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Re: Virginia: National Guard Responds [Re: white17] #6703737
12/23/19 04:44 PM
12/23/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 119
AK
B
Bushwhack Jack Offline
trapper
Bushwhack Jack  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 119
AK
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack


Thanks for the clarification. I have heard of the Gun Owners of America. I'm sure they are a good organization, but explain to me how they are supposedly the saviors of the Universe, when hardly anybody has heard of them, or anything they have done, and the NRA has spent fortunes on helping protect the second amendment.



I will assume you remember the Heller decision in 2008 and the McDonald decision in 2010

Heller was brought to SCOTUS by GOA and McDonald by SAF ( Second Amendment Foundation)

NRA did file an amicus brief ..............eventually...........supporting GOA.

Here's a bit of the history from that time.

National Rifle Association (NRA)

"Attorney Alan Gura, in a 2003 filing, used the term "sham litigation" to describe the NRA's attempts to have Parker (aka Heller) consolidated with its own case challenging the D.C. law. Gura also stated that "the NRA was adamant about not wanting the Supreme Court to hear the case".[55] These concerns were based on NRA lawyers' assessment that the justices at the time the case was filed might reach an unfavorable decision.[56] Cato Institute senior fellow Robert Levy, co-counsel to the Parker plaintiffs, has stated that the Parker plaintiffs "faced repeated attempts by the NRA to derail the litigation."[57] He also stated that "The N.R.A.’s interference in this process set us back and almost killed the case. It was a very acrimonious relationship."[6]

Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's chief executive officer, confirmed the NRA's misgivings. "There was a real dispute on our side among the constitutional scholars about whether there was a majority of justices on the Supreme Court who would support the Constitution as written," Mr. LaPierre said.[6] Both Levy and LaPierre said the NRA and Mr. Levy's team were now on good terms.[6]

Elaine McArdle wrote in the Harvard Law Bulletin: "If Parker is the long-awaited "clean" case, one reason may be that proponents of the individual-rights view of the Second Amendment – including the National Rifle Association, which filed an amicus brief in the case – have learned from earlier defeats, and crafted strategies to maximize the chances of Supreme Court review." The NRA did eventually support the litigation by filing an amicus brief with the Court arguing that the plaintiffs in Parker had standing to sue and that the D.C. ban was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment.[58]

Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, had indicated support of federal legislation which would repeal the D.C. gun ban. Opponents of the legislation argued that this would have rendered the Parker case moot, and would have effectively eliminated the possibility that the case would be heard by the Supreme Court.[59]

Immediately after the Supreme Court's ruling, the NRA filed a lawsuit against the city of Chicago over its handgun ban, followed the next day by a lawsuit against the city of San Francisco over its ban of handguns in public housing.[60]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller It's Wiki so you have to be suspicious of everything they produce, but it's a place to start



Hey White17,

Yes I do recall/remember the Heller case. It was like 10 years ago right? I seem to recall the NRA being heavily involved in it and supporting it. I apologize to all the members who are opposed to the NRA and my comments. I don't like to divide the hunting/trapping/fishing community. I would actually like to work together to find common ground. I'm just not buying all this information that somehow the NRA is pro gun control and against the 2nd amendment. I personally believe this is all misinformation, but to each his own I guess. If the NRA is such a horrible organization, then why are the liberal democrats so opposed to the NRA and everything it stands for? Whenever there is a school shooting and the liberal democrats start screaming for more gun control, who do you see rise to the defense of the 2nd amendment. I seem to recall Wayne Lapierre and the NRA making speeches and calling for more armed guards and armed staff/teachers in schools to defend kids, rather than calling for more gun control. I never hear of anything the Gun Owner's of America are doing. In fact, I have never once heard a democrat complain about the lobbying or the political influence of the Gun Owner's of America. Go ahead and send your money to the Gun Owner's of America if that is what your conscience is telling you, but as for me, I'm sending my money to the NRA. And until I see them misusing my money or changing their position on the 2nd amendment, I will continue to do so. No disrespect to others on here who disagree with me and I apologize if I've offended anyone. I have a tendency to do that sometimes. I'm not always the greatest with words when I believe strongly about a position. Cheers to all and Merry Christmas.

Re: Virginia: National Guard Responds [Re: Finster] #6703740
12/23/19 04:54 PM
12/23/19 04:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,142
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,142
williamsburg ks
Democrats dont talk about g.o.a. because they don't want you to join. Democrats know the nra is pro gun control, as would anyone who did any research at all, so they throw it out there to get gun owners to send their hard earned dollars to scammers.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Virginia: National Guard Responds [Re: Finster] #6703747
12/23/19 05:09 PM
12/23/19 05:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
GOA is still in the courts with the bump stock issue that we got rammed down our throats thanks in part to the NRA.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Virginia: National Guard Responds [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #6703749
12/23/19 05:10 PM
12/23/19 05:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,281
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,281
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack
Originally Posted by white17



I will assume you remember the Heller decision in 2008 and the McDonald decision in 2010

Heller was brought to SCOTUS by GOA and McDonald by SAF ( Second Amendment Foundation)

NRA did file an amicus brief ..............eventually...........supporting GOA.

