Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7202442
03/02/21 10:05 PM
03/02/21 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
OP
"Callie's little brother"
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OP
"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158
Marion Kansas
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Ive tested it before without cameras. It's kind of the Holy Grail of everything I've ever tested. If I want to really find how good something I've formulated is I test it beside his. Haven't out done his yet. I just started really testing with cameras and wanted to see how they react to his on video so I have a baseline to compare too.
Last edited by Yes sir; 03/02/21 10:08 PM.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7202553
03/03/21 12:35 AM
03/03/21 12:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,526 West Central MN
20scout
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,526
West Central MN
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Impressive, but would it work the same elsewhere as it does in KS? I know population plays a huge part of how coyotes react to different baits and lures but maybe have some testing done in a few other states to see if he's really onto something. Very cool pic!
Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7202649
03/03/21 06:59 AM
03/03/21 06:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 562 Maine
beezmador
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 562
Maine
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Cool pic, love to see some the videos too
Member of NTA, MTA and FTA - keeping up the Fight for our Right to trap
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: 20scout]
#7203033
03/03/21 02:30 PM
03/03/21 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
OP
"Callie's little brother"
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OP
"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158
Marion Kansas
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Cool pic, love to see some the videos too If I get them loaded on YouTube I'll send you the link. Impressive, but would it work the same elsewhere as it does in KS? I know population plays a huge part of how coyotes react to different baits and lures but maybe have some testing done in a few other states to see if he's really onto something. Very cool pic! That's a good point. We have a good population here but we have a lot of food for them therefore hunger isn't as big as a motivation here as some would think. Ours usually carry a good fat covering. I'm not totally sold on the idea because we have a lot of coyotes they are easily caught or lured in. I've seen people talk about good ingredients or baits or sets in areas with less coyotes (and I'm assuming less food) that I've tested here that I would consider low percentage stuff based on my results. I've also seen trappers come from out of state thinking because we have a good population that they would catch high numbers and then leave disappointed. Great trappers can catch great numbers here but every coyote here isn't stupid.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: beezmador]
#7203321
03/03/21 06:47 PM
03/03/21 06:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 7,367 W NY
Turtledale
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 7,367
W NY
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Cool pic, love to see some the videos too Thought it was just me lol
NYSTA, NTA, FTA, life member Erie county trappers assn.,life member Catt.county trappers
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: MattDoyle]
#7205929
03/05/21 09:55 PM
03/05/21 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
OP
"Callie's little brother"
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OP
"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158
Marion Kansas
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So, what is the base meat? Fresh or tainted? Matt Horse. Since it's not my formulation that's all I'll sharing
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Golf ball]
#7206879
03/06/21 06:12 PM
03/06/21 06:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
OP
"Callie's little brother"
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OP
"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158
Marion Kansas
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If you don’t think competition makes a difference try it with low numbers . I’m talking one visit every ten or twelve days . Before my numbers dropped I could put out just about any commercial bait and get it worked every 2 or 3 days . Not so much these days. I understand that if you have less of a population you will have less visits. My thinking on lures and baits its a percentage game. How many that smell it will work the set, what percentage will work it the first visit, what percentage like it so much they will dig for it. Does the percentage change with the population? Also I do quite a bit of side by side testing. I just don't go by " well it got a good reaction by a couple of coyotes. All population have a certain amount of coyotes that are on the bolder side and if you have a lot of coyotes you obviously will have more of the bolder ones. It's not that I don't think population affects how many visits you get, more like population doesn't effect what formulation tests the best for you. If I test 10 lures and then start doing side by comparison tests and one comes up on top, does having a high population invalidate my findings? I will say my experience is only based off my own area and a lot of comparison testing.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7209277
03/08/21 02:57 PM
03/08/21 02:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,946 E central Il
Golf ball
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,946
E central Il
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Yes Sir I think having numbers is too big an advantage in testing a lure to over look that when testing . When I had numbers I would have agreed with you on all counts . Now it’s not just a lack of visits , it’s a lack of interest when they do visit. I’m finding few commercial baits will get a digging response and many times no response or change in stride at all . What I’ve seen the last few years is natural baits such as leftovers from beaver tail oil , deer liver , rat fleshings ground venison scraps ..... the list of possibilities is long and these offerings out performed all others. Sir I’m not saying you are on the wrong track . I’m just saying What I’ve seen since our population has gone down Has changed what I thought I knew about bait .
