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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#6924114
07/08/20 03:33 PM
07/08/20 03:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,339
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
"HOSS"
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"HOSS"
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,339
The Hill Country of Texas
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Now can one of our legal eagles explain why this cannot be argued as precedent in determining when a child is considered an individual with rights?
Duh Hobbie
“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: Leftlane]
#6924120
07/08/20 03:39 PM
07/08/20 03:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,770
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,770
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Now can one of our legal eagles explain why this cannot be argued as precedent in determining when a child is considered an individual with rights?
Duh HobbieExactly!
Must be nice to eat ice cream as fast as you want and not have to worry about brain freeze.
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: warrior]
#6924122
07/08/20 03:44 PM
07/08/20 03:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,770
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,770
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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If life begins at conception don’t let your wife take birth control pills. Those pills cause fertilized eggs to be expelled from her body She doesn't. The eggs aren't anymore a fetus by itself than the sperm is. There isn't any heartbeat indicating a human being. It's the combination of the two that's required to make a human person.
Must be nice to eat ice cream as fast as you want and not have to worry about brain freeze.
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: Yukon John]
#6924170
07/08/20 04:54 PM
07/08/20 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,588
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,588
MN
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Just out of curiosity has anyone ever had a conversation/argument/debate about abortion and then changed their mind? My mind changed although it took many years. In high school I was (ashamed now) on the choice side. Then I got older, got married, and we had kids...I can't imagine after that, having made the decision to "terminate" a pregnancy. I sickens me that it is legal to just choose to end a life, just sad. In my early years I was brought up in the church so my views matched most conservative Christians, slowly those views changed as these things tend to happen. What I'm talking about is a conversation or argument that got someone to change their view on abortion.
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: martentrapper]
#6924211
07/08/20 05:46 PM
07/08/20 05:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Most of my points haven't been touched.
What happened to the guy who started this debate, Martentrapper?
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: martentrapper]
#6924220
07/08/20 05:54 PM
07/08/20 05:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
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so life starts with a heart beat not with fertilization? (sperm and egg combining) the sperm and egg are most definitely combined when they are expelled from the womans body because of birth control pills
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: danny clifton]
#6924228
07/08/20 05:58 PM
07/08/20 05:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
Gary Benson
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
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so life starts with a heart beat not with fertilization? (sperm and egg combining) the sperm and egg are most definitely combined when they are expelled from the womans body because of birth control pills But which comes first, the egg or the sperm?
Life ain't supposed to be easy.
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: martentrapper]
#6924229
07/08/20 05:58 PM
07/08/20 05:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
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P.S. without birth control the egg implants after about 5 days. With birth control about the 5th day it is expelled. By the fifth day it is also multiple cells. no longer a single cell
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: danny clifton]
#6924230
07/08/20 06:00 PM
07/08/20 06:00 PM
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J Staton
Unregistered
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J Staton
Unregistered
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so life starts with a heart beat not with fertilization? (sperm and egg combining) the sperm and egg are most definitely combined when they are expelled from the womans body because of birth control pills Are you sure about that? The source I post is a bit ironic for this thread.... https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-control-pill
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: martentrapper]
#6924231
07/08/20 06:00 PM
07/08/20 06:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
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I just want to know the consensus on when life begins
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: martentrapper]
#6924236
07/08/20 06:04 PM
07/08/20 06:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,912
williamsburg ks
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https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-pills Hormonal contraceptives can also prevent pregnancy by changing the lining of the womb so it's unlikely the fertilized egg will be implanted. that is the most common pill and the woman menstruates. with things like the depo shot menstruation stops and no egg is released.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: martentrapper]
#6924311
07/08/20 07:18 PM
07/08/20 07:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
Gary Benson
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
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Life ENDS when the heart stops beating, so it could be argued that life begins when the heart starts beating, but I think that's at about 7 days or so. I'm not in favor of abortion at all, but it is a point of discussion.
Life ain't supposed to be easy.
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: PAskinner]
#6924369
07/08/20 08:26 PM
07/08/20 08:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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In another thread, James said he supports a woman's sovereign right over her body. I'm sure most all of us can see the sense in each of us having some rights over our bodies. James used the phrase in relation to abortion and a woman's say in that issue. So let's go down the sovereign right road.
Women only are interested in abortion when they are pregnant. How did the woman get pregnant? (This post doesn't pertain to rape!)To voluntarily get pregnant, didn't the woman give up her sovereignty for a few moments? She knew when she consented to the act what the outcome might be. She now has a new life inside her BECAUSE she gave up her sovereignty for those few moments. Why then should she retain that sovereign right over that life inside her. By her own permission, didn't she give equal rights to the man who created that life with in her? We all know that various government entities have laws on what you do with your children and those entities will take your children away if you violate those laws. Government entities also have laws on who has parental rights over children if parents split.
Why shouldn't a woman be subject to the laws of the state she lives in concerning her pregnancy and if she can, or can, not have an abortion?
Let's ignore the obvious answer and pretend states really could pass laws on abortion!
Then, one last question........would any of you, you-too, James, been OK with a woman aborting your child? You don't have any sovereign rights over your body. Suicide is illegal. Think about that. If you can't even legally take your own life, how can you legally take the life of a child inside of you? The legal prohibition on suicide is silly. If the suicide is successful, shall we punish a corpse? If not successful, do we imprison someone who's probably not in his right mind? I may be going out on a limb here, but I'd say the legal prohibition against suicide probably never enters their minds. None of them think to themself, "Oh, no! If I kill myself I'll break the law." The only reason society prohibits suicide is that the subject frightens us. Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: martentrapper]
#6924391
07/08/20 08:40 PM
07/08/20 08:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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You guys want to ban abortion before the woman could even tell she's pregnant, unless she's actively testing for it.
Anyway, the definition ought not to be "what is life?," but instead "what is a human being?"
I think the test for legal abortions ought to be viability outside the womb. That should be the dividing line between fetus and human being. Up until that point, a woman should be able to refuse the use of her body as a vessel for a fetus.
My views are to the right of most left-wing politicians and pro-choice groups.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: A Sovereign Right over your Body
[Re: Dirt]
#6924397
07/08/20 08:43 PM
07/08/20 08:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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The reason suicide is illegal is so we can attempt to stop it. You call yourself a lawyer?  Nah, I don't call myself a lawyer anymore. Explain how a law against suicide helps you stop it. Often a suicide comes as a total shock to loved ones. You have to explain how the suicide law deters suicide, then call me stupid if the answer is obvious. Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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