I have two pest control companies that are advertising for wildlife removal. I have checked one guy with state and no license found. How would you guys go about handling rogue wildlife companies. I am not really worried about loss of business since most cases we recieve follow up calls to fix the problem after fly by night companies, but curious if I should contact dnr or let them get caught on their own? Suggestions

I take it by your silence I should let them take care of them selves.........

I think every state has this same issue and it isn't just the pest control folks, there are a ton of unlicensed un-permitted wildlife operators as well.

Bottom line is that unless something flagrant happens and they upset a client, or they have a neighbor look over the fence or some such thing and
see their traps or gear and report them for some type of what they feel is abuse, they are not likely going to be "found."

I've never lived in a state where there were more than 1 game warden for tons and tons of space and lots of potential job duties to each.

So it comes back to you personally and how you feel. I think whatever you can sleep with is the most important. Many folks feel let them hang themselves though this is largely an empty threat.

You could always call each of them and discuss the permit requirements and try to put them on the right track. Check back in a month or so later and if they aren't in the system call them in?

Really everyone on here has probably mentioned this or been involved in a thread about it before, some don't want to burn someone else, some feel they will get caught on their own, and some don't worry about it.

I've talked to guys here in this state on the phone who told me they have been trapping and relocating raccoons and other wildlife all over the area to random locations for the last 20+ years and guess what....?

In my state that is illegal without a permit and only authorized locations are allowed for relocation if you do this type of work.

Best part, he was best buddies with the local franchise who does have a permit and does the bulk of the raccoon work, so this leads me to believe that most folks will never get caught unless they do something that causes damage to a home, person, property, or does something someone views as inhumane and calls them in and then they end up outed for not having a permit or license.

Hope that makes things clear as mud.



Justin

If someone is operating in a manner that is not legal you have two choices, either talk to them about it or report them. If you feel you’re not qualified to talk with them about the issue, report them so someone will talk with them. If you do give them a courtesy call and they continue to operate in that manner then you still need to report them.

In most cases, unless there is something very wrong with the situation (mainly animals dying in untended traps) all that will happen to them is a call from the regulatory officer letting them know the criteria they need to follow to do this type of work and telling them to become compliant. If you don't say anything then don't be surprised when nothing happens.

More importantly what this sets is the groundwork for action should they continue to provide services without the proper permits/licenses. The majority of overseers I know don't want to fill out all the paperwork required when there is a problem so they will give as much direction as they can before they come out guns blazing. If the company is stupid enough to not heed their direction, I think it then becomes a personal issue and they seem to go after those companies with a little more gusto.

An issue to keep in mind is that based on regulations, the license/permit may be under another individuals name instead of the company name so you may think they are not licensed when in fact they are. By contacting your regulatory authority about them, they can do the necessary research and it then becomes their responsibility to cover all the potential bases instead of you trying to do it with limited knowledge of the situation.

Great advice, Eric. Extending a professional courtesy is always a good way to build relations...but if non-legal matters continue it becomes a morale issue.

Now you've heard a couple of opinions and I will give you mine. I have a very fine working relationship with all our neighboring law enforcement agencies. And I'm sure one day I will call them to report a law-breaking competitor; but probably not in my lifetime! Calling an agency on a competitor always means more scrutiny on you and your company.

While your competitor may never get a fine, you've just raised your chances by a whole lot! You are much better off calling your competitor and lying in your teeth. Tell him that some third party that you never heard of has threatened to call the authorities because they are protectionists and want to make sure he is licensed for all the terrible things he is doing to wildlife. ( To be truthful, I haven't done this either, but doesn't it sound effective? )

Paul,

How dare you not agree with me...you're fired! No.... wait...., not until you've written a lot more articles for the magazine. LOL

I do disagree with you on this. Just because you've reported a potential issue does not mean you're automatically under the microscope. And even if you are so what? I've done nothing I'm ashamed of and I've done some stupid things just like anyone who's been around more than a couple of years has. But I've learned from them and if they want to fine me or take other action then so be it but I'm not going to keep my mouth shut because I'm concerned about what will happen to me.

In my mind, if it's come to the point of having to report a company and I don't I am just as much at fault so as they are.

Exactly.

I'm so sick of seeing posts like this. It pains me to even comment since I have typed out several responses so far then deleted them.

