Re: MN Wolves Moving Farther South
[Re: Trapper7]
#7146835
01/20/21 06:59 PM
01/20/21 06:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580
Duluth, MN
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I don’t know why this topic surprises anyone. Mountt St. Helens had zero wild goats after it erupted in 1980. It now has a population of goats. The nearest wild population is 40 miles away through the forest. Basically zero goat habitat between the two and somehow several made it through that morass to the mountain. Why are we surprised when wolves, a predator that walks all the time, is found “out of range”? ...I mentioned in the past over 20 years ago I took part in a DNR meeting regarding delisting the gray wolf. At that time, the DNR estimated there were about 3700 wolves in the state of MN. Since that time there has been almost no hunting or trapping pressure on the wolf population. Yet, over 20 years later, as you heard on the video they estimate there are 2300 wolves! How stupid do these DNR people think we are? How long do they think they can keep insulting our intelligence?... I’m guessing because no one really knows the population wolves. Also, you have no clue what their margin of error is for either sample. I’m guessing you didn’t ask them either.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: MN Wolves Moving Farther South
[Re: Clark]
#7147135
01/20/21 09:52 PM
01/20/21 09:52 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511
MN
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I don’t know why this topic surprises anyone. Mountt St. Helens had zero wild goats after it erupted in 1980. It now has a population of goats. The nearest wild population is 40 miles away through the forest. Basically zero goat habitat between the two and somehow several made it through that morass to the mountain. Why are we surprised when wolves, a predator that walks all the time, is found “out of range”? ...I mentioned in the past over 20 years ago I took part in a DNR meeting regarding delisting the gray wolf. At that time, the DNR estimated there were about 3700 wolves in the state of MN. Since that time there has been almost no hunting or trapping pressure on the wolf population. Yet, over 20 years later, as you heard on the video they estimate there are 2300 wolves! How stupid do these DNR people think we are? How long do they think they can keep insulting our intelligence?... I’m guessing because no one really knows the population wolves. Also, you have no clue what their margin of error is for either sample. I’m guessing you didn’t ask them either. Do you know what the margin of error is? I do and its a lot as far as I'm concerned. Plus or minus 500. If they think there is any possibility there is only 2200 wolves in this state someone needs to get a new job. Must be better biologists in Wisconsin, their margin of error is plus or minus approximately 30.
Last edited by Steven 49er; 01/20/21 09:53 PM.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: MN Wolves Moving Farther South
[Re: Trapper7]
#7147149
01/20/21 10:04 PM
01/20/21 10:04 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511
MN
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Question for ya Clark or anybody else seeing as you asked us about the margin of error.
Does anyone know that the 2020 Environment and Natural Resource Committee chair lost his election this fall(a Democrat) and was replaced? Does anyone know who his replacement is and his stance on the management of timber wolves? Or more importantly his stance on trapping?
I do and it's not good.
Almost time to move.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: MN Wolves Moving Farther South
[Re: Trapper7]
#7147300
01/20/21 11:25 PM
01/20/21 11:25 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511
MN
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In the era of modern wildlife management being "endangered" isn't an issue.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: MN Wolves Moving Farther South
[Re: Steven 49er]
#7148453
01/21/21 07:03 PM
01/21/21 07:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580
Duluth, MN
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...Does anyone know that the 2020 Environment and Natural Resource Committee chair lost his election this fall(a Democrat) and was replaced? Does anyone know who his replacement is and his stance on the management of timber wolves? Or more importantly his stance on trapping?
I do and it's not good.
Almost time to move. House or Senate? I looked it up and haven’t found any answers. Also, not sure which committee you are referencing. Clue me in.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: MN Wolves Moving Farther South
[Re: bblwi]
#7148464
01/21/21 07:16 PM
01/21/21 07:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,337 Northern MN
Osky
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,337
Northern MN
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A 500 plus or minus from a number like say 3,000 with a territorial, mobile predator species within a state with 84,000 square miles is statistically not a bad guess or number. Now the real issue of say 3,700 or 2300 depends more upon when those numbers were estimated. February or June. There could easily be 30-40% more wolves on the landscape right after pups are whelped then in the dead of winter. Wolf pup mortality is actually pretty high even though the pack creates the heavily protected den areas. If they paired up like coyotes and all the females got bred there would be a ton more wolves out there and being "endangered" would not even be close to an issue.
Bryce I’d be interested to know when the hardest time on the yearly pups is. I would have to believe the guarded den area is just that, and most of the mortality comes at dispersal time later in the year. This would leave wolf numbers pretty strong until later winter maybe? Then bumped back up within a few months with new pups. Not much down time. I could be wrong. Osky Thinking about it Jack aka Gulo would probably have wise input on this.
Last edited by Osky; 01/21/21 07:18 PM.
"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it" Jabless in Minnesota www.SureDockusa.com
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Re: MN Wolves Moving Farther South
[Re: Clark]
#7148817
01/21/21 10:35 PM
01/21/21 10:35 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511
MN
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...Does anyone know that the 2020 Environment and Natural Resource Committee chair lost his election this fall(a Democrat) and was replaced? Does anyone know who his replacement is and his stance on the management of timber wolves? Or more importantly his stance on trapping?
I do and it's not good.
Almost time to move. House or Senate? I looked it up and haven’t found any answers. Also, not sure which committee you are referencing. Clue me in. House committee, Environment and Natural Resource. Take a look at the majority of DFL members on that committee. It isn't good for trappers.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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