Hello, all... I was at the WDNR legal meetings on this matter in 2011to hear input by all in attendance and took the stand myself to give testimony. There were actually 4 meetings statewide about a week apart. The bottom line is that you can not do bat exclusion during the shutdown period in WI. except in extreme needs cases and then by permit only. The laws do have teeth and have been inforced in a few cases already. WI. has collectively joined forces in a multi state effort to educate violators of the laws and have talked to violators already and now that has gotten them on a watch list. Last year a warden investigated a case in West Salem, WI. when fishermen below a dam called in a complaint during the shut down about injured and dead bats floating down the river from the dam up above. There was a pest control operator there but by the time the warden arrived the bats(evidence) were gone and the pest control guy said he was just hired to remove the guano and had nothing to do with the bats. Last month in Madison ,WI. This same company was reported by a homeowner because they were excluding during the shutdown. The DNR was again contacted and the company was fired. This company is being monitored for their continued illegal activity and F rating by the BBB and many complaints by dis-satisfied customers. Wisconsin will soon do a heavy inforcement and fine those that break the laws and shut down companies that continue to disobey. Reaearch also shows that those that try to sex a colony to determine it as a bachelor colony just so they can do a job, have mis-diagnosed in a majority of cases. The law does not allow exclusion of bachelor colonies anyway but reads that NO exclusions are to be done at that time. Trying to say that a law is open for interpretation just to find a loophole around it is really a desperate attempt to get more work and usually those that do that really don't have any regard for the bats even though they may say that they do. They should first work on having a good reputation and getting good reviews and then the work will come.
Wisconsin laws have been taunted and challenged by those that just can't get enough work because of their reputation and review comments. Legitimate and reputable companies just don't seem to have these problems though and do observe the laws and also have plenty of work.

Thanks for sharing MJB. Thorough post with a lot of aspects covered that shows people are watching what is going on with our industry and what we do for not just larger wildlife but bats as well.

Justin

That's a wonderful post and I hope everyone in Wisconsin reads it. I'll just leave it at that. If I'm correct, Mr. Bakke owns Wisconsin Bat Specialists in Sparta, Wisconsin and has an A+ rating from the BBB. ( Not to be confused with Greg Bakke who owns Wisconsin Bat Specialists of Waterford, Wisconsin ) We also have Wisconsin Bat Specialists of Green Bay and Bat Specialists of Wisconsin in Fond du Lac.

Hey Justin, guess who's over the private topic limit? One more PM and there will be an explosion that will wipe out parts of New Mexico.

Hello Paul, HD, Nate and others that have commented on this forum. I believe that we will all see very soon that only those that operate legally and don't post complaints about the DNR will be the only survivors in this matter. Those that question the laws and try to find ways around them are only hurting themselves. Their posts go viral and then everyone, everywhere gets to see who the whiners are. A legitimate and reputable bat-proofer usually does not have to go more than 50 miles from his home to get all the work they want. Those that have ruined their reputation are always talked about at the State Pest Control meetings and every operator and State Agency already has them flagged on their black list and word about them only spreads and then their referrals go down. They will usually overstate their qualifications and advertise everywhere to get any work they can get from those that will hire them because of not doing their homework.
A potential customer should always check the reputation of the company they are considering to do their work with the BBB, Angie'sList, YP.com, yellowbook.com, etc. to see what others have said about them.

Michael J.Bakke. . www.WisconsinBatSpecialistsInc.com. . (Since 1979)

Paul, open space...,fire away.

The state of Wisconsin sent me a letter around June 18th for bat professionals regarding all the new laws that are in effect regarding bat exclusion. The letter states "Any pest control operator that enters a roost site and physically removes or handles bats of a colon must obtain a T/E (Threatened/Endangered) permit to continue to do their work. If the work conducted by the pest control operator does not involve handling the bats, the operator is not required to have a permit." And according to the state there are more than 300 pest control operators in the state that work with bats. They are also going to be offering a voluntary certification which will involve watching a short video and signing an agreement.

I got the same letter.

Out of curiosity, does the T/E letter reference any other document than the Conservation Plan or is there an updated plan that hasn't been posted yet?

The posted plan has several interesting details in it. First, it only can be applied to cave dwelling bats and is even more specific in naming four species. The plan is only in effect whenever one of those species is present or suspected to be present. So any non-listed bat such as a silver-haired bat, would require a special permit even to remove from a structure unless there is an exception somewhere else.

Second, it does give the right to the landowner (which must be defined elsewhere) to classify their situation as a health risk based on their own belief system which then negates having to follow the conservation plan.

“The landowner, rather than the DNR, is allowed to determine if they believe there is a health risk under this section (Section A). … If an activity qualifies as a health exception, it is exempt from the remaining minimization measures.”