It's a friggen waste of time to complain in this state, no one gives a [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot]. I have for to long given our blessed DNR the benefit of the doubt and explained that they are understaffed and overworked but no more. I have met and talked with many in the dept. I fought alongside others in the turtle regulations to try and preserve some resonableness in the new regs, even after getting the exact perfect outcome for NWCOs in the very first meeting I held with it on the side of trappers and outdoorsfolk. The outcome was set in stone long before by the sorry no account idiots from Athens and their even dumber lackeys and bootlickers in the DNR. A more sorry and lazy bunch of worthless civil servants would be hard to find. Every penny spent on them is a complete waste of our taxpayer dollar and money thrown up a hog's [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot].
When John Jenson looks can't even look me in the eye (does he ever look anyone in the eye) and tells me "it'll never happen" when I ask when is the state actually get out from behind the computer and do an actual in the field headcount of just how many turtles we have in this state told me all I ever needed to know. A bunch of college trained idiots IMO.
Not just the DNR is at fault either, the Georgia Trappers Association is as worthless tits on a nun or balls on a priest. During the entire two year process not a single representative of the GTA bothered to even show an interest and when I pressed them on it their representative said "it didn't concern them". When I detailed that it did concern members of the GTA and that it is called turtle TRAPPING I got the evasive response that it didn't involve fur trapping and as long as it was under the radar.......and that rep was a not only a trapper but a permit holder and NWCO himself, fact is a large percentage of the GTA are permit holders.
If you think your fellow NWCO gives a [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] then you might be better off to hold out both hands and see which ones fills up first. Well maybe not that bad but take it from one who has squalled and screamed and cried and fought your beating your head against a wall, save yourself a headache. I was the NWCOA state rep for awhile and was all gungho for it until I realized just how little people actually care. I sent off emails to all 47 members of NWCOA in the styate at that time, tried to call each and every one. Out of less than a quarter of all the licensed NWCOs in Geaorgia that bothered to join the professional organization I onlyu recieved three return emails and several very non commital phone conversations.
I've called my representatives in Atlanta, visited with a few even, and got all the normal platitudes of interests and concern but the one that struck me the most was my long time serving rep saying point blank "you're absolutely right and something needs to be done but it's an absolute waste of time to try this in this house".
I've even talked directly to Commissioner Black and outlined the problems with the PCOs. While I will continue to support Mr Black as he is the best thing that has happened to the Dept of Ag since the dinosaur retired, he's a cattleman and not an industrialist and the Structural Pest Control Board remains unchanged (hint, do a little background on promises made to remove a certain PCO whose company shares his name and his current position on the board) and will as long as that power hungry bunch of collaberators remain in office. Oh and don't even bother to call the board to complain about a PCO. It's either the NWCO is the aggressor or we don't cover that, been there done that.

csims, I don't know you but would like to. The fact that you have taken the time to get yourself licensed and permited and that this concerns you speaks well of you. If you are serious abouyt persuing this you have my support and I will help you. If you want to really get a feel for what the situation is give me a call sometime and I'll have you crying in your beer. Seriously, give me a call I like networking and helping out the good guys. I've come to the conclusion of screw the DNR our only hope in this state is if we help each other. In that light I want to ask you to come on down to Moultrie in Oct, I've been asked and I will entertain the idea of talking to all the gathered Georgia NWCOs and see what we can do in this state.

Please don't let this thread get heated. I have made a personal decision not to let myself get that emotionally involved anymore it burns up energy better spent feeding my family.

throw them under the bus.....

David, every complaint that is part of their job of enforcement, gets investigated by the county DNR warden. ( At this time, I am happy to point out that our county does not have a DNR warden. ) What this means is that our county does not have enough reportable violations to support a full time warden. This also means that if there is a problem, surrounding wardens will handle it.

When I started I went to alot of pest control companies to let them know I was available for wildlife control. A few said they did there own. So I just asked them what there ADCO number was. Then I would get the deer in the head lights look from them. Some of them refer me now

Paul, maybe I should have clarified I'm not speaking of the rank and file conservation officers, they are underfunded and understaffed. We have to few to even think about ever having one of our jobs looked in on. Besides the deer, turkey and bass fishermen would squall if they thought officers were pulled off the poacher patrol.
It's the waste of oxygen biologists and non game side of the house that has me wanting to stage a one man taxpayer revolt. The worst thing that ever happened to wildlife management and conservation in this country was computers. I have yet to fathom just how computer modeling works when no one is willing to get their boots muddy.

