Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
#7266875
05/18/21 11:43 AM
05/18/21 11:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,345 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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It's fantasy that green "renewable" energy can replace our current, efficient abundant fuel sources like coal, oil, and gas, not to mention our cleanest and greenest source of energy, nuclear.
Hopes and promises abound that green energy can somehow replace all current fuel sources. How? With wind farms and solar panels. Big tech firms like Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple are touting their pledge to become 100% renewable in less than a decade. Of course, they all remain attached to the "dirty" power grid because they know that the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine.
Battery backup, doesn't that solve the wind and sun issue? No, it doesn't, not even close. If it were the solution, we'd have net zero emissions already. It's been the problem all along for supposed green energy...how to store enough power to maintain electricity when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
This was proven in 2018 when Tesla produced the largest battery cluster storage unit for a wind farm in South Australia. As it turns out, according to Sky News Australia, this massive battery storage unit would only be capable of powering the region for an estimated three minutes, off peck for maybe as much as an hour.
Physicist and engineer Mark Mills, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute explained that it would take Tesla's production plant in Nevada, the world's largest battery manufacturing facility, 500 years to produce enough batteries to power the US for a single day.
It is estimated that NYC alone would have to spend $3 trillion on batteries just to store enough energy for a seven day period. That's twice the metro area's entire GDP.
Batteries are not the answer, nor is sole reliance on wind or solar. I doubt we'll have much success convincing the greenies of that. After all, what's another $3 trillion to them?
A deranged student with a rifle had no problem getting into a school. A student with a bible would have been stopped immediately.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7266879
05/18/21 11:51 AM
05/18/21 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
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waggler
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Besides, where are they going to get all the metals required to build all the storage batteries. I have not yet seen a metal mine that the greenies didn't object to.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: waggler]
#7266884
05/18/21 11:58 AM
05/18/21 11:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,345 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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Besides, where are they going to get all the metals required to build all the storage batteries. I have not yet seen a metal mine that the greenies didn't object to. Good point.
A deranged student with a rifle had no problem getting into a school. A student with a bible would have been stopped immediately.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7266895
05/18/21 12:15 PM
05/18/21 12:15 PM
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Gary Benson
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The only reason politicians allocate $ for green energy is because they get kickback $ returned to them under the table. They don't become millionaires on their salaries.
Life ain't supposed to be easy.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7266900
05/18/21 12:20 PM
05/18/21 12:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,919 Magna, Utah
GritGuy
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This does not even take into account the infrastructure of supply for all these electric vehicles either, making the charge stations across the country is not going to be paid by the battery makers either, the users will suffer that cost ! Be quite some time before there is enough demand for charging stations across the company as electric vehicles for the most part are not capable of doing much beyond shuttling people around !
Going to be sometime before people even get close to having no oil fueled vehicles, let alone straight home or production use of none oil produced or hydro electricity, people don't want Nuke plants all over the country either, they are not so popular with the problems of waste they develop and they take an enormous amount of water to run them.
Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7266909
05/18/21 12:34 PM
05/18/21 12:34 PM
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jeff karsten
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Whatever happened to the hybred vechiles of yesteryear my daughter had one don't remember the year but was a ford Not a bad ride weird taking off with no noise then once in awhile the engine kicked in At a dealership for a service she was told the battery was nearing the end of its useful life 3 grand for a replacement another 2 for new computer to go with the battery basically another thou for getting rid of the old battery and then the labor She traded it in on a Chevy Equinox
olden tyred
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7266913
05/18/21 12:40 PM
05/18/21 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 5,033 Beatrice, NE
loosegoose
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Not yet, they can't. Petroleum products weren't a very good fuel source in their infancy, either. It took a while to get the infrastructure in place (imagine trying to find a gas station in 1920), to build refineries, to learn how to get the raw materials (it took a long time to figure out deep sea drilling and fracking), and to make it efficient (think of the fuel economy of a 1960s vehicle). Electric is the same way....right now it's inefficient, hard to find refuel sources, expensive, we're not good at getti g the raw materials, and they don't last long. That will all change in due time with improvements in technology.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: loosegoose]
#7266966
05/18/21 01:54 PM
05/18/21 01:54 PM
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WadeRyan
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Not yet, they can't. Petroleum products weren't a very good fuel source in their infancy, either. It took a while to get the infrastructure in place (imagine trying to find a gas station in 1920), to build refineries, to learn how to get the raw materials (it took a long time to figure out deep sea drilling and fracking), and to make it efficient (think of the fuel economy of a 1960s vehicle). Electric is the same way....right now it's inefficient, hard to find refuel sources, expensive, we're not good at getti g the raw materials, and they don't last long. That will all change in due time with improvements in technology. You seem to have done some looking into this. My question is what's the difference between mining for lithium or coal?
