ttt one last time

Kinkless, look at the size trap's they were using back then, animal welfare wasn't exactly on their minds!

I caught 126 coyotes and all my traps are set up with shock springs. When coyotes lunge it keeps them from a solid jerk. I wouldn't be without them.

look at the size trap's they were using back then, animal welfare wasn't exactly on their minds!

Interesting I guess it's like people setting 1 3/4 for coyotes. If people want to mink trap coyotes go for it. Your going to tell me a 3n is larger than a 3 coilspring. I wonder how many coyotes fell to the 3n? What about the 3 Newhouse wasn't that a Govt issued trap also. The 4 and 3 worked off the same frame.

I read on here people recomending Duke 1.5's for coyotes. To each his own but not many guys putting up numbers of coyotes are using small traps and swingset chain either.

So what are you saying Kinkless? People like Russ Carmen and Johne Thorpe use don't know what they are talikng about? I would love to use #3's. But plain in simple, it's not legal in NY and I hate to run the risk of harming a "non-target" for a "20 dollar" coyote.

I like the JC shock springs, they look cool and I feel keep the trap at the set and help with reduced pull out, etc. (but don't need them on the KB 5.5's).....

How many pulled out of those 3N's? We could question everything from now on if we wanted.

I don't care how one traps coyotes, if you want two tons of extra chain to lug around you don't need that's fine with me.

As for the 1.75 sized traps we agree there but there are exception's, it was the trap of choice of our coyote trappers in extreme south alabama, many caught over 100 coyotes annually, some double that!

Keep in mind though it's on 24 hour checks, no frozen ground and sandy soil, peanut growing country. They used about 3 swivels and a couple of links of chain nailed down with disposable stakes.

Is what works in THEIR part of the state, don't work so well for me in the part I trapped. Doesn't mean my style was right and their's wrong or vice versa, just means we had different condition's to operate in and adjusted to what worked the best for US!

I just don't see any logic in running 6-8 ft. of chain on a coyote trap staked down! 3 ft. in badger country i understand, anything over that don't make any sense to me.

How about this... I heard from a very well respected T-man member and BIG TIME coyote trapper, that he perfers the coyotes hit that chain end solid once so it don't feel so good and next time they won't hit it so hard. Makes sence to me.

~ADC~

ADC,

What if they go to hit it the first time hard and pull out?

I don't know ask him, it's his theory. I just said it makes sence to me.

*hint - rumor has it he's running for president

I disagree with ADC as if you had a coyote hit the chain hard and he wasn't caught good he would be gone. They are alot harder on traps with a straight hard jerk.

This just got very good! Now if Slim himself would chime in?

What's wrong with swingset chain (large twin loop)? Are you talking Big twin loop or mocking someone's choice for rusted chain?

Lots of theories being expressed here. First get a #3 longspring or 3N if you prefer, same jaw spread anyway, set it, then set a 1.75 coilspring next to it---get your tape measure out too as eyesight can be deciving sometimes. But very little differences are there?

I came up through the time period when the 3n was the ONLY good coyote trap that was available to use. I also spent a good deal of time talking traps with very good coyote trappers, like George Good, Craig O'Gorman, Frank Morgan, and the list could go on and on in those days. Some preferred long chains, some preferred chains only long enough that badgers would not dig out the stakes. The Theories on the long chains is that the coyote would hurt his shoulder when he hit the end of the chain and so he would not be able to fight as long and hard after that, PLUS it kept him pulling sideways to the dog type smooth stakes or rebar stakes and he was not able to pump on the stakes upwards. All were correct but all were in a different time and in a different world than we live in today. ie. People and thier pets were not everywhere like they are today, for one thing, and trappers were not under near as much scroutney as we are today.

With that all in mind. The shock springs are good, if for no other reason, than it gives the appearance to the unknowing eyes that trappers are concerned about the animals that may be caught. However, in reality, I have never seen much difference in improvement to caught animals. But it does make a BIG difference in the ability of the animals being able to not pull stakes from the ground, like has already been stated many times.

Traps are greatly improved today, Swivels and chain are improved and much more readily available, Stop Shock springs are greatly improved from the original junk still offered for sale by one company, and we can argue weight etc. and nit pik from now till the cows come home, but in reality, most of the nit picking will only boil down to each trapper's mind set, which usually resists change. Change is good! I know I do not want to go back to driving a new 1960 vehicle, or 1960 tires, etc.
If we are only talking coyotes and coyote traps, I prefer to use my number two offset Bridgers, baseplated with slightly offset to the side d-ring loop chain attachment with double swivel, 10 inchs of chain, a good PIT or JC Connors type shock spring, double swivel,and another six inchs of chain with a double swivel to fasten to whatever kind of staking system. Why---because it has a slightly larger jaw spread than an old Number three longspring trap, less weight and mess, AND the shock spring DOES help with coyotes not being able to pull the stakes, even if they do nothing more than pull on the shock spring, they are not pulling thier toes off, or pulling out of the traps.

Thanks abunch Slim,very informative!

Nice answer Slim! I would not use a staked set without a coyote sized stop shock spring in the chain. It would be rare for a properly modified, appropriate sized trap to let a coyote pop out. More than likely it was not caught good enough to begin with. I lost one coyote to a power out, because it took the drag into a barb wire fence, wrapped the chain tight, then it powered out. But who knows it may not have been caught properly, also. That was right after, or just before I went to a 3# pan tension, which pretty much ended my toe catches. T.20

agree with em (shock springs)

Slim, can you touch on what Dave Plueger touched on....heavier chain...not 5-8 ft but a bit longer than your described rig of approximately 18 inches....maybe 36 inches of heavy chain and no shock spring. Guess what I'm asking is there a happy medium? I have run the gamut...tried the Western rig as you mentioned 5-6 ft of heavy chain, and the extreme Eastern fox style of 6 inches. Had problems with them both...that was before disposable stakes.
I will say this I prefered the longer chains...shorter chains in my areas WITH ALL species captured created more problems. PM for more details as I won't go into details here.
So getting back to the question...is there a chain length...using a good heavy chain that might possibly equate to similar "shock absorbing qualities" as a shock spring?

Thanks for your responses.

Mchewk, How would a longer chain, even a heavy one, stop any shock? The longer chain, light, or heavy, only gives the animal more freedom to move around and tire itself out, as well as more things to tangle in often, so more stuff to chew on and wear it self down. The shock spring keeps the animal from getting as much leverage--period. I don't think it does anything more or less, and a long chain actually give an animal some additional leverage sometimes, but that is if it can pull uphill on the trap stake. The long chain gives the animal more shock on the foot and leg when it takes a long run across the trap circle.