So who has something to hide or can't have a simple conversation?

Why was the PRESS RELEASE thread taken down?

A press release that says nothing is simply a uninformative press release.

Because some folks on here don’t have enough common sense to offer anything except negative comments!!! If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

Ron, I don't think I said anything at all negative. I just would like to know more about NWCOA dealings with the USDA and this guy that got appointed. What's wrong with that?

I will suggest that you join the NWCOA. Then you can have input into the solution! They are continually asking for assistance and suggestions.

Wow. Must of missed something. Thanks for keeping it clean LAtrapper as getting a voice on the NWSAC had been a long time goal by NWCOA and past NWCOA board members thought this would be a good place to let them know.

Paul here is Dr. Lanham's bio. He is a NWCOA member and the voice of NWCOA members on the NWSAC. Getting a NWCOA member and a "voice" for NWCOA on the NWSAC has been an ongoing quest by not only this board but previous boards as well. Dr. Lanham's credentials speak for themselves and NWCOA will be well served by such a member on the NWSAC.

Warrior, NWCOA only represents NWCOA members not the industry at large. I have not looked at updated members list did you rejoin? NWCOA will be having a meeting at the WILDLIFE EXPO, where through popular vote and delagate system, the direction of any number of issues involving NWCOA members and the direction of NWCOA with issues such as a class action can be addressed.

Bio for J. Drew Lanham, PhD
J. Drew Lanham, a native of Edgefield S.C., is a Certified Wildlife Biologist and holds the B.A. and M.S. in Zoology and a PhD in Forest Resources (wildlife ecology) from Clemson University where he is currently a Full Professor teaching and conducting research in the area of nongame wildlife management, land and conservation ethics, hunting and wildlife management, human/wildlife conflict and field ornithology. In his 16 years at Clemson Drew has mentored over 30 graduate students and is an award winning teacher and researcher. His research projects, generating over one million dollars in revenue have been funded by a diverse array of grantors including The National Wild Turkey Federation, USDA Forest Service, US Fish and Wildlife Service, The Audubon Society and the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources. The subjects of his work include herpetofauna, birds, small mammals, butterflies and increasingly humans and their relationships with nature. He speaks extensively on natural resources conservation to professional and lay audiences alike with a focus on blending science and motivating others to passionately observe and conserve. He is a co-host of a birding and nature show on SC Public radio and a contributor to the Emmy -nominated PBS television show Expeditions with Patrick McMillan.
Dr. Lanham is a member of the South Carolina Wildlife Federation Executive Board and serves as the organization’s affiliate representative to the National Wildlife Federation. He also serves on the Advisory Board of South Carolina Audubon, is a member of the Important Bird Areas Technical Committee, a Board Member of the Bird Education Network and on the Editorial Advisory Board of the Wildlife Professional. In his spare time, Dr. Lanham enjoys birding, deer and turkey hunting, golfing and writing creatively about conservation and nature. He has contributed to several anthologies including a retrospective on one of the great naturalists of the colonies entitled Bartram's Living Legacy; The Travels and Nature of the South (Mercer University Press 2010) ; about deer hunting in Outdoors Adventures in the Upcountry (Hub City Books 2010) and on travels to South Africa in The Colors of Nature (Milkweed Editions 2011). He is published in magazines including Orion, The Wildlife Professional , Forest Landowner and Palmetto Wild. Dr. Lanham's first solo work : The Home Place , Memoirs of a Colored Man’s Search for Self in Nature (Milkweed Editions), is due to be published late 2011, early 2012. An alumnus of the Whole Thinking Community and an inaugural Audubon Society Together Green Fellow, he is currently developing a research and outreach program to assess the land/conservation ethics of rural African American landowners.

And, he is a trapper…

Well,LAtrapper,I believe I asked some pretty specific questions (as a member)and then I became part of the "black helicopter" group.Dont you think putting his bio up and an explaination of why he was nominated in the first placed would have been "part of the solution"?

