I plan on building a cabin. I build lots and build lots of log furniture too. so it should be fun, I have lots of help!

I have 2 main questions.

What to do about the foundation?
I have seen people put the cabin on rocks, on cinderblocks or even on a full cement foundation
I want a dirt floor so I dont have to build a wooden floor.
Dont want tooo big of a project b/c this will be done on weekends.

I plan on making it about 10x10 around there, with a bunk and wood burner, going to use it for hunting too

How long would a log last if I just sat it on the ground? what if I treated the bottom logs, say with sikkens.

I plan on cutting a small quad trail into the cabin, but dont want to bring in too many extra man made supplies, like cinder blocks, metal roofing etc.


For the roof I was going to place small poles every foot and cover roof with 10mm poly, then try and cover that with moss, or dirt and grass seed, sound good? any suggestions?

Unless your talking about an 8 x 8 cabin or something, I would think the amount of work required would make a wood floor worthwhile...Bury some railroad ties as posts and build a floor on those...

I have built many cabins and buildings, a lot of them can be seen at www.grizzlycreeklodge.ca I wouldnt do any of the things you are talking about, dirt floor, sod roof. Logs and moisture dont go together, it doest take long for them to start rotting. I build PWF pads and build up from there. remember this, your building is only as good as the foundation and roof. It doesnt take long to build a small cabin right, so why build one that wont last? In my mind if its worth doing its worth doing right. Sorry for this tirade! I like well made cabins! much easier and enjoyable to spend time in and I have spent my share of time in ones like you are describing and I will take a tent anyday! Get Tom Walkers log building book, its the best ever written.

yukon said what I was thinking,...only better

Ditto! Ditto ! Ditto !

I agree, I was just hoping what I thought was the right way to do it was overkill, and that sod roof and logs on the ground would be ok

So, what is this PWF pad

and is it something I could do way back in the bush?

What about cinder blocks every 6ft or so?


What would you guys recomend on the roof then?

Tin roof if you can get it to site
Rectangle is more handy room wise than a square building of the same size
Good luck on the project rewarding when you have yor feet up in a well prepared/built cabin
Dan'l

For a cabin that will last a long (longer then you) time, the other suggestions are relevant.
If you want to do something fairly quickly, with little help and expense, your original idea is fine. I've stayed in several dirt floor, sod roof trapping cabins in the past. Once the floor dries, they are workable. Sure, the logs will rot over time.
One thing tho. Your roof poles should be close together, as in side by side. Then cover with poly tarps and then sod, dirt, moss, etc.
Dirt/sod roofs are more prone to catching fire. Have the stove pipe go well above the center pole.
mt

Ok thanks very much marten trapper!

I was thinking after watching and reading about dick proeneke

He used gravel, I could build the cabin near a stream and make where my logs will sit I could dig a trench and fill it in with gravel, that would maybe slow the rotting

I also have an alakan mill and big saw, going to have to make a door to

Streams are bad! Overflow in the winter can fill your cabin.

Stay away from the water. Get up on a knoll where the water will run away from the building.

A lot depends on the type of soil you are dealing with. Is it gravely, or silty or permafrost or..........??


If you have a mill and a good saw, cut some 1 inch boards for a floor and a roof. For the roof you'd only need a ridge pole and two purlins overlaid with 1 inch boards. For a place the size you're talking about you could get by with 8-9 foot inch boards for the roof. Plenty strong, especially covered with metal roofing. The roof should provide more than adequate coverage of your log corners. If you can keep them dry the cabin will last a very long time.

If you have access to gravel, here's a suggestion. Haul in 1 or 2 bags of cement and make some pier blocks to set your sill logs on. OR, take your fuel in 5 gallon cans. As they empty, cut the tops out and fill with gravel to use as pier blocks. Be sure to punch holes in the bottoms so they drain.

Think bigger. 12x16 is ok for two people and easy enough to heat. Have you thought about windows ? Shutters for the windows ? Bears like windows.