It could be that there pest control license covers them. I looked into this a few years ago. The definition of a pest on their license may include wildlife if it is violating a structure. I decided that F&Wlife was a reg. where I gotmy license and they had a statute thru the dept. of Ag. where they could work on pest in or on a structure. If I made an issue out of it F&W might decide to walk away and let Agriculture regulate nuisance wildlife. We are a necessary evil in many of our regulatory agencies eyes and they will turn us loose in a heartbeat.
The pest control people have more money and lobbiest. I think I would heed the words of Admiral Yamamoto and not wake a sleeping giant unless you have a pest control license.
If the pest control industry doesn't have road blocks preventing you from getting a pest control license I would do that.
You will take much more business from them than they from you.
Go to the statute that gives them their license and read the definition of pest. They may be able to prevent you from doing wildlife on or in structures.
I think Robb can say much more than me on this subject. A similar case was won in California buy wildlife operators but it took a lot of money and a very ethical attorney.

I can speak for Georgia and say that a PCO license does not authorize a PCO to set traps for game, non game or furbearers a trapping license is still required. Our structural pest control act does allow a PCO to deal with birds, commensal rodents or squirrels that may enter structures but our game laws still require a license to set traps.
There is nothing in writing anywhere in this state that covers exclusion though.

Im with Paul W. on this one. We sorta police our own here in WI. Theres a reasion for that. If ya got something to say to someone, we just say it. Its much more respected than being a rat hiding in the shaddows.

Mike, when you come down in October I hope you have time to visit both Georgia's. Our rondi will be down south in the real Georgia, probably very similar to your Wisconsin but a lot warmer. csims and I live and work in the other Georgia or Chicago South. A kind word to your neighbor is a wasted effort.

Yes it does David. On many occasions I can remember putting miles on my feet at Benning thinking about how much it reminded me of parts of Wisconsin.

I spent a few months in Glenco when I was at the training center in 97 but didnt get off the compound much.

I do not stress about competition, good or bad. My blood pressure and business profit. Competition is good because the more the better to spread the word. You are not going to get every job, but when you learn how, you will get most jobs you need to get. That is the tipping point and that is when the fun begins.

Life is a lot more enjoyable when you're not worried about what other people are doing.

Man Oh Man David, this topic certainly got a good workout again. What you said about traps in Georgia pertains to Wisconsin as well. I'm sure the pest control guys never get asked for a trapping license even though they need one. I don't really get too upset because I've probably lost twice as much business to automobiles running over my target animal than I've lost to PC companies! We do like the fact that we all have both licenses. ( Even my daughter )

I have the same problem here in my area. A lot of what I'm trying to build a business on is the same thing that Joe Blow is doing for nothing or doing wrong.

But the core of the problem is is "Education". We have laws, rules and regulations covering what I do but if no one knows what they are, what good are they?

Example: In the state of North Carolina we, as Wildlife Damage Control Agents, are not allowed to relocate any animal in the order Carnivore. That is coons, coyotes, fox, bobcat, marten, mink, skunk and the like. Pretty much, any critter that will eat meat. But... I personally know an Animal Control office with the city who routinely catches and releases racoons! To start with, he's not even supposed to be catching coons! He's dogs and cats! This man should know better but NO ONE has ever told him before me! Now, this man is an employee of the city and has a job that deals with animals. He should know better!

Then, there is Harry Home Owner who's trapping squirrel and rabbit all summer long, hauling them down the road and turning them loose on the ditch bank. Granted, he has a right to protect his property, including his vegetable garden, but he does NOT have the right to dump his problems off on someone else. And I question the validity of his trapping with no permits. That is why I've been train and certified, to write the stupid permit when there is a problem! If Harry can trap what ever, when ever he wants, then why bother requiring me to be certified?

Then there are those trappers who are making a good living trapping beaver for lumber producers and such, year round, and getting paid good money to do it! I was told plain that before I could charge for trapping that I had to be state certified. Not just licensed, but CERTIFIED! I look up these jokers on the states web site and my name is the ONLY one that comes up! So I KNOW they are not certified. I don't blame them, really, cause they don't know any better.

Then there are those who are licensed for something else but think it's their job to do my stuff too. Exterminators are bad for this. They have license to kill bugs but think they can do a bat job too. Or, while they are there poisoning mice they chunk out some snake poison too. I've even seen where they put out poison baits for squirrels. Is any of this legal?

Turn them in? Report them? To who? To start with we don't have enough game wardens. One warden typically covers more than one county. Ours here, covers at least three counties, if not four. Same goes with the other game warden I know east of here. And what makes it worse is, they really don't know all the regulations either. Our Wildlife Resource Commission doesn't teach them the same things they teach us.

I could go on and on but it just gets me all knotted up. What it boils down to is this, legal or not, there are too many yahoos out there doing what I do without the proper credentials or even knowing the proper ways of doing it and no body really cares.