Steve Rouleau,

Got the run down on some of you concerns from deleted thread. Looking at .info and other NWCOA owned media see that you are not signed up. Also checked my GO email as well as asking a few other board members. None I spoke with has even received an email from you concerning NWCOA in anyway. I know you have never attended or even requested to attend any NWCOA board meeting while I have been the GO. Can't find you signed up as a volunteer for any committees or NWCOA group.

I have seen on this site where you have "female canine-ed" about NWCOA. You will get very little response from board members by posting on this site. With your concerns in last post "part of the solution" perhaps I can offer a real solution. Become active if you see an issue. Want to volunteer for the scientific advisory committee or any number of committees? Run for a board position? Hey we need help at the WILDLIFE EXPO and there will be a board meeting then. Want to volunteer at EXPO you need to clear about 8 days from your schedule I know we could use the help. We have members (who are not currently on the board) who sacrifice their time and help to better NWCOA. How would you like to volunteer?

In closing I am not an employee all NWCOA positions are unpaid volunteer positions. Don't complain because no one hunted you down to get your opinion on an appointment or issue. If you want to be involved get involved it's as simple as that.

Thanks Charles. That explanation was great. I wrote what I read on Goggle and you added to it. That sure beats deleting a column. I tried to act mature, as did David. If anybody else got crazy, I missed it. Hope we can can continue to have intelligent discussions. I figure since I just turned 70, at least I can act like an adult some of the time.

Ok Charles holt, how about mike tucker and Maureen lederer?I've spoken to mike through a pm and Maureen on the phone.So that is a lie that I havent spoken to anyone.Furthermore If you would like a conversation with me, my number is on the bottom of every post! Where's yours?

OK Steve Rouleau

It would be a lie if I said I spoke with Maureen or Mike "checked my GO email as well as asking a few other board members" which as you can see I did not, so before you accuse someone of lying please get it right.

But beyond that how would you like to volunteer?

PS;
My email and contact info is on most if not all NWCOA sites. But as Deb has just given me your number and a message to call you I will give you a call.

Paul,

Thanks. Over on NWCOA face book page got a big thank you from Tim J. I know he wanted a NWCOA member on the NWSAC.

Yes a great thing to be on the Committee, however I am very disappointed that NWCOA doesn't realize the Industry is represented by NWCOA weather you think or want them too. Either way it is good NWCOA is on the committee, just hope WCO's will be represented. It would be very good for NWCOA to express their positions and activity on the Committee and their positions towards USDA competition issues. Just news release type stuff. Best of Luck and congratulation.

Tim I understand and if it helps (as you know) the industry is represented through NWCOA by default as NWCOA is the recognized non profit trade association for this industry. Just speaking for the industry at large when we only have been elected by our members is over reaching in my mind.

I don't want to or would I personally feel comfortable speaking for a non-member. I also don't feel it is fair to speak for non-members when we have paid members. Not arguing the point with you just my personal feelings on subject. But if members direct me by popular vote to speak for the industry at large I SURE would do it personal feeling or not.

If NWCOA could end competition by WS services for it's members and thus ended it for non members it would be a win win. There are now two like minded members of NWSAC so if we can get heard over BIG AG the message will be to end competition. The current party in power could make that an uphill job but I believe Dr.Drew is the man to get NWCOA's message across.

Thanks.

Bickering on a public forum is ridiculous. Perhaps, there is just too much diversity in this industry to be able to work together on common goals.

Dave you are correct about the bickering part! I am appologizing to all of you for voicing my complaints with NWCOA publicly. I called Charles tonite and hopefully everything gets worked out.Charles holt seems to be genuine and truly concerned about the future of the wildlife control industry.NWCOA is not without problems,but maybe I can help fix them!?

There is a need to communicate as a diverse industry. But ADC guys need to move to the adc pro board forum, where the threads have some degree of privacy. This is business talk....not a hobby.

Dang,,,,,,,,, time to call in the Animalish Mafia......

Steve, you are absolutely right about Charles, the rest of the board, not so much.

Dave, what you said about privacy is absolutely true! If I were an Anti, I would have gained some wonderful propaganda from some of the arguments on this site and I, personally, would be the blame for many of them. My New Year's resolution is to take anything negative or any disagreements to Private Messages.

