My first thought was.....that guy needs a bigger sink!! lol

I've washed plenty of dishes, I know many good "men" that wash dishes.

I remember helping my dad take clothes off the clothes line when I was in my teens. He was telling me about how some other guy was giving him grief for doing "womens work" like that. He said he told him sometimes everyone just needs to do what needs doing....like it or not. That made sense to me, and my dad is definitely an old school "mans man" for lack of better term. My mom was just the same, she would help with anything he needed help with if need be whether it was cutting wood, firing up the boiler, whatever.

I guess I think a lot of the issue now is just that lack of willingness to want to and be willing to help one another with anything. Happy trapping! ScottW

It's not about equality. It's about roles. If the man is the head of the household (his proper role), it doesn't mean his wife is lesser than him. She is his help mate, not his slave. Read Proverbs 31. That woman is fulfilling her proper role, and she is highly honored by all. She is in no way inferior.

... I just scrolled this and didn’t read most of it cause I’m lazy... but from what I gathered .. most of the problem could be easily solved with a pigin string ... jerked down britches and a bare butt whippin with a hard back copy of the King James Version lol

Didn't read the thread but going by the topic my answer is social media. Too easy to contact someone secretly.

Ego has much to do with it. As a country, we stopped putting others first. When two people are putting each other first it makes for a string bond. I think (Paul to) Timothy said something about "lovers of themselves and no natural affection"

You might be referring to Paul's 2nd letter to his young protege Timothy, who was urged to teach truth and love well among the Ephesians where he lived. Timothy was a young man at the time.

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 2 Tim 3:1–5.

The last days refers to the time between the first and second coming of Christ (now).

Blessings,
Mark

This went right to my heart.

God hates it but he gives us free will. Mine was all me. God forgave me for it and I am living free now. Good job being a Dad. Those things are things we never figure on having to put up with much less have to try to fix for the kids.

My Folks were like that. They did what needed to be done when it needed to be done. My wife is like that too. She is the Proverbs 31 woman- every line of it. I wish I was half as good as she was.

I like doing dishes in the morning. Since Kelli is pregnant she needs the help and I need to pitch in since she is taking one for the team here. We both do the housework, mow, firewood, garden, everything. She can't get around very well now so she's been suffering through my cooking. I have arthritis and it makes my hands feel good to do the dishes.

Just a few points that come to mind:

A great marriage is not the result of "finding" the right person, it's far more about being the right person
Good sex is the result of a good marriage, never the other way around. A good relationship is never the result of good sex.
Every marriage no matter how bad it has gotten, can be worked out and made into something wonderful if both partners are willing to work at it and change
It's no one else's responsibility to make you happy! If you went into a relationship thinking your partner is going to make you happy, you've set yourself up for failure
Love is a choice. Period. There are times we need to choose to love our spouse even when they are very unlovable. Marriages go through hard times and if you learn to improve from them, it gets better from them.
Marriage is NOT a 50/50 relationship! There are times you will need to give 100% and there are times your spouse will. Always be willing to give that 100% because the best marriages are between two people who are trying to give 100% all the time, never 50%
Your spouse cannot read your mind! Speak the truth in love

I'm sure I could come up with more, but that's what I have learned from being with one woman for a lifetime. We were young and stupid (20 and 18) and had to learn a lot of things the hard way, and nothing but commitment got us through in the hard times and the good times are oh sooo good. Don't quit. The reasons the divorce rate is so high is because people are selfish and quitters.

I realize there are extreme difficult cases like some people mentioned in this thread but let's face it, 99.9% of divorces not like those extreme cases, they are just caused by people who were too selfish to work it out. And the kids suffer immensely don't try to fool yourselves.

I do my share of dishes too and have no problem with it. Pretty sure my wife appreciates it too. I think it's best to consider marriage as "a state of mutual help" (That's a Berry quote, and if you want to explore the idea of marriage and gender roles, here's a good read: https://religioustech.org/wp-conten...ll-Feminism-the-Body-and-the-Machine.pdf). It's also helpful to have something to "work toward" or DO together (as a couple and as a family, assuming you've got kids). When you're on a "mission" as a family, you need each other, and you have to learn to rely on and help each other. You'll have to learn to put aside your desires in order to meet someone else's needs. If you can't do that, then marriage is going to be very hard for you.

The original post suggested that women didn't want to accept their role as wife and mother. This isn't true for everyone, but I think it probably is true and common and is certainly problematic. However, I think it's also very true and very common that men don't want to accept their role as husband and father. Sometimes (a lot of times, actually) being a good husband and father involves dealing with dirty dishes and dirty diapers. It means you need to be willing to put away the boyhood notions of mancards and mancaves, then do the manly thing and help your wife. The word "husband" is, believe it or not, derived from the words "house-bound".

It was also mentioned that there seems to be a general dearth of high-quality young men these days. All I can say is that if they aren't out there, it must be because we aren't creating them. I think a paucity of good sons implies a paucity of good fathers. If we want to change that, then we need to take it seriously and be intentional about doing something different. We need to be examples and teachers to our children. Word and deed. A good starting point involves having a realistic and healthy perspective on life, so I'll end by pointing to Richard Rohr's 5 Rules for Manhood as something you should remember for yourselves and teach your sons.

Life is hard.
You are not that important.
Your life is not about you.
You are not in control.
You are going to die.

The link below shows birth rates in the USA from early 1900s to 1960, Note the big drop even before the depression started and continued until the end of WW 11 even though it inreased during the war over the depression. By 1944 12 million US men were in service so a lower birth rate would be likely. The lower charts show marriage and divorce rates. Notice that when marriages spike so do divorces. As stated the more marriages the more divorces. We don't seem to be in a widley different pattern today than in the past with the exception of the 1950s and 60s. The lives of women since WW11 have changed considerably. I doubt many women with children don't want to be mothers but want to also connect with the other aspects of our society and culture. With more and more women getting higher ed degrees more can care for children on their own if they choose to.
There is not the need or desire for many women today to be subservant to men. Women tend to identify more with the love given by God then the fear and that has been addressed a bit in the thread. I don't see choosing love over fear as a bad thing, it just results in different cultural expression which can take time to get used too. Also Religious and spiritual aspects of our emotional up bringing many times are quite different then the hereditary and genetic backgrounds we have and this can really cause issues for society and genders as well. I was fortunate to work for 37 years in a profession where compensation was based on experience, qualifications and ability not gender. I also had the experience to be raised for 14 years by a mother during and after being abandoned by her husband and our father, which also creates a very different perspective on who takes on responsibilty and who does not.
https://history.stackexchange.com/q...d-marriage-impact-on-us-homefront-during

Bryce

i've been waiting a long time for those papers to be served. Fifty-two years, I guess.

I think I've seen some good advice on here. not much, but some.

Wimmen don’t see the humor in the 3 Stooges….they are definitely wired different.

Nessy - you are going too far with that comment about the 3 Stooges. My wife of 40-some years has always loved them. Part of the total package.

Willy...you found a rare one ! She's a keepah

Amen and Amen

The number 1 and leading cause for divorce is " Marriage "

Nessy - thanks, I think so too. You seem to have done very well also.

We both think that we married up as the saying goes. At this point, we are both outdated and past our sell by date. If we split up we would just end up back together anyhow. Way back in the dark ages, when she told her family that we got engaged on Christmas Eve, her mother said “I thought you were friends.” Ha! (We were and are best friends.)