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Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173049
02/07/21 07:10 PM
02/07/21 07:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295


Then go watch the musings and show me where the deductions are wrong. Stop talking and start walking.

I am the one looking for attention, huh?


I literally just said masks may not stop the spread of Covid. Not good enough?

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173053
02/07/21 07:14 PM
02/07/21 07:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,370
Pa.
B
Bigbrownie Offline
trapper
Bigbrownie  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,370
Pa.
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Masks are a choice for now. Inform yourself. There is a lot of info out there.


Many places the mask mandate is not a choice, and is enforced with fines. The entire state of Connecticut for one. Many cities across the US also. Masks aren’t a choice either by TSA mandate.


https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending...rus-pandemic/HJ53YMVDYVEGRIVPLRKDXYYXNU/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwicqrms89juAhWxAZ0JHVhNAhkQxfQBMAp6BAgSEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Ftravel%2Fnews%2F2021%2F02%2F05%2Fbiden-cdc-mask-mandate-travel-tsa-announces-fines-offenders%2F4410074001%2F&usg=AOvVaw2ny-WnEtLoLHc0BoHhoV5T

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173056
02/07/21 07:15 PM
02/07/21 07:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,534
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
trapper
NonPCfed  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,534
se South Dakota
Hey, Blaine County, you ever published in a peer-reviewed journal, not counting a law journal?

I have, on both ends of the process, as a lead author and as a reviewer. Not in health or medicine but the process is basically the same. Its a good system, but its still human based and the foibles of people still apply. My research doesn't have big money in play, health and medicine often do. Medical articles are often very short and often done quick, although some are long-term and very extensive, so the context of the research matters. I've dealt with journalists before, they run the gradient of being as smart as your PhDs to being fairly dumb-- can those folks translate what an article is saying in the proper context? Don't know, might, might not. If science is "settled", then why are there hundreds of peer-reviewed journals and more pop up all the time...? 1) because science is supposed to be about "inquiry" and that isn't supposed to end, and 2) journals make money in publishing. The attacks and shaming of any covid remedy besides new drugs and vaccines worth hundreds or millions and billions of $$ smells bad. Big pharma isn't going to make more money on treating covid with cheap, already here meds.

Do you remember the "VA hyrdoxychlorquine study" that helped prove that old drug wasn't any good against covid...? I read that one, all of about 1800 words.It was an example of "data mining" of medical records, the researchers never saw or touched those patients, they just ran their algorithms against certain key terms or words. The researchers were never asked certain specific questions, according to my physician brother, who was a VA doc at the time, that would have provide more context to patient outcomes. Or the journal editors overrode peer-review questions, in most journals we never know if this happens or not. In short articles, there's not enough word space to ask more than a few questions, so again, total context, within reason, isn't fully explored.

There's been more "published" on this one disease in a little over a year's of its "life" than most in decades. Why do you think that is, could it be to give the big money and power grabbing "cover"...? Can't create a cultural of fear and then repression if the evil disease can be beat, especially if caught early and aggressively treated, with generic drugs and treatments. Call me cynically paranoid, that's ok, I'll take that as a badge of honor. Next month I will mark the 1 year anniversary of being kicked out of my office, I been in the building twice since then, and not in months. Last week my county had ONE death attributed to covid. And we're in a state that hasn't had any real lockdowns and civil liberties trampled. No culture of fear and repression created in the last year...? I think not..


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: A week without a mask [Re: trapdog1] #7173062
02/07/21 07:19 PM
02/07/21 07:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 577
Communist State Of New York
Archeryguy Offline
trapper
Archeryguy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 577
Communist State Of New York
Originally Posted by trapdog1
Wearing the blaze orange is a law. Wearing a mask isn't.


NY doesn’t have a blaze orange law. No requirements yet in the 40 plus years I’ve hunted here, I’ve never seen anyone not wearing it during rifle season. Common sense I would guess.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173065
02/07/21 07:20 PM
02/07/21 07:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 11,316
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 11,316
Iowa
This thread has gone off the rails.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173071
02/07/21 07:22 PM
02/07/21 07:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Nope. That is your opinion. I want you to prove the doctors wrong that I based my opinion on.

"May not" is a sissy lawyer's way out.

Like you just said, you are a pro at cross examining people with PhD's.


I saw a guy at a sandwich shop the other day wearing an actual gas mask. Not a respirator but a gas mask. It was bizarre. Will that stop the spread of Covid?

As for me proving the doctors on YouTube or wherever wrong, I am not interested in wasting my time on that. I am watching the BLM Super Bowl and working--and occasionally surfing the net. And, by the way, I have never said that masks stop the spread of Covid. I just think a man of science like yourself could do a better job of presenting his methodology and conclusions.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: Archeryguy] #7173076
02/07/21 07:23 PM
02/07/21 07:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,370
Pa.
B
Bigbrownie Offline
trapper
Bigbrownie  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,370
Pa.
Pa does have blaze orange laws. I don’t live in your state. I was using myself in my area as an example.


