap wiggle at all? Used to bedding them up tight and packing in the jaws. Thanks

Just started trapping this summer and after scouring this site and You Tube, I tried these sets...they work! Unfortunately they would have probably worked better had I left less pipe exposed. But it was cool to see some pipes pulled and chewed and 2 were basically chewed off at ground level. I trap in different types of soil where some could be pulled and some I had to dig out. Will be going with these about 80% this year. This has been our wettest year ever since I can remember. We are getting 1-3” a week...the Pipe Dream is about the only set that doesn’t get washed out.

Pipe dream has been working well . Two fox and a coyote from the same set (didn't have phone for one of the fox) .

I should have added a clean set to the outside of the catch circle on the coyote remake

Understood. Not sure how I feel about the trap coverage. I always dig a narrow, deeper trap bed to bury the trap chain/MBcrunch and stabilize the trap. We are not as wet as Zagman's area appears to be. I like the idea of bait/lure being contained above ground where it might be quickly detected; given i am not in a high coyote population area. I like it over all and just happen to have at least twenty-five feet of the right size pipe already. When I cut to length, I think I will cut at an angle to produce a point and make putting them in the ground easier

Skye, just pound in your driver and wiggle it around to make a pilot hole and then drive the pipe into the hole if you are having trouble pounding them in. That’s what I do for the bamboo because when the ground freezes, it will split on me if I don’t.

I also do not remake my sets inside the catch circle here. We don’t have many fox, and my experience here with coyote remakes is the same as the picture above so I remake my sets on the outside of the catch circle and use the same trap I made the catch in.



If you cut your trap bed right, even with the void underneath, you can stand on the trap and it won’t wobble. You want to cut it just a little too small for the jaws to fit in, and then pound out a spot for the levers to rest on with your hammer. Tap the sides of the trap bed with your hammer until you can force your dog side of your trap into the bed. Then, you can tap your loose jaw in with your hammer. I wish everybody could’ve seen Jim Cundiff bed that trap in Carmen Stadium and they would realize how rough you can actually be with a trap when you’re bedding it.

Good idea! Thanks

I have but see no advantage in it........again, a couple sets, sure why not. But with 100 or more I'd rather use that second pipe down the road, same as traps.

MZ

Skye...you really need to read the articles........sure, if you need to categorize a set and put it in a bucket......put it in flat sets! One student told me its an "above ground" dirt hole. The pipe is just ONE component......the grass covering, steel screen, super-deep bed, hammer bedding method........THAT is what makes it a Pipe Dream, a set that gives us ALL a chance in the crappy weather most of us fight annually.

If you read everything, you will see that I made ALL sets this way pre-pipe (except hole sets) whether grass tuft/post set, T-Bone, Bamboo, Grab and Die, etc. In other words, the deep bed, screen, hammer method, grass covering.......the PIPE was the final change to the set that I think made it a complete approach OR a large part of a possible approach!

About the dirthole......guys ask "Why not make the dirt hole the same way" meaning the bedding method. Makes sense in theory, but to ME, why dig a hole and put your stink BELOW ground unprotected when you can simply pound a pipe in (again, the bulk of it being underground!) and have your stink above ground BUT in a protected vessel. If you put lure in a dirthole and get 4 inches of rain, you probably re-lure thinking the stink has washed away/or been watered down. With the pipe, your stink stays protected, and even after 4-inches of rain, I guarantee you that a quick sniff will prove to you that its still working for you. As trappers, we don't give the canids enough credit for their noses. We've all returned to sets in the spring and seen holes still being dug at.....leave a pipe in all year and see what happens to it!

Every year, more people are trying this and having success. I know some VERY good trappers that have honestly switching 100% to it.....sold their drills and augers! Not saying to do that, but once you make them AND MAINTAIN them compared to other sets AND see success that others have seen......you MAY start laying more pipe than you expected!

MZ

Zagnan: I am sold on the concept. Putting it in a category was just my way of understanding it in the overall picture. I really like the idea of the bait/lure being above ground where scent dispersal should be greater. The bedding method is similar to what I do now so The the exception of the use of grass clippings. I have been collecting and storing grass clippings for sometims, so am ahead there. I recently read your article in IT magazine as well as listening to your interview on Trapping Radio. I appreciate your sharing the information as we learn from each other.

Was happy to meet Jim this year at Don Powell's Minkfest......AND I got to see him bed a trap. Pretty cool.....it seems he no longer uses the wooden pegs as shown in his book. He showed how he does it now and when you see it, it's like DUH!

Their is one main difference that I think is noteworthy about our hammer bedding methods: I pound all around the trap, pinching it in place, but dirt is ONLY touching the outside of the jaws. NO dirt is touching INSIDE of jaws.

With Jim's method, he hammers out his bed and then puts puts the loose jaw on top of dirt and POUNDS loose jaw into the dirt, really locking it in place by having dirt on BOTH sides of the loose jaw. ROCK SOLID.

Guys always ask me about freezing ground and how it would affect my set. I am convinced since NO dirt on top of jaws, even if outside jaws are touched by frozen dirt, when trap triggers the jaws are ALWAYS going inward and AWAY from frozen dirt. I just haven't seen where if PAN can go down, jaws don't come up. NOW....if we have two inches of ice or several inches of snow, trap probably wont go off in first place!

As I look at both methods (Jim's and mine) I DO think mine might have a little better chance in frozen ground than his, with dirt on only one side vs both. BUT, to his credit, the "power" jaw only is pinched with dirt on OUTSIDE so maybe it still works just as good.

Probably can't go wrong either way..............

MZ

FWIW, Jim no longer power beds his traps with nails. He cuts a small trap bed with a void under it and forces his trap into the bed and pounds his loose jaw in with a hammer. His bedding method is just like the pipe dream bedding method only I think he still covers with dirt instead of grass. It is very easy using this method. Set the trap, put your hand under the pan so it cannot go off and force the trap into a small trap bed. It will be rock solid every time, and you can stand on it if you want to and it will not wobble. This is the method Jim did his demo on in Carmen Stadium.

Coon from this morning at bamboo pipe. Lone fence row WAY away fro. Cover...amazing how far they roam around here.
Pipes work.
Jim