Last edited by Golf ball; 03/08/21 03:01 PM.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7209632
03/08/21 09:32 PM
03/08/21 09:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447 Monroeville NJ
Jonesie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447
Monroeville NJ
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I am going to throw a curveball here, and just think before you string me up. You may or may not have heard me talk about the 80/20 concept. I figured this out doing Wildlife life control about 25 years ago. Simply put when the season starts, 80 percent will be easier to catch and 20 percent will be harder to catch. Ironically, squirrels were the critters that first showed me this concept. The 80 is the young of the year. stupid and dumb and unpressured for example. the 20 percent is the critters that are going to be harder to catch, the been there done that, and spooky by nature. I have noticed in testing that the same principle stands out. We all know that in the summer and early fall when the population is going to be the highest that there will be more 80's that are going to really check things out and work them. The 20's are there just not seen as quickly because they are outnumbered especially when we are using the loose dirt circles and Dig responses to monitor. As we get into the late-season like now the 80 percents are now low in numbers because they are either on a board drying or have gotten their PHD degrees from close calls and have become the 20 percent. Many of the tests done now are going to be fouled not because the scent or bait is no good, but the plain fact, they have gone through the season and are not going to fall for anything a human has placed there. I won't go into detail but this season I have been doing human scent and coyote reaction studies with cameras. The coyotes are pinpointing where I stood, anywhere from 6 to 14 hours later, and avoiding the scents I have put out yet coyotes worked them 2 months ago. Just something to think about. OK now you can pull the lever and let the floor drop with the rope on my neck LOL
Last edited by Jonesie; 03/09/21 10:48 AM.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7209781
03/08/21 11:11 PM
03/08/21 11:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
OP
"Callie's little brother"
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OP
"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,158
Marion Kansas
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Jonesie That video with the 5 coyotes was first night and I dont think I would have caught any of them that night. Me and the guy who made the bait were discussing the hesitation to work the set the first night and human scent came up. I will say that out of my 300 plus test sets I've put out it seems about 90% of the ones that got worked were on day 3. Very rare to get one worked first night. The third night is way too high of a percentage for it to be by chance and it doesn't matter if it's a single meat base or a 10 ingredient formulation. Spend more time setting and bedding a trap there and it seems the hesitation factor may increase. With that said I do trap some coyotes each year on the first night so it can be done.
Last edited by Yes sir; 03/08/21 11:12 PM.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Golf ball]
#7212073
03/11/21 08:32 AM
03/11/21 08:32 AM
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 104 Ohio
MattDoyle
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 104
Ohio
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I don’t disagree with anything you guys are saying , in fact what you guys have said on here over the years has made me look harder at what I do from year to year. This is why I think my population being lower than say six or seven years ago has made a big difference in responses. As I play with these ( natural ) baits and see a good response it’s hard to tweak them if you will . As an example the response I get from beaver tail chunks from a three year old jar of oil in a pipe tells me not to mess with it. I would love to grind it just to make it easier to put in a pipe , but it works now . I really agree with what you say you noticed on your line. It seems like when you have a larger family group, each individual is more likely to work a set. To me, it seems like a similar response to a dog eating his food as fast as possible when other dogs are in the house vs just casually eating when left alone. Maybe that coyote that absolutely refuses to work the set, or even acknowledge its presence, was always one of the 20 %, but maybe it wasn’t.. ? Maybe if his kin folk hadn’t already been removed, he would be more apt to try to hurry up and get that hidden bait before his brothers and sisters found it. Always more questions than answers. Matt
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7213337
03/12/21 10:55 AM
03/12/21 10:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447 Monroeville NJ
Jonesie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447
Monroeville NJ
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Matt, I call it the competition effect. I really go into detail on it when I am giving deer scent and bait talks to deer hunters, but the same absolute is true with trapping K9 or other furbearers. The larger the family group or population levels and limited source or product, the higher the competition response from, what I call the 80%. The 20% is there hanging back and not noticed unless someone is right there watching. Even still cameras miss it because they are hanging back and letting the others on the bait or lure. Videos will show them though. As the numbers in the group drop for whatever reason, taken by trappers natural death or dispersal of those young ones, then the 20% are easier to see and it gets really frustrating to see them just look at the products or not even pay attention to them even though they have been doing it all along. That's why I like to see my late summer early fall testing, Makes me feel better about my products compared to what I see late winter early spring on the same products LOL With all the states banning Natural deer urine and parts deer scents, I am in the finale test phase of non-natural deer urine/parts scent. I am not looking forward to this as I will be just sitting in trees for a few hours a week from now till August with a video camera just watching the deer work the scents, so I can present to the deer hunter how to use the scents and what behaviors should be seen.
Last edited by Jonesie; 03/12/21 10:56 AM.
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Re: How you test baits
[Re: Yes sir]
#7216202
03/15/21 06:15 AM
03/15/21 06:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,891 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,891
williamsburg ks
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3rd night has always been the best night for me Yes Sir. Been saying that for a long time. I get my share the first and second night but night three is the one. Yes sets that haven't hit for a week or more will catch a coyote. Left in cause its easier to check it than pull it. That 80/20 thing works for coyote and cat sets after 4-5 days too. Some sets will just keep catching every day or two for awhile.
If you want to really get folks barking tell them 80% of cat sets that hit will hit in the first 3-4 days.
I also think your 110% right about using natural and quality components. They are not easy to find and not cheap when you have to buy them. Like Cletus I am a big fan of spoonbill oil. I am hoping this rain gets them up to Osawatomie this year. I have a half quart left. Stuff cant be beat for anything you want fish oil for.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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