Muddawg, great post and I am truly amazed, and I'll explain why. nearly all the things that are illegal in your state, are legal in mine.

Homeowners have way more rights than licensed hunters or trappers. They can kill nearly everything that is a threat to their property. They can legally, also catch and release ( with permission ) nearly every species of animal. Just to give you an idea of how uninformed our citizenry is, check this out. Nearly all of our hardware type stores sell mole traps and sometimes they even run out. Why? there isn't a mole in the entire eastern half of Wisconsin. I have never seen a mole or even a mole trap set for them.

You would think that such lenient laws would nearly prohibit companies like ours but that is not the case. People have come to depend on plumbers, electricians, landscapers, and a host of other tradesmen. Once you get people to realize that you are part of this group of experts, you're going to be too busy working to even worry about anything else.

In Tennessee you are required to have a wildlife nuisance damage control permit in order to operate an ADC business. You are also required by law to be insured. I won’t hesitate for one second to turn someone in who is operating in my area illegally. This is a business, not a hobby. I have turned in people before in my area and the T.W.R.A put a stop to it. The T.W.R.A does an excellent job at following up on reports and shutting these illegal ADC companies down.

I keep in constant contact with the game wardens and the T.W.R.A officials and they have always encouraged us to keep them posted if an ADC Company is operating illegally. This is a very serious issue and must be treated as so. You can have the mind set of “well there will eventually get caught or I am not worried about them”, but if you do nothing, then nothing will get done.

Well... We just have to keep plugging along, doing what we do.

For the elderly lady on a fixed income, counting on that two or three hundred dollars she gets from selling a few pecans each year, I'm there to do battle with thieving squirrels.

For the young mother, afraid to sleep at night because a snake shed was found in her bathroom, I take flashlight in hand and crawl on my belly under her house looking for it.

For the old man trying to feed himself and his family with a few rows of sweet corn, I still trap his coons.

For the couple deathly afraid of the bats seen fluttering out from the vent to their attic, I come armed with excluders, bat houses and knowledge to put their minds at ease.

For the couple from church that have possums nesting under their storage building, I show up with cages in hand to remove them.

Even for the home owner who's watching the barn that their Daddy built sinking into a gophers den, I'm their again to remove them and fill up the holes under the foundation.

From a beaver filled creek flooding a landowners retirement fund to cattle growers coyote threatened herd, I stand ready to draw that line between Mother Nature and humanity.

These people need me. These people appreciate what I can do for them and for these people I keep doing what I do!

.... Man!.... That would make a GREAT commercial!

Hey Muddawg, our lives on earth are short. When St. Peter asks you what you did in your time here, you're going to be looking a lot better than most of us!

Just being a productive member of society. I didn't say that I did all that for free.

Well we decided to let them take care of themselves and rode by one of them today and the business has closed its doors. Funny how the companies that try to offer their customers 7 different services can't do any one of these well enough to keep its doors open. This company advertised 7 different services and has move on from Coweta county. Guess we made the right call.

I am always amazed at what crummy wildlife controllers most pest guys make; and yet nearly all of us find pest control a cinch!

@Warrior- STAY THE GOOD FIGHT DEVIL!! i have a guy that works for the state in GA, a "treehugger" and a non active mustang Grunt. let me talk to him and see if he can help ya out.

Here in oregon you need to take a test on diffrent anamals that you are targeting , all with fish and wildlife, once pasted you are register with oregon state police. you cant transport no anamals with out a permitt. you must carry your lic,and permitt on you on all jobs. CRITTER RITTERS WCO #100105

blow them in and let the law deal with them

Good thoughts, csims, Wink, Muddawg; I'm kinda with Eric in the "turn 'em in" camp; at the very least, the regulatory agencies - whatever they are called in your state - have a record of the infraction or complaint, and may keep a close eye on the perp's. Eric, I, Wink, Warrior, etc. have done this work for too long and invested too much in education and professional equipment to have Joe PCO trying to do WC.
I heartily agree about the companies that try to do multiple services, and don't do any of them well. Some people will do any darn thing they can charge money for; how often do you see a doctor or lawyer selling insurance or being financial advisors? I think it improves our image to be professionals in one industry only.

Case in point.

Two women who are of the AR thinking, were doing wildlife control work in the Philadelphia area a few years
ago. They were set up in a PGC sting and were fined somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000 for advertising their
busness with out a lisence. It is also assumed that they were not following PGC regs for puting down animals
that are required to be put down by PGC law.

Phil, do you recall this?

pick65

Oh, my... hard to believe AR types would break the law!