No. Once you get it skinned down below the sex organs, you can stip it all the way to the front legs with the machine. No knifework needed. You just hook the vicegrip clamps (mine have flatbar welded on) to the hind legs. I have never had one rip. Ever. Otter are tough, I have torn a couple back legs when using a vicegrip to strip them rather than skin with a knife. The vicegrip that I am talking about for the tail and legs does not have flatbar, just a regular one.

I only use a knife for the initial cuts, a little around the sex organs, and the head.

Hey Joe thanks for the input.
On the otter you must be talking above water?
I did leave an otter set out once when I was in town on an extended trip waiting for our baby that was late. Took my window out to three weeks. I had an otter that started to slip while in a conibear under water. That is how I came up with the three weeks as a no no. But I think above water being frozen would be better. Even through a freeze thaw cycle. But being above water out here means voles and even a shorter window for checks. I set very few sets above water.

The marten seem to do fine if they are frozen. The lips and eyes start to dehydrate. We have a very dry cold here. I can see in your maritime environment where you could have problems. I had a set this winter that seemed to have gotten out of the way enough that it didn't make the cut for a couple of checks. I know I had one marten that was out at least a month. It came out fine. Had some dry lips and sunken eyeballs but over the hide was fine.

Thanks for the input on the otter skinning. That is what I was looking for. I hate pulling and skinning them by hand. I would way rather clean skin them like a beaver. That is the way I do all of them that I tan.
The tail is pretty cool the way it will strip down. I always start at the base end and strip. Funny how it peels off at the fat meat layer. I had not thought of doing it from the end of the tail.
From what you are saying looks like if I had a mechanical pulling system, boat winch, etc I could maybe make it work on the line. I wonder if I just tied off to a stable tree willow even and to the snowmachine if the weight of the snowmachine wold be enough weight to stay put while pulling an otter. Save having to make a frame of some kind. It would be horizontal which would be a little harder but better than the alternative of not skinning.
Fleshing would not be done until after I ship them out to my home base in Homer.
I am really tossing ideas around right now on how much to target beaver and otter vs marten.

I am blessed with a gazillion beaver and a lot of otter in relatively close range compared to marten.
It is just soo much work taking care of them for the return. I love to trap otter and beaver however and trapping a captive audience like beaver seems a breeze after dealing with finicky marten last season.

I wonder what a guy could average on Nov/Dec Beaver. My Nov/Dec beaver are so easy to trap compared to later.
Not under furred nearly as well however but I can't even begin to compare the ease of trapping compared to later in the season with deep snow and ice.

Anyone reading this sell any Nov/Dec beaver in Alaska, Nafa? Local?
Mine are still in the freezer. Deciding whether to tan and skin or just dry and sell. I have to make a decision when I get home and get started.
Nafa Jan Wonder where Alaskan beaver would fit?
Dec sale
Type Offering %Sold Section Average Top
Beaver 27,219 100 Eastern I $24.70 $57.00
100 Western I $23.73 $45.00
100 Section III $14.32

May sale.
Beaver 102,092 97% Eastern I $ 22.14 $120.00
92% Western I $ 23.49 $ 45.00
100% Section III $ 12.60


Sure wish otter would get moving on the market.

I am leary of beaver at NAFA. I would say fairly confidently that you can get $40 on the good ones locally pretty easy. I averaged just under that with early fall caught beaver. Got $40 or up for all the bigger ones. The bigger sewers around here use a LOT of beaver. If you can find the markets, most are willing to pay.

I would DEFINITELY put any beaver into the Fur Rondy auction before I would send them to NAFA. First off, you have control because you can set minimums on them. Also, good beaver allways sell well there because a couple of sewers usually show up and keep the competition for them. Just as soon pay commission to ATA as to NAFA as well. It isn't tough to average $40 before commissions there. This last year, Masek and a couple other guys sent down a bunch (maybe 60-80) of REALLY nice beaver and I think they averaged around $60. Just going off of memory there. Everyone wanted them.

Joe
Good points.
How does the ATA work. Do they sell in lots of a single buyer, by the pelt or graded lots?
Something I would like to do would be to precontact some sewers preseason and show them some samples of what my fur looks like. Color, and quality. Tanned or dryed
If I could establish a market for beaver that would give me a $40 dollar average on Dec beaver there would be about 200 less beaver on the delta by next Feb.
Are these private sewers or some of the furriers in Anchorage like David Green?

