Read Romans 9:22, and it says, "What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?" Many people think this verse teaches that God has made certain vessels for His wrath. But this is not the point of the verse. Reading above, mankind has already experienced God’s wrath. Mankind has fitted himself for destruction. It is God who endures these vessels—vessels who have prepared themselves for destruction because they would not leave their sin and turn to God.

Look at the next verse: Romans 9:23, "And he did so in order that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory." Notice that God elects certain people beforehand for His glory. In other words, before the foundation of the world God chose certain people to be His children in order that He would be glorified (see Ephesians 1:4). It does not say that God chose people to damnation or predestined people to wrath. The Bible never speaks about a double predestination where God elects or predestines some to fire, others to heaven. Those who are under God’s wrath are in that position because they have rejected God. Those that have the righteousness of God are in that position because God has chosen them to be His children.

Why is God so full of wrath? Wrath is petty, an expression of frustration and powerlessness.

His creation did what He made them to do: choose. Why get angry that it didn't go His way?

Jim

Titus 2:11: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."

The grace of God that brings salvation: Grace brings salvation. You don’t go out and “get” salvation; it comes to you and you have the opportunity to receive it.

Has appeared to all men: There is one gospel of grace for all men. God doesn’t have a gospel of grace for some and a gospel of law or self-justification for others. All men find salvation by the grace of God.

Lol hence the problem with you're thought process. It is going Gods way wrath is just the concenqunce for those that make poor choices. No different than spanking my kids when they do what they know they are not supposed to. They have choices but those choices have consequences. I'm not setting them up to fail, rather teaching them to make proper choices while they are young.

Ah, but when you spank your kids, you're not supposed to do it while angry. You only teach them to act out in anger.

Jim

Adding your own interpretation again. Where did I ever say a thing about being angry? Infact I sit then down and we talk about it. Along the line of a question and answer. They fully understand what they did and they knew full well not to ahead of time. They also Understand I'm not angry but rather disappointed and feeling are hurt. That I really dislike spanking and removing privileges.

Maybe it was different in your home.

So wait til you cool off maybe til next day and the kid will probably get a lawyer and get you for a premeditated act of vengeance.

When my sister and I did something wrong my parents got mad usually. Mom had an 18 in. ruler she took to our behinds. I believe it speeded up the learning process.

Providence Farm, we were talking about God's wrath. If your theoretical parent spanks his child while wrathful, your analogy makes sense. Otherwise, there's no likening.

Jim

The bible repeatedly says God is slow to anger. He often speaks of a nations/persons sins being full to the point He must act. God hates sin, it often deals with how other humans are being treated.

You've often brought up of late how how hate and jealousy are petty emotions. I see those emotions being strongest for the ones we love.

I've mentioned before that God inspired Moses to record His attributes in Exodus 34:6-7. James is not the first created to gauge God by the created's standards but it's the other way around. God, as Creator, is the omniscient One, not us.

Some see this world through much different lens and we won't explain why in this lifetime.
Some "see" it.
Some will later.
Some don't.
Some never will.

I'm of the camp that I had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with my regeneration but I won't fight those who say they did. Whether Calvinist or Arminian or somewhere in that mix, it has nothing to do with the core doctrine of Christianity, and countless believers have sought to "figure things out," since Jesus ascended.... and people still seek to figure things out, and my thought is since people are meaning making machines, and divinely designed to be so.... have at it. All good. People make meaning everyday. On God. On coyotes. On fur prices. On kids who do well. On kids who are off the rails. The list is endless.

I won't battle anyone using their noodle and their heart.
Figure out God all Mighty if you can.
And while you're at it, how about the NWO, which I think exists for evil human intent. Period.

Blessings,
Mark

Who's behind this NWO? Who are members of this shadowy group?

I don't believe in it, Mark. I think that NWO is what people who are afraid of change call change.

As for judging God by human standards: some of what you say makes sense. But it's also partly a copout. The Bible says God made humans in His own image. Doesn't His own image include the power to reason, to think similarly to God?

Since He is omnipotent, we can't possibly match Him in mental capacity, to see all He sees, or know all He knows. But even if we can't comprehend the unlimited scope of His mentation, we should be able to follow the essential power of reason that He gave us.

If that's so, then why can't we not judge God, but understand that when the Bible says God was angry, He was angry as we know that emotion. It wouldn't make sense (there I go again) for God to give humans a Bible they couldn't understand and relate to.

Jim

My son wrecked my car on a weekend get away with some friends. I advised him it was not a good idea to go in the first place and was “angry” that he did not heed my advice and went anyway. I let him go. He could have been killed. I suppose I could have went with him and monitored his every move, but I was “angry”.

There is good change and there is bad change. It’s not “change” that is feared.

I guess James wouldn't get angry if his son started smoking crack in his presence...

Only if it was better than the crack he is smoking.

For some reason James your post remind me of a conversation I had with at true believing Flat Earth believer. As one point I discovered I was better off just smiling nodding and walking away. You see he's mind was set and no amount of discussion could make it in. He chose to stay blind and that was his choice.

Similar to leading a horse to water analogy I suppose.

I can not convince myself that a man can survive 3 days in the belly of a great fish, or three men get tossed in a furnace and live, or in a lions den, or the red sea parting, or trumpets knocking down a city wall, or that water world wasn’t a movie

I have to ask, “Why do you have to convince yourself of all those things to believe in a Creator and His gift?”

Men equally as intelligent as Danny believe all of those things.