Here's something to think about: maintenance.
My first fall at the trap line, we arrived only to find that a wolverine had dug down into the sod on the roof, almost getting through the planks underneath - almost into the cabin!
I had to remove loads of moss and dirt in order to replace the ripped tarp. Then I had to put all the dirt and moss back on the tarp.
After all that was done, I had to clean up all the dirt, pine needles, moss, and debris not only off the floor but from all the logs inside and the kitchen shelves. Messy!
I LOVE it when White catches a wolverine!!!

Thanks so much white!

I have read lots on the subject and have done lots of woodwork and chainsawing so the notches and such should be good, and I will have 2 other guys my age around 20, to help me.

Yea a tin roof would be best hey

Once the logs are dropped and peeled and seasoned, what sort of timeline would you guys estimate, 3-4 guys working, I was thinking about 10 days, to get it all built, but none of the inside done, like stove installment or bunks

Could probably forgo the windows if the bears would be a problem!

The soil is pretty gravely, in the interior of BC

Snareman PWF is just pressure treated lumber, with your alaskan mill just make your own lumber then treat it with a preservative. I have used a variety of foundations for cabins and this way is pretty fast and if the pads ever need replacing its easy to do. Just get your sill logs off the ground. I use my alaskan mill and flatten one side of the sill logs, then my floor boards get nailed to them, after the floor is done,(2 days if you have the logs handy) my log walls go up on the floor, this part can take some time if you are going to full scribe, (i dont anymore as most cabins need to be chinked anyway) for a "chinker" by myself the walls on a small cabin would be done in 5 days IF THE LOGS WERE ONSITE! the roof would take another few days. With the help you will have it will go much faster. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

The soil sounds like it will be ok. I asked that to get an idea of how much bearing it would provide.

Don't build a place with no windows. You will want light and lots of it. Just plan a way to bear-proof them with boards and lots of nails on the outside when you aren't there.

I would suggest you build a door that opens out rather than in. I know everyone will tell you to make it open in because of snow. I have never had snow keep me from opening the door. However, a door that opens out can't be opened by a bear leaning on it.

And maybe think about how wide your snogo is when making the door.

Absolutely !! Good point.

3 fingers, what is a Snogo?

White 17, thanks so much for that valuable info, especially the door!!


So how about this? I really like the criticism, if the logs on the ground is absolutely dumb please say, but it would save lots of work

I will get a few loads of gravel in with the quad, just to help keep a little more moisture away from the logs. I will treat the bottom logs with a sealent, maybe sikkens. build up my walls, cut a door and window, have door open out.
Then build gable ends put up ridge log and purlins. cover these with 2x12's cut with alaskan mill. Then tar paper and metal roofing

Should the chimney go through the roof? or through side of cabin, any ideas on the jack?

For the 2x12's
should I cut them and stack them with stickers to let them season just like the logs
or should I just fall a good tree for it, let the tree season and then cut the boards when I start building?

snogo, snowmachine, snowmobile, etc. All the same thing.

If I was gonna build one with logs on the ground I'd make the next row of logs longer so you could get a jack under if you have to replace the bottom logs. Personally I don't like a dirt floor but I suppose it depends how much time you spend there.

If you really want simple, go to alaskatrappers.org and click on cabin building workshop. Chain saw, spikes and sledge is all you need. Interesting to watch and to see how quick and dirty you can build a trapper's cabin. Some would reject this method - but it works for those who want little time and money invested.

If you build on the ground and then cut windows & door it will work fine...for a while. When things begin to settle and rot, your doors and windows will not work properly. If you put your sills on some sort of support system you can always shim the building back into level as 3 Fingers points out.

2x12's are overkill. The point of a roof is to be strong, but light. One inch material is sufficient. Definitely sticker it and let it dry.

Chimney through the roof for sure. Also, penetrate the roof as close to the ridge as possible.

I think yukon254 is saying he builds the floor out of pressure treated boards then mills one side of the sill logs flat and sets them on the already built floor, look at the pics on the website he posted, his post makes sence after looking at the pic of the Lodge on the main page

Why do you say to put the chimney through the roof? Wouldnt that be more apt to leak than going out through the side of the cabin?


I'm not a cabin builder nor do I claim any knowledge of said process.

Asking purely out of curiosity.

Four reasons at least.

1. get heat off of the stove pipe into the cabin
2. safer than having pipe next to the logs
3. You want the pipe as high as possible relative to the ridge so the sliding snow doesn't rip it off. That will happen if your pipe is below the eave or close to it.
4. stove draws better without the two elbows in the pipe.

