There Is another thing that should be considered when we are talking wood versus wire.

When I take a wire dried coon hide and heft It and bend It back and forth you will get that crinkly sound and feel. On wood you don't get that sound or feel. Does the heavy fuller hide mean It's better?

Did the wire dried hide dry out to much where the quality of the leather will be compromised when being tanned. I know when a hide Is dried to fast with to much heat that the leather will be harmed.

When it comes to groney It probably makes no difference. But If your fur goes to the auction house It just might.
I know for a fact that It makes a difference when rats are graded. A rat that Is marginal as to making the next grade size It just might make it If It has the heavier feel.And rats are graded by weight.

In my opinion and that of some top graders In the Industry tell me that you can't over stretch a hide. And I think I'll take their word for It since they actually physically handle Millions of hides per year.
Lots of things to think about.

i like both ways but i think the wood does a better job an a nicer pelt

You make some very valid points beav. I just don't know how a rat could possibly weigh more boarded versus wire. Mass is mass unless the moisture content is higher with the boarded rat in which case one could have slippage and taint if not dressed in a timely fashion. Interesting to say the least.

I have seen rats scraped too hard and turned into papers kina in what beav is talking about rats and weight and all. the humidity is so bad here depending on the temperature I either have to use a window unit or electric heat to dehumidify with . the possums have been really thick nice leather this year on a side note.

I agree with the scraping but if two rats are scraped the same and they weigh the same before wiring or boarding they should weigh the same after being removed from the stretcher or board. The only way one can weigh more than the other is if one isn't as dry as the other.

The problem I see Is one hide being TOO dry.

Funny thing about dried fur. My son In law hung two stretched and dried beaver hides on the cabin wall (outside) and they have hung there for over 4 years and shoew no signs of sliping or rotting. Go figure.

I stretched a bunch of rats on wood the other day I ran out of wood so I did the last few on wire. After 4 days of hanging In the same area the wood rats look and feel way heavier then the wire rats. I haven't weighed them.
Is It maybe because the wire creats a constant pressure on the drying hide while the wood dosen't creat any tension.Does that thin the leather while drying? I know that happens on edges of a beaver hide.
It's the same with coon hides when you compare them.

Interesting.........Wouldn't logic than tell us that the wood rat has a higher moisture content than the wire rat, espeacially if they both weighed the same before being put up?.............I know what you mean with the beaver. When I trapped the higher humidity of the deep south, beavs always dried differently than the ones finished up here. Up here they tend to crack along the edges as they dry but in the south I didn't notice it happening. Humidity obviously plays a roll too.

This doesn't have as much to do with wood vs wire as it has to do with putting up fur in general. Here's my story:

back in the season of 2007/2008 I trapped 217 coons. Put up every single one except for 1 (a fisher coon). I waited to sell at the last Missouri trappers association auction. Figure I could get a good price and I'd get a picture
with all my fur put up. I did get the picture but didn't get a good price.

Coons went well all day, when they got to mine the bids were real low. I no sold alot of stuff and ticked alot of people off. I was devistated all my hard work had ended up like this. I talked to alot of guys and they told me it was my put up job and that it was just ok.

I kept my coons and a few weeks later went to see a friend in the black hills of south Dakota. I brought those coons with me and showed them to 3 different buyers along the way. They all said two things.

1. You have a lighter coon than we do.
2. What a great put up job you did! Your coons look great!

So this is what I figured happen. Missouri buyers see more coon than south Dakota buyers. So they see more coon put up jobs than sd buyers. But they're still selling coons to the same foreign buyers aren't they? In the end I question if the put up job is that important? Obviously you need to meet the standards, no dirt, ect. But you don't have to be able to eat off of them, though the coons at the mo auction going for top price were this clean. I question how that was working out for the buyers.

I don't under stand how a coon dried on wire can be taken off and pit on wood and it instantly grows another size. And from what I've read so far wood gives a more uniform look due to it not bending in like wire. So if a pelt is narrower on wire due to the wire bending in then you put it on a wider wood stretcher you can gain length? If you take a sock it is long and skinny and put it on a basket ball it will loose length not gain it same as a coon. If you have your wire stretchers properly taken care of the pelt will be uniform as well. The only time my pelts are not the same is when I have differant lengths to gether. When I bag my coons to sell I keep them with eaqual sizes to make it easier for the buyer to check them.this argument is pointless it's personall pereferance when ya get down to it.

THIRSTY I ran that MO sale for 9 years. Might not be the heaviest coon but the PUT UP was amazing almost seemed like a contest on who had the best looking PUT UP coon.

Tim Reed

Thirsty,
The quality and appearance of a persons put up is very important at the Missouri auctions. When the buyers stand there all day and see several thousand coon come past them the ones that look the best are gonna get the most attention. The Missouri auctions are known for well handled fur, especially coon. We were at a NTA convention a few years ago and we were having a cold one late one night with a well known Iowa fur buyer. He had never been to one of our auctions. He said that Missouri auctions are well known for it's high percentage of "perfectly" handled fur. Kinda made us feel good.
Back to the original topic. I switched from wire to wood last year. My wife, who knows nothing about fur, came in the fur shed last year and said that my coon looked "different". I asked what she meant. She said, "the skin looks thicker". I have to agree. Same coon, better appearance. I sold coon at 2 of our auctions last year and I topped both sales. I never did that with wire. You can argue the wood/wire thing forever. Trappers are independent folks and each has their own style. To each his own I reckon.