In fact, the state requires anyone, jogger, hiker, dog walker etc to wear orange if they enter any of the 1.5 million acres of state owned Gamelands from Nov. 15th- Dec 15th.

Last edited by Bigbrownie; 02/07/21 07:31 PM.
Re: A week without a mask [Re: NonPCfed] #7173083
02/07/21 07:28 PM
02/07/21 07:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by NonPCfed
Hey, Blaine County, you ever published in a peer-reviewed journal, not counting a law journal?

I have, on both ends of the process, as a lead author and as a reviewer. Not in health or medicine but the process is basically the same. Its a good system, but its still human based and the foibles of people still apply. My research doesn't have big money in play, health and medicine often do. Medical articles are often very short and often done quick, although some are long-term and very extensive, so the context of the research matters. I've dealt with journalists before, they run the gradient of being as smart as your PhDs to being fairly dumb-- can those folks translate what an article is saying in the proper context? Don't know, might, might not. If science is "settled", then why are there hundreds of peer-reviewed journals and more pop up all the time...? 1) because science is supposed to be about "inquiry" and that isn't supposed to end, and 2) journals make money in publishing. The attacks and shaming of any covid remedy besides new drugs and vaccines worth hundreds or millions and billions of $$ smells bad. Big pharma isn't going to make more money on treating covid with cheap, already here meds.

Do you remember the "VA hyrdoxychlorquine study" that helped prove that old drug wasn't any good against covid...? I read that one, all of about 1800 words.It was an example of "data mining" of medical records, the researchers never saw or touched those patients, they just ran their algorithms against certain key terms or words. The researchers were never asked certain specific questions, according to my physician brother, who was a VA doc at the time, that would have provide more context to patient outcomes. Or the journal editors overrode peer-review questions, in most journals we never know if this happens or not. In short articles, there's not enough word space to ask more than a few questions, so again, total context, within reason, isn't fully explored.

There's been more "published" on this one disease in a little over a year's of its "life" than most in decades. Why do you think that is, could it be to give the big money and power grabbing "cover"...? Can't create a cultural of fear and then repression if the evil disease can be beat, especially if caught early and aggressively treated, with generic drugs and treatments. Call me cynically paranoid, that's ok, I'll take that as a badge of honor. Next month I will mark the 1 year anniversary of being kicked out of my office, I been in the building twice since then, and not in months. Last week my county had ONE death attributed to covid. And we're in a state that hasn't had any real lockdowns and civil liberties trampled. No culture of fear and repression created in the last year...? I think not..


I have not. I do have more OPINIONS on the peer review model being defective.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173093
02/07/21 07:34 PM
02/07/21 07:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,629
Wi.
D
Diggerman Offline
trapper
Diggerman  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,629
Wi.
Breathing warm moist air into a cotton recepticle, then rebreathing air back through that petri dish, what could posssibly go wrong? wearing masks especially in the winter is just plain, well, stupid. If you want to feel better, get a teddybear.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: Blaine County] #7173127
02/07/21 08:00 PM
02/07/21 08:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,164
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline
trapper
Finster  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,164
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by Blaine County


Now you want after college? I'll be cross examining an expert with a PhD in engineering bright an early tomorrow morning in an environmental case.
Would you maybe provide a hint as to your client? I would like to send a copy of this thread. I feel he should get a refund from one of the most inept "lawyers" I have ever seen in my life and congrat's, you have beaten some stiff competition.

Last edited by Finster; 02/07/21 08:02 PM.

I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: A week without a mask [Re: Finster] #7173310
02/07/21 09:47 PM
02/07/21 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,296
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by Finster
Originally Posted by Blaine County


Now you want after college? I'll be cross examining an expert with a PhD in engineering bright an early tomorrow morning in an environmental case.
Would you maybe provide a hint as to your client? I would like to send a copy of this thread. I feel he should get a refund from one of the most inept "lawyers" I have ever seen in my life and congrat's, you have beaten some stiff competition.


Ha! Aren't you supposed to be planning your imaginary High School?

Re: A week without a mask [Re: Blaine County] #7173350
02/07/21 10:10 PM
02/07/21 10:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,164
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline
trapper
Finster  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,164
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by Blaine County


Ha! Aren't you supposed to be planning your imaginary High School?

Gee, good one. smirk


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173368
02/07/21 10:18 PM
02/07/21 10:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 716
Lakes Region Indiana
L
loosanarrow Offline
trapper
loosanarrow  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 716
Lakes Region Indiana
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
For reference with masks, most of the masks given out by retailers and worn by most people are the 3M type masks that filter particles of 4.0 microns.