I agree with the floor crowd. If you don't want treated, then use your mill to cut 3 by 12's. Then just cut them app. 2 feet each, then criss cross them and spike them together for a pad. Stack them two, two and one. Can go more or less of them for desired height. Could then use preservative like 254 said . This would allow for jacking. All just idea's, you have to build what you want.

OKOK so no cabin on dirt, bad idea, spend the extra time because we have the man power and make it up right?

Piperniner, sort of confused here
criss cross these 3x12x2's and form like a T?
or an X?

So the idea is that with the cabin resting on the wood pad, the wood pad will rot and not the cabin? and then you can jack the cabin up and replace the rotting pad/ support?

why not just when the sill logs rot, jack the cabin up and replace the sill logs



Thanks for the advice on the chimney!!
what sort of jack system to use to keep as much water out as possible?

Just a regular store-bought roof jack will work fine.

P9er is easily confused. What he was trying to say was;

Take two pieces of 3x12 and lay them side by side. Lay two more on top of those but at 90 degrees and spike them together. Now you have one piece that is 2'x2'x6" thick. put one more or two more etc. whatever you need to get your sills level. Space them every 8 feet under your sills.

Then you can paint these with some copper product like dock & fencepost preservative. Keeps your sills out of the dirt/water.

Ok, well that sounds good! I understand that!

As much of a bother as this may be to you guys this is all
extremely vakuable info to me and I greatly appreciate all your insight,
I just want to do this right!!

So I have decided to get the cabin off the ground.

I do plan on having a quad trail in, and If I have to bring in the paint and brushes etc to do all this and wait for it to dry, what about using cinder blocks? or is the bigger surface area provided by the wood blocks superior?

This is what I have gathered, please correct if wrong, because I feel I may be a bit off

So once I get my blocks down and all leveled up. I place my 2 sill logs. The sill logs have a flat side cut on the topside
ontop of the sills go my floor boards nailed down. then I start to build my walls and the floor boards will be nailed and sandwidched in between the sill and above log.
if I build my cabin 12x16, would I need any floor joists? or just span the cabin with the floor boards, maybe make them a little thickers?

If I let the logs season for a year, how much space should I allow so that I can compensate for settling above door and window

Any info on keeping roof jack from leaking

Whose on second ?

What White said.

Could just replace rotton sills - it's personal preference and opinion based on people's experience - like anything else. Some just feel it's a better method for building, leveling and repairing. Like they say in Bethel - yupik.

If hauling in sheet metal full length is a problem you can cut it
into managable lengths like 4 ft or whatever for hauling and then shingle it. Take in a few tubes of mastic and a caulking gun to seal the seams and for around the roof jack.
The same can be done with treated lumber for ground sills and floor joist. Cut 2X6's into 6 ft lenghts and laminate your beams
by staggering the joints, use lots of nails and gorilla glue.

The size of the pads depends on the bearing pressure of your soils. Concrete blocks would be ok but they might not be stable. The building might rock slightly depending on how many you put at each location. The smaller the footprint of the pad, the higher the PSI on the soil. The higher the psi, the more difficult it will be for frost to move the building. I wouldn't go larger than 24"x24" and 16" would be better. I know that is counter-intuitive but it works.

You need three sill logs not two. One in the center; and I would use floor joists. Run them the 12 foot direction obviously and you can get by with 2x6 since your span will not be more than 6 feet. Inch board for the deck. I suppose you could cut full 2 inch thick flooring and omit the joists but then you can't insulate the floor if you had planned to do that.

The roof jack won't leak if you install it correctly, With metal roofing you can slide the high edge of the roof jack flashing under the ridge cap of the roofing, provided you locate the pipe hole close to the ridge. OR, you can screw an extra scrap of roofing over the top of the flashing and the cover that with the ridge cap. Try to get away from cutting a slot in the metal and sliding the roof jack into it. That's more hassle and more prone to leak at the edges of the cut.

Head space over the windows and door: Depends on the foundation you choose. I'd start with 1 1/2" over each. Spray foam the gaps. The foam will compress some but still keep the gap sealed. It will be a long time before you have to make adjustments...if ever.