Third, it list specific activities (bat removal, building demolition, tree cutting, bridge projects, miscellaneous building projects to include roofing, painting, siding, etc., and wind energy development) and gives specific guidelines for each of these activities.

This is a good point Eric, that most language when homeowner exemptions exist an operator could "educate" a potential client to how they need to view the problem to turn it into an excludable species any time of year!

This is akin to..... "He was coming right at me, I had to shoot!!"

Most know this already but speaking as an ex govt. guy, no one is going to take on the potential liability or risk or someone not being able to exclude or deal with an issue in a home head on in clear language. They may encourage or push for better use of exclusion during the best times of year to avoid maternity impacts and push for methods of how it can be done, but homeowners will reign supreme as it is not in the state or feds best interest to become legally responsible for cases they don't allow to be excluded that could go sideways.

My disclaimer would be, many if not all homes can do interior seal ups during the maternity season and avoid impacts to bats and buy the necessary time and put homeowners at ease till out of this time. I did 3 interior seal outs in the last week to allow just this type of thing, the folks are happy, they understand what we are allowing time for and have no issue with waiting now.

I believe you will see very state moving toward some formal discussion or rules for bats and activities that impact colonies and roosts as WNS creeps across the country. That and that even in absence of WNS the devastating impacts have taught more people positive things about bats, the public is better educated and understands bats more and that alone is causing more funding, education and direction going toward better conservation measures.

Justin

Hello all,
The T-E permit does not allow you to do the work during the shut down. What it is saying is that during the open period if you are handling or removing bats, you must have this permit. If you are excluding bats or sealing a non colonized or active home and you do not handle them, then you do not need a permit. This interior sealing of a home is a good thing and what all the members of my crews are doing now.
There are over 300 bat proofers in WI. as the figure is around 365 now and growing. Four have 25-35 years experience, about 60 have 15-25 years, 150+ have 10-15 years and the rest have less...Only 2 have an F rating with the BBB so most are respected for doing the right thing.
Two of the big pest control companies are having a training school in WI. and will each be graduating 25-35 new bat proofers twice per year and getting them trucks and certified as so called professionals and Madison, LaCrosse, Point, Marshfield and Rapids are the areas that they plan to be flooding with these guys. Wisconsin already has the most bat-proofers in the midwest in comparison with less than 100 in Iowa and Illinois and people there are on long waiting lists to get their work done, especially in the quad cities area. These guys though are learning the law as part of their training and that is a good thing.

Michael J.Bakke. WisconsinBatSpecialistsInc.com. . (Since 1979)

Hey Justin, what Mr. Bakke posted about the number of bat proofers in our state is very interesting. Is there any reason to believe that we may have more bats in Wisconsin as well?

Paul,

More than?

Ohio, New Mexico?

I'd say the number of operators is more related to unrelated biological aspects.

How's that for clear as mud!



Actually I thought of a good analogy... Hunting and fishing are good examples, lots go out, not all catch their limit or fill their tag.

This 300+ operators doesn't mean here are gobs of bats, just that that many people see the potential revenue stream and are willing to bait their hook or load their gun so to speak.

Better?

Yeah, I get the picture. I never gave bats a second thought until I got involved in this business. Now to find out that we have over 300 of those caped crusaders running around the state is kind of mind blowing.

That might account for a $2000 bat proofing bid on a house that didn't have bats.

MJB, Where did you get the numbers for Illinois? I work about 20 miles south of the quad cities and don't know of any waiting list.

or bids of 500.00 for a 3 story, 8 dormer home that is full of. Bats

Good points, all, and good to see everybody taking the high road on this topic.
Have any of you had to do an ER or carcass removal after somebody did a removal during nursery season? What's that like?

Hello all,
Jim- I PM'ed you with the info for this question. Paul, we see a lot of overpricing here in WI. also and had one operator ask the homeowner to go to a hotel for a week while they did their overpriced work that had a very small problem with bats and only got one inside about every 5 or 6 years. Bud, there are a number of new pest control operators that are trying to break into the business and will bid extremely low just to get any work that they can.
On your Google search bar ---type in bat removal law and read what other states are doing and enforcing. I believe that our laws will follow these patterns and get very strict soon.
At youtube---Type in--- The Peoples Court-Judge Milan flips out, ----This is a case of a young Fla. Atty. tyring to defend a bat proofing operator for his shabby work there.....interesting!

MichaelJ. Bakke
WISCONSIN BAT SPECIALISTS Inc.

MJB, I thank you for taking the time to send me the info. However, I did not get your pm. Thank you for the thought.

Jim, the pm was re-sent....
Just to let all know....the facebook page. 'Bat Specialist of Wisconsin' is not part of my company or anyone associated with me. On that site the pco mentions his exclusion work, location and dates that he IS doing during the blackout. He states on this forum and his website that he doesn't ..... What to believe?

Michael J.Bakke
WISCONSINBATSPECIALISTSINC. (Since 1979)