If you know of any of the buyers that I might contact regarding beaver let me know.
Where should I start looking? Furriers in the tourist shops in Anchorage, craft shows and state fair etc? I know you have your otter markets and I don't want to cause you any marketing problems. I think I will take some fur to Anchorage and see what I can find for markets. Any tips would be appreciated.

The people at craft shows all want tanned fur. But there is definitely interest there. That was our fall-back market for otter if we couldn't move them raw. And yeah, that is the sort of big sewer I am talking about. Talked to one of the Green's about otter and they were interested, but never actually sold any to them. They do buy raw fur though. The one thing is, that it seems to work much better to talk with these people in person rather than over the phone. Some medium sewers too, the people who have their own shops, but aren't a David Green. Even those guys, some of them use 300+ beaver a year. Beaver are actually one of the easier things to move to sewers around here. We stopped at a couple shops to make contact, and others we either met at the fur auction; or sometimes buyers come to the SCCATA meetings. The other cool thing, is that to some extent the sewers are independent of the fur market and pay you what they can afford to pay and still make a good profit. Not so much what the market is. Also, by cutting out a middle man they save a BUNCH of money. The costs involved from buying at some place like NAFA are pretty ridiculous. It is mostly a matter of doing the work and establishing the connections. (Which, to be honest, my dad did most of.) But you never really know how it will work out, I think the main guy we sold too last year originally sort of just told us that he would look at some otter because he wanted to get us in his shop so he could buy our beaver. Then he liked them a lot and ended up buying a bunch over the course of the season.

The Fur-Rondy auction is essntially run as a single item auction. Each pelt is tagged and bid on as a unique item. Although, often two well matched pelts are put up at the same time to be bid on at the same time. Just to speed things up.

Hey if the money is there I can do that too. Tanning otter is pretty consistent. Beaver on the other hand are harder and don't turn out as consistently soft as beaver.
A lot more thinning of the leather is required as well.
I am going to be tanning up some otter and beaver this summer and will have to show crafters. By tanning I could make money while I am home as well.

Len good idea and not to put a damper on it but think for a minute how much is your time for tanning worth? can you tan an otter in 2 hours? I figure my time for something like that is worth no less then $20-$25 an hour now I can send it out get it tanned and back to me for $25 pluss shipping so about 32-38 per pelt.
Now the distinct disadvantage you are trusting someone else with your fur and it takes 2 months minimum generally 3 or 4 to get your fur back. So it is a toss up I go with the money out of pocket vs my time and my free time is just too valuable so I am willing to wait on the tannery Of course I dont have the
advantage of being retired like you
But if you are selling beaver for $40 tanned you are cheating yourself $80-$100 is the going price around here for a tanned one but the market is very limited. Also some fo the sewers bigger ones are not going to want tanned hide they want them all tanned with the company of their choosing not random as there product is dependent on a certain quality of tan and they know where they can get that.
Selling raw to theses guys at $40 a beaver is a better way to go IMO but having some around tanned to sell to someone in need like myslef for instance were I to run short then you would be increaseing you options and overall income. I hope this all makes sense as I seem to have gotten on three or four thoughts here

Otterman I hear you. I would not consider tanning beaver in any quantity right now. Otter maybe. The $40 price I was talking was dry. In the village I usually charged about $40 just to tan their large beaver and could have a hide back in less than 10 days. But I would only tan green beaver. Can't do dried hides.

Otter if I was tanning 20 at a time I would have less than 2 hours into tanning them. Less thinning compared to beaver and a lot more consistent tan. I love working with otter.

If I had a tumber to break hides, which I would consider making using Bruce Rittel's directions he sells, I would consider tanning on a larger scale. The tanning part is realatively easy. It is the breaking down that is a bummer when doing a bunch.
My initial thought is to sell beaver dried. Maybe salted and ears turned if I am marketing to Alaskan sewers that may use the head. When is the last time you saw a beaver for sale that had soft ears?

Otters a mix of tanned and dried depending on the market I find.
I will know more after a trip to Anchorage.