Depending on the size of your logs... a log wall can shrink up to 1 inch per foot of wall height. Not allowing enough room over doors and windows is the mistake most often made by first time log builders. If I am building with green logs my standard is to leave 6 inches, and I have had to go back later on some and cut out more! The pads I use are 4 ft by 4 ft 5 inches thick, one man cant move them, but that is on bad ground. Get Tom Walkers book it will answer all of your questions.

This cabin is a 14X16, originally built out of green, frozen unpeeled logs in the winter time, with untreated rough-cut lumber floor, bottom ring setting on the ground. The corners are
mortise & tenon (called the "trapper notch" locally) done with a chain saw by eyeball (no tape measuring). No swedish cope, just
run a saw between the logs to fit them to rach other. Two of us
logged and stacked the walls in four days using a set of bull hooks to skid the logs. The bottom logs and floor rotted out after 25 yrs. We used air jacks a few years ago and raised it up
and replaced the bottom ring with 8X8 treated beams and the floor with 2X6 treated joist decked with 5/8 treated plywood. The
8X8's set right on the ground. The door and windows are framed in with rough-cut 2X6. Shrinkage was not figured in and has never been a problem. When we raised it up we also peeled the bark inside & out and perma-chinked inside and out as well as
replaced the roof. Heres a pic with the bear guards over the windows.

I would definitely go bigger than 10X10. I built a 10X12 one time and it was too small even for one person to be comfortable in. The 14X16 sleeps 4 OK but for extended time it is about right for 2 people. Even if you don't do it right away you should eventually perma-chink at least the outside. With it you can make the cabin squirrel and mouse proof and it makes the cabin easier to heat. If you do perma-chink you need a air vent
in the gable like the one in the picture with screen over it to
provide some air circulation to prevent carbondioxide poisoning
and to let moister escape from inside the cabin. Maybe the picture will help with some ideas on building.

Great Info from all here, you guys have no idea how much this is helping, maybe with a few more guys posting pics and some good info this can make it into the Archives!!!

Spek Jones, that is a great cabin, you must be very proud of it!
Its actually really nice to see a pic of one, if anyone else has a pic of their cabin, and put a brief description of their experinces, this thread would be great for all new cabin builders!

Spek jones. So originally your cabin was just sitting on the ground? I am sorry I dont know what a Bottom Ring is, I assume it us the bottom log, sill log?

What did you use for roofing material, and you used air jacks? they need a generator to run?

And I also have changed my plans to 12x16.

Here's mine;

Here's another one;




Here's something else you should consider.

Yes snareman, the bottom ring is the 4 bottom logs. We just leveled off the ground and started stacking logs. We nailed 2X4's around inside to the bottom logs to rest the floor joist on. After the floor and bottom ring rotted and we raised it up
and put the 8X8 beams under it and hung the floor off the 8X8's.
It is a hard job to raise a cabin and replace the bottom ring.
If you can swing it you are much better off to put down something
that will last like treated wood, railroad ties or concrete, with
the treated wood being the easeist and most pratical.
The air jacks do require a small generator and a small compressor
but work a lot better and faster than Hyd jacks, and you can bring all 4 corners up at the same time. We roofed it originally
with tar paper. Eventually replaced that with sheet metal cut into 3ft lengths, then when we rebuilt the whole thing we reroofed it with full lenght sheet metal.

Spek I will have to look into those airjacks! Thanks. Logs cut in the winter will shrink the least (sap is down) With a floor built the way Spek describes snareman where you are you will have major trouble with rodents under it, if I remember right when I was at the Gang Ranch we had our share of pack rats! When you build your walls then hang a floor a couple logs up you are building a rodent factory on the bottom level.

You wouldn't want the floor a couple logs up. The higher you set the floor the higher you have to make the walls. On a small cabin
built by man power I'd build the floor right on the ground with
treated wood. The higher you set the floor the higher the walls have to be. If you set the floor on the ground, start with the bigger logs on the bottom rings and work up to the smaller logs
on top then with two or three guys you can stack the cabin by hand without having to monkey around rigging a gee pole, which saves a lot of time. On the rebuild project I put down a 16X20 ft sheet of typar (geotextile road fabric) on the ground, framed the floor with beams and 2X6's on top of that, then pulled the typar that stuck out on all sides up on the outside edges and stapled it all the way around. The floor was insulated between
the joist with fiberglass batts. The typar makes a vapor barrier
between the gound and floor and protects the insulation. If deep snow is a problem extend the roof out front to shelter the entrance. My extends out about 3 ft which is sufficient here.