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7266974
05/18/21 02:10 PM
05/18/21 02:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,096 Oakland, MS
Drifter
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Thorium salt generators would answer much of the problem once perfected. They CAN'T run away. can run on the spent fuel from the other reactors and low enough on radiation to not be able to make a bomb if robbed. They had a working model up and running but it wasn't what they were looking for at the time. They can be made to scale to fit any need. Even made to be mobile. Thorium in an abundant element. One has to wonder how advanced we would be if the money thrown at the green energy had been used for the research on thorium. Salt reactor
Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.
Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: WadeRyan]
#7266991
05/18/21 02:38 PM
05/18/21 02:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,546 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Not yet, they can't. Petroleum products weren't a very good fuel source in their infancy, either. It took a while to get the infrastructure in place (imagine trying to find a gas station in 1920), to build refineries, to learn how to get the raw materials (it took a long time to figure out deep sea drilling and fracking), and to make it efficient (think of the fuel economy of a 1960s vehicle). Electric is the same way....right now it's inefficient, hard to find refuel sources, expensive, we're not good at getti g the raw materials, and they don't last long. That will all change in due time with improvements in technology. You seem to have done some looking into this. My question is what's the difference between mining for lithium or coal? Loosegoose: I'm not so sure we will see those improvements. Physics seems to limit that prospect. Wade: here is ( I think) the original article that Trapper7 has quoted from above. It is quite long but extremely interesting. It also addresses your question on mining https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible
Mean As Nails
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: white17]
#7267007
05/18/21 03:15 PM
05/18/21 03:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,345 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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T7: do you have a link for that info ? I'd like to save it I don't know about the link, but if you google, Brent Smith batteries can't do the job greenies think, you can get it.
A deranged student with a rifle had no problem getting into a school. A student with a bible would have been stopped immediately.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7267008
05/18/21 03:16 PM
05/18/21 03:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,546 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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T7: do you have a link for that info ? I'd like to save it I don't know about the link, but if you google, Brent Smith batteries can't do the job greenies think, you can get it. I'm pretty sure I found it ! Thanks !! Really good info !
Mean As Nails
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7267009
05/18/21 03:20 PM
05/18/21 03:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,345 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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W17, that's a different article, but also very interesting. Let me know if you can't find the article I mentioned by Brent Smith. I posted the condensed version originally.
A deranged student with a rifle had no problem getting into a school. A student with a bible would have been stopped immediately.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7267016
05/18/21 03:46 PM
05/18/21 03:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
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maintenanceguy
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And to charge the batteries you still have to produce the electricity somehow - usually fossil fuels. So you burn the fuel to make the electricity, just like you normally would. You charge the battery with a charger that isn't 100% efficient so you loose a little of the electricity which has to be made up with more fossil fuel, you then use the electricity through a system that isn't 100% efficient. You've now used more fossil fuel than you used before. And... you have all the environmental problems with mining, storing, and disposing of the lithium metal.
I'm not at all anti-battery, anti-electric car, or anti-any-new-technology but I don't see how electric vehicles are better for the environment.
Now, nuclear I like. I carried a lot of firewood as a kid and nuclear beats the heck out of carrying firewood.
-Ryan
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7267022
05/18/21 04:15 PM
05/18/21 04:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,345 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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I have read that natural gas is pretty environmentally-friendly. Fail to see why they don't look into this.
A deranged student with a rifle had no problem getting into a school. A student with a bible would have been stopped immediately.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: Trapper7]
#7267024
05/18/21 04:20 PM
05/18/21 04:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,514 Sandhills Nebraska
Gary Benson
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I have read that natural gas is pretty environmentally-friendly. Fail to see why they don't look into this. Probably too clean in its natural form so it's not profitable enough to refine and jack the price up.
Life ain't supposed to be easy.
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Re: Batteries Can't Do The Job Greenies Think
[Re: white17]
#7267052
05/18/21 05:20 PM
05/18/21 05:20 PM
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Providence Farm
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Lot of power plants have converted to natural gas. It is more environmentally friendly, not as expensive as oil, we have hundreds of years worth of gas BUT...........it's not PC and it works opposite the political goal to INCREASE the cost of energy so that government can ration it and control everything you do. This man understands the green agenda completely.
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