I was putting up some coon last night and came to this conclusion. I like the uniform shape of the wood but the speed of the wire is hard to beat. I am going to try to make a board that will slide up in the wire to keep the Nafa or Fha form but still have the speed of the hooks. This will allow you to get the max length without overstretching and sacrificing width.
When I come up with something I'll post it.
Chad

I confess I am a vise grip using staple gunner!

Simple math: 200 coon catch, the grade drop is $6 (xxxl $24, xxl $18, xl $12)you get the idea, and 4-6 bucks is the typical grade drop

if you boost 25 percent (50 coons) of your catch up one grade in size using wood over wire (very typical percentage)you net 50 coons x $6 = $300

I have sold more coon than the average trapper and more than some of the above average guys. I have sold locally and shipped to the Canadian auctions back before it was cool (early 80's)

I have put up fur this way since 1978 and have never over stretched a coon even using a vice grip. You can't make a XL into a XXL, but you can get a coon that's a 1/4" shy of a XXL into that lot.

I have never had a buyer look at one of my coon and say "that's overstretched" and down grade it. And the stuff i sent to auctions i again never had any down grades for overstretch or anything other than pelt quality. Had enough of them go thru in the high end lots to also tell me it's not an issue.

Dave, you are someone I very much respect so don't take this as an inflammatory post! But you are over analyzing things and trying to be way too good of a guy. I lay a product in front of a buyer, and i want top dollar for my product. It's up to him to offer what he's willing to pay for it.

He can see the pelt, he can see the put up, there is no such thing as false length. It is what it is.

He will make his bid accordingly, and again i've not sold any appreciable numbers of coon the last three years, but i don't think the market's changed that much.

it's just too cold out side and we are all playing on the computer.

Hope you all have a great 2010, i am going to check my two mink traps and three snares i have set!

LH

Larry, I also have a great deal of respect for you as well but what I am portraying is not my thoughts but rather those of a man who I am sure has handled more fur and dealt with more foreign markets than anyone on here hands down. If he tells me a coon can be over stretched there is no one else with the experience to tell me differently. The man has been doing this since before most of us were born and knows the ins and outs of the fur industry as well or better than anyone. I have personally been at their facility and watched foreign garment makers going through lots and trust me they are VERY particular about what they are paying for.

Cool

I just want every dollar i can get when i put up my fur, and i'm going to put it the way it takes to do that. if i thought for an instant putting them up on wire would gain me a dollar i would do it.

I know i gain a grade on 20-30% of the coons i put up on wood over wire. When there is some money in the coon game that really adds up. And if i have to push a few to get it so be it. I am going to put out the best, most marketable product i can.

Fur is no longer a significant portion of my income (o last few years) and hasnt' been for several years, but i still remember sweating that fur check! I wouldn't be sitting in the living room i am today if it wasn't for my fur check from 1986, check came in from the Auction house with two days to spare or the deal was going to fall thru!)

They are too much work to let go for a penny less than you can get for them as no one would know better than you.

Far too many buyers come up with a story to knock a percentage of coons down a grade, that's how they make their money.

Nothing wrong with that it's business. If i have a good idea of what tops is, i will know my average before i walk in the door to sell. If he meets my average i'm going to sell. If he down grades a bunch of hides to lower the average we are going to negotiate or i'm going out the door.

And i have never had a buyer look at me and say "these are overstretched"

Different perspective, you care about the Fur Buyer and respect him. Must be a good guy, and i have never dealt with them or know the folks you do. But based on your statement i would definitely check him out if i was marketing fur.

I always looked at the situation and still do as an adversarial situation. He wants what I've got (hides), i want what he's got (cash) and both of us want the best deal for each of us

Just perspective, keep warm!

There is no reason you cant get that extra 1/4 or 1/2 in to make a coon the next grade on wire stretchers. All it take is a couple clothes pins, simple and easy. I am a rookie coon finisher but have already figured that out.

BigT

I respectfully disagree

you are on the right track and that clothespin trick is a good one

I wish you lived closer so i could hands on show you what is being discussed and it would make a lot of sense to you.

Where you at in NW IA? i pheasant hunted Storm Lake area last year

Looked like good fur country out there, there were traps at quite a few of the bridges i checked out (can't resist that)

Saw rats swimming in the daylight at most of them to boot, i was surprised at how many. Didn't come out this year, went to KS instead

Hi Larry, I am just North of Storm Lake about an hour. Same looking terrain though. Not great coon country but good water trapping in general. I have had to put a couple coons on wood this year due to torn bellies and such and I will agree that they do look better on the wood, BUT I do not want to take the time to put them all on wood. The wire is very fast and no messing around with pins. We are a Groenewold buying station and wire is good with them so it is good with me!!

I was just south of you hunting last year

Not much wood out there, i can understand the lack of coon!

Each to his own, that's the beauty of this great land!

Keep warm.