Spek,

You have any issue with rodents getting through that road fabric and into the insulation and such? Around here, you can lay a tarp on the ground and pull it up two days later to a vole race track under it through the dirt.

-TJ

Jimmy, don't have a decent darn set of Xray glasses so don't know
what the little devils are up to under there. The typar is much tougher though than the poly tarp and I doubt they are chewing through it. I'm sure they have tunnels around under it
though. Main thing is they are not getting inside the cabin.
A pack rat may chew through it, never been around them. Suppose if it was a concern a person could trench down around the beams on the outside and skirt the beams with sheet metal. Long as they are not inside I don't much care what they are doing. The cabin is so easy to heat since I perma-chinked that I wouldn't bother with insulation in the floor if I had it to do over. Would
still put down the typar though for moister barrier.

I'm curious about using typar as a vapor barrier? Its function under roads, over septics, etc. is to allow moisture to pass through but not silt/dirt. Tyvek allows air and moisture to go out but not in. Which are you using and how could it be a moisture barrier? Have you ever checked inside the insulation?

yea perma chink is great stuff i have used it on at least 20 cabins so far. down here the mice can have the virus that kills people, so i always build a good insulated floor with plywood on both sides (or heavy mesh on the underside) then the walls go up on top of the floor and every thing is chinked. i also put lots of mothballs out as well as poison in the off season, and with over 20 cabins in the woods i have very little problems with mice and bear boards take care of the bigger critters. I have rolled in to too many cabins late at night that were infested with mice, to want to do it any more. I bought a woodbug mill a few tears ago and everything since has been framed, ten times faster uses half the logs and way warmer than any log building.

Akntrpr, the filter fabric used on septics and the geotextile road fabric are two different materials. The material I used is
Amoco 2002, a medium duty road fabric that water does not go through unless it is damaged. It is tough stuff. ("Typar" is
actually a brand name used as a slang name for road fabric.)
Some road fabrics are the felt type like the filter fabric and
while the road engineers rave about it IMO is worthless and a waste of money.
Yukon254, I agree on the stick frame being easier to build but I still much prefer the log cabins for out in the woods.

The Typar & Tyvek that I am familiar with won't pass water but is designed to pass water vapor. Code calls for minimum 6 mil poly as a vapor barrier on the ground in crawl spaces.

As far as rodents are concerned I set out a couple packs of D-Con when I leave in the spring. Haven't had a vole in the cabin in a very long time.

Snareman, you wanted to build a quick and simple shack to spend the night in and these guys are talking you into building a modern home up to code. Next they will be talking you into indoor plumbing and a hot tub!!! Have fun with whatever you decide.

Hey I love my hot tub! Thanks for the info guys thats what I was curious about.

Yeah, every cabin needs a hot tub.

-TJ

Hot tubs are part of the plumbing code.

I doubt I'd get in a hottub with any of you trapper's out on the line no matter how much we smelled like bait. Beware Okiekajun! stranger things have happened at trappers cabins.

I wonder if White has told Okiecajun that swimsuits are not allowed in the cabin hot tub?

I hope the camera's are shut off by then!!

The cameras are hardwired into the bottom of the tub.

I don't live in a cabin!

We love our hottub.

Now that is funny!!!!

Thanks for the concern takotna, but I think that hot tub will feel pretty good after the pillow fights.

You might be sleeping in the cache just so you get that full Alaskan experience.

Okie, I discovered that one needs to lie down corner to corner in the cache in order to be able to stretch out. Just a heads up!
It is the only "log cabin" I built by myself.
AND I don't have a problem with rodents ;o)

White 17,that sandbag camp in the photo brings back memories.
Check under the bunk for snakes and scorpions in your boots and helmet..
Probably dont need to worry about that in Alaska..
Al