The best masks worn in hospitals for average use is made for TB and screens out 95% of particles down to .3 microns.

All respiratory viruses are +/- .1 micron. This includes influenza, cold and........... Covid.

It is the equivalent of trying to catch a golf ball with a net with meshes the size of softballs. Makes you wonder why fauxi is telling people to wear two masks and three is actually better. Hmmmm? Why now? Why not before November? All of a sudden they had an epiphany? All of a sudden they understand measurements?

I see zero use in wearing masks so I am done with them unless asked to wear them by a specific business.

Virologists wear completely contained SCBA suits with air. Wonder why?



You keep talking about those measurements like that is all there is to it. I’ve never heard anyone say masks would stop a free floating, single virus particle. In fact I discussed this with my doctor. I said “I’m hearing virus particles are too small to be caught by masks”. He said “that’s 100% correct. But viruses coming out of your mouth don’t exist like that. They are in DROPLETS, many in a single droplet. And they have an affinity for moisture, they tend to stick to moisture. And they do not survive well when dry due to the fragile nature of their coating (he called it skin, but I knew what he was taking about). And masks catch almost all of those droplets until they are saturated.”
Try this - hold a piece of cloth a few inches over a surface and spray mist from your coyote urine bottle at that surface. Now remove the cloth at look at the difference in the area under the cloth as compared to the rest of the sprayed area.
You are selecting portions of the information that fit your desire to not wear a mask.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173496
02/07/21 11:35 PM
02/07/21 11:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 716
Lakes Region Indiana
L
loosanarrow Offline
trapper
loosanarrow  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 716
Lakes Region Indiana
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Loose, if it was so important it would be a law. Let's be honest.


Didn’t we just discuss circular arguments?

As for pointing fingers, I don’t. Was at local grocery last night and fully 1/4 of the shoppers had no mask.
It does seem reasonable to question the logic of those same people saying masks don’t work since covid is still spreading. That is clearly one easily identifiable circle of thought.

Now on to your “particles of .1 micron never settle”. Again, true. Once they are airborne and free of the droplet. Not until they go airborne.

Which leads me to your next statement, that “Your saliva will dissipate and/or desiccate/dry up. This leaves the virus floating”.
Spit and mucous do not disappear when they dry. They lose the water, leaving a mass of almost glue, in fact it has components of hide glue. This mass would have virus randomly on the surface, and it is possible some of those could break free and go airborne before they are inert if you crush and blow on the mass, but the vast majority will be locked in that clump of dried material. They do not float off when your spit dries.

Yes there are doctors who hold your opinion. And if you search for them you can find them. If you ask any of them I personally know, they hold my opinion. Nurses the same. Like I can’t find one who disagrees that masks have some protection among my local doctors. One of my customers is a dentist, and he says that while he does think they help, he is opposed to mandates or laws as part of his particular brand of libertarian political views.

I’m just not finding your treatment of the science and “common sense” understanding of physics to be very convincing on this one. My intention with my posts is to offer what I believe to be an honest and fair treatment by, if nothing else, presenting the other side. And those reading can decide for themselves. But I do feel inclined in this instance to keep replying when I see what I think is cherry picked or misinterpreted information. In the end, I hope we all are friends, and if that is not possible at least we can say we all support the core of what brings us here, trapping. Brothers and sisters argue, but we are still in the same family as far as I’m concerned. Clearly we aren’t going agree on this one. So be it.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173580
02/08/21 12:48 AM
02/08/21 12:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,764
Iowa
~ADC~ Online content
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,764
Iowa
You all really think you are going to change anyone's mind with all this rhetoric no matter which side you are on? This is as stupid as arguing before the election. What could you possibly be hoping to accomplish?

I just banned all talk of covid from my site. All it does is serve to upset people and make them fight among or ranks. At this point everyone knows there they stand on it and arguing it is a test in futility.

Last edited by ~ADC~; 02/08/21 12:51 AM.
Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173588
02/08/21 01:01 AM
02/08/21 01:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,764
Iowa
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Iowa
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
No just hopefully influence and inform. It has made me search even harder for facts and made me much better informed.


There's so much information out there that no one knows if its factual, you could be as well misinformed as you are informed. It's all what you choose to believe, and by now everyone has chosen a side and will only believe whatever supports their side. There is no influencing or informing anyone one way or another. All that can be done is to further divide a small community of trappers who really need to stick together.

Re: A week without a mask [Re: bowhunter27295] #7173589
02/08/21 01:03 AM
02/08/21 01:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,764
Iowa
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Iowa
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Did your team win the super bowl?


No. There were no winners, only *winners. We're all still friends though.

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