The biggest reason I got into tanning was my disapointment in commercially tanned furs. Hide was too thin and the leather was alum tanned.
I wanted a hide that would stand up to heavy use and getting wet repeatedly.
I've been very happy with the results.
But it sure is tempting to just ship beaver to Moyles or similar. My freezer could breathe a little easier if I did.

Retirement _ Only in the states eyes! But working at things you enjoy is a blessing.
Thanks for the input. As always it is appreciated. I am never tied of listening to others advice and comments.

Hey Len, if your into tanning you might check out the guy who owns Frontier Tanning. Couple years ago he was wanting to retire and sell out.

Last years weather/snow conditions was a fluke. Not the type of conditions one can rely on. I think, Len, that you were virtually travelling thru the marten country on a paved hiway. I assume that had something to do with the amount of line and traps you got out. Could be alot different next year. I don't think your weather is anymore stable than anywhere else. Your on the edge of interior cold, and coastal warm, plus far enough south to get the warm spells several times a winter. Shoot for the moon, but be ready to change course as conditions effect you.
From what you've discussed on this otter thread, you have 4 species with the potential to give you a decent return on your trapping investment. Marten, lynx, otter, and beaver. Of those 4, I would say marten and lynx are the easiest to set for and least work to handle. I'd say that a lynx line could be run faster than an otter, or lynx/otter line.
I sure envy your mixed bag country. Talked to Jeff Sutter quite a bit last winter. Really good lynx numbers about 20 miles south of Mountain.
mt

Paved highway was right.
And it was a fluke. Would really have been the winter to keep lynx traps working.
As far as the weather being stable it can swing here for sure. But over the last 23 years I have seen where the kusko area usually looses its snow much easier.
I think due to the frozen Bearing sea up hear our coastal influence all but goes away in mid winter as compared to places like Dillingham. I like to those big thaws anyway. It can really improve things for trapping if you have a lot of snow. We are not imune to the storm track however and of course it can rain for a week in Feb.
It was slow going until we had the thaw last year. Lots of snow when it finally did come. But that was kind of a fluke too. Just have to take what comes along and be ready to capitalize on the situation. Become diversified. ;0)

I know the area well that Jeff talked to you about. The lynx numbers are high right now in all the river and flats around it on the delta. I just don't want to get tied into a species that will dictate a weekly or less trap check for an extended time like lynx.

If I choose to do beaver it will be a concentrated effort on a three-4 day rotation for a month or so. Taking time out to get a marten line working when conditions dictate. Trap beaver and once every 10 days or so run the marten line.

If I leave for an extended time for home or spend more time on a marten line I would have to set off my lynx sets. Insulated beaver sets would be fine. Not great but they would make it without loss of fur. Might have some extra chopping to do but that is all. I just don't see a real big effort for lynx happening.

I am fortunate to have the mixed bag here. I am just contemplating on how best to strategize on making it work and getting a good return for my time.
Bottom line I like to trap all 4 about equally well. I just have to weigh the taking care of them.
The marten have it hands down there but are a wild card on whether or not they will cooperate. I think if we have a somewhat usual winter I could do pretty good this year with what I learned last year. The investment is made.

Beaver is a given. No doubt that I can catch a lot of them. But do I want that much work. Only if I know I can get a decent price on them dried. It would take investing $ in more conibears however. Not a very rosy picture. Snares are an option but don’t compare to conibears in success per set in my opinion.

Otter. If China hadn't pulled the plug and sent the returns on them to the toilet I would be all over them. I love trapping otter. I will look for an Alaskan Market like Joe. If it pans out I will make time for them.

Lynx. I hate to trap a lot of them for fur prices and I just don't seem to make the time to market them like I should to the taxidermy markets like I have in the past. I have some to tan up. I will see what they will do locally as well.

Decisions. Just like last year. Planning is half the fun for me however.
I really miss doing this with my kids. Takes a lot of the fun out of it for me not having them here to trap with. With the decision to put my son in public school this year there will be even less time for him to join me out here.

What ever I do I will be loving it as always!
Thanks for the input Mike it is appreciated as always.
Guess I will quit straying on this otter thread. Started off on the topic and now seems to have gone all over.

Perhaps we need a trapline planning thread?
mt