Here's a bit of the history from that time.

National Rifle Association (NRA)

"Attorney Alan Gura, in a 2003 filing, used the term "sham litigation" to describe the NRA's attempts to have Parker (aka Heller) consolidated with its own case challenging the D.C. law. Gura also stated that "the NRA was adamant about not wanting the Supreme Court to hear the case".[55] These concerns were based on NRA lawyers' assessment that the justices at the time the case was filed might reach an unfavorable decision.[56] Cato Institute senior fellow Robert Levy, co-counsel to the Parker plaintiffs, has stated that the Parker plaintiffs "faced repeated attempts by the NRA to derail the litigation."[57] He also stated that "The N.R.A.’s interference in this process set us back and almost killed the case. It was a very acrimonious relationship."[6]

Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's chief executive officer, confirmed the NRA's misgivings. "There was a real dispute on our side among the constitutional scholars about whether there was a majority of justices on the Supreme Court who would support the Constitution as written," Mr. LaPierre said.[6] Both Levy and LaPierre said the NRA and Mr. Levy's team were now on good terms.[6]

Elaine McArdle wrote in the Harvard Law Bulletin: "If Parker is the long-awaited "clean" case, one reason may be that proponents of the individual-rights view of the Second Amendment – including the National Rifle Association, which filed an amicus brief in the case – have learned from earlier defeats, and crafted strategies to maximize the chances of Supreme Court review." The NRA did eventually support the litigation by filing an amicus brief with the Court arguing that the plaintiffs in Parker had standing to sue and that the D.C. ban was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment.[58]

Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, had indicated support of federal legislation which would repeal the D.C. gun ban. Opponents of the legislation argued that this would have rendered the Parker case moot, and would have effectively eliminated the possibility that the case would be heard by the Supreme Court.[59]

Immediately after the Supreme Court's ruling, the NRA filed a lawsuit against the city of Chicago over its handgun ban, followed the next day by a lawsuit against the city of San Francisco over its ban of handguns in public housing.[60]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller It's Wiki so you have to be suspicious of everything they produce, but it's a place to start



Hey White17,

Yes I do recall/remember the Heller case. It was like 10 years ago right? I seem to recall the NRA being heavily involved in it and supporting it. I apologize to all the members who are opposed to the NRA and my comments. I don't like to divide the hunting/trapping/fishing community. I would actually like to work together to find common ground. I'm just not buying all this information that somehow the NRA is pro gun control and against the 2nd amendment. I personally believe this is all misinformation, but to each his own I guess. If the NRA is such a horrible organization, then why are the liberal democrats so opposed to the NRA and everything it stands for? Whenever there is a school shooting and the liberal democrats start screaming for more gun control, who do you see rise to the defense of the 2nd amendment. I seem to recall Wayne Lapierre and the NRA making speeches and calling for more armed guards and armed staff/teachers in schools to defend kids, rather than calling for more gun control. I never hear of anything the Gun Owner's of America are doing. In fact, I have never once heard a democrat complain about the lobbying or the political influence of the Gun Owner's of America. Go ahead and send your money to the Gun Owner's of America if that is what your conscience is telling you, but as for me, I'm sending my money to the NRA. And until I see them misusing my money or changing their position on the 2nd amendment, I will continue to do so. No disrespect to others on here who disagree with me and I apologize if I've offended anyone. I have a tendency to do that sometimes. I'm not always the greatest with words when I believe strongly about a position. Cheers to all and Merry Christmas.



No actually the NRA initially opposed the Heller suit ( at that time it was called the Parker case) . What NRA wanted was to sue WA DC to force them to change local law. That would have meant the Heller case would not have gone forward.

If the NRA had prevailed we would never have had the Heller or McDonald decisions.


I think what most people are disgruntled about is that the NRA is always ready and willing compromise rather than fight. All that does is guarantee losing at a slower rate.


Mean As Nails
Re: Virginia: National Guard Responds [Re: walleyed] #6703754
12/23/19 05:15 PM
12/23/19 05:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,128
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,128
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by walleyed
Originally Posted by Finster

GOA = Gun Owners of America a huge pro-2nd lobbying group.


HUGE, Fin ?

Not saying you are inaccurate in your characterization but

what evidence is there that GOA are a large membership 2nd amendment group ?

Last I knew while speaking with GOA organizers, their membership numbers

were unknown and a closely guarded secret.

Do you have any hard data that they have a substantial membership ?

w

Not that wiki is a great source but...………
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Owners_of_America


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: Virginia: National Guard Responds [Re: Finster] #6703755
12/23/19 05:23 PM
12/23/19 05:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,751
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
W
walleyed Offline
trapper
walleyed  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,751
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
Thanks for the Information, Finster.

w


"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association
Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters

I Support Non-Resident Trapping



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