LT also has a valid point that when you tell us about something that has worked well for you, that you also tell your existing and potential customers the same thing. Now I realize that this means nothing to most of your customers, but come on, don't tell me that you guys haven't had a do-it-yourselfer that hasn't made an easy job ridiculously hard. Now I don't know about you, but if I were to blame, with my big mouth, I would kick myself squarely in the butt.

EXACTLY!

The ADC Forum needs to be secured (login required to read)...or you all need move to the ADC Pro Boards.

Ok I was not going to chime in about WS but since the door is open.. With all this talk about how maybe someone is in bed with WS or not, and with all the BS we went through with WS here in Mass. this year. I have to say I am a bit confused as to why they are invited to speak at any seminar. I love WCT and I think Eric is doing a great job but, Why is it that The Key Note Speaker is a state director of WS for OH and one of the speakers is with them also. As Tim J. always said we need to keep talking with everyone but I can't get my brain around giving them a forum to speak their dribble and lies. They need to go away and thats it. I will not be at WCT but not for that reason. I am a speaker at the Wildlife Expo and I can only get the time for one trip this year. I hope you all have a great time and I know it will be worth the money. I hope someone there asks them tough questions about whay they think they should be compeating with private tax paying busniess and puts them on the spot.
But all in all have a great time.
Don LaFountain

Don, that is my interest as well. Contrary to to some I am not seeing "black helicopters" everywhere. I am sure that to someone in charge somewhere it must make some sort of sense or fit the master plan and maybe I can't see the forest for the trees. All I can see from my little half acre of ground is that WS is a direct competitor to me and were the door open to me I could do so much more.
Could someone, somewhere please call me and at least let me feel that someone is even aware and concerned as I am. I'm not asking to be let in on the TOP SECRET plot to overthrow the USDA just something to reassure me that while I'm pecking away at my level to infiltrate the barriers to work somewhere someone is pecking away at the other end.
All this thread deleting and us'uns vs you'uns just creates in my mind bad thoughts about folks I think I should working with and not against.
This should never be about each other or groups or other such nonsense but how we are helping each other.

whats adc pro boards?

LT's site.

http://adcnetwork.proboards.com/index.cgi

That's what I'm afraid of. LOL

Don, David and others,

I want to post this just as a general info to anyone not too much in the know but also add some info for those who have been involved. There are several things in this thread that keep the wheels turning and I'm sure they do for many involved and those on the outskirts.

1) I am former WS (most of you know, some probably don't), having spent a decade in both operations, research and disease programs and serving in multiple states (MI, OR, NM, WA, AK) I've seen the program from many many angles.

2) I understand the competition issues that are of concern to nwco's and to a growing industry

3) I understand why WS isn't looking to just remove themselves from operation to allow private industry to attempt to replace them entirely.

4) I empathize with both sides and that won't change

So the things I wanted to address are as follows;

1) Meetings / Guest Speakers - I feel it is an offensive action to ask the same folks you want to remove from the ability to make a living at what they are doing, to come and speak, educate, provide training to an audience at either venue currently scheduled to have them there.

Just as a human being, the idea of having a guest speaker come knowing that the room is full of knives and daggers for his/her hide is frankly ridiculous.

Why then are they there? Because they are asked to be there and as I'm told they are providing a service they must render, whether they desire to be there or not. I asked this question recently of folks in planning for one of these conferences and that was the answer, because they must provide the service as part of their mission.

I still think it is horrible but know that WS probably doesn't worry themselves over it.

2) How do you change the current competition issue? Three options come to mind

a) change the congressional act they operate under to dictate a modified mission

b) get the management (admin level) to top down change the program from within to meet what nwco's want to see

c) get your district, or state level folks to play along with you within your state by working out your own deal or pushing
your local buttons.

3) I know that there are some huge contracts that folks want and many high profile deals that people want as well and that the industry
is growing in that direction where conflict will become more apparent.

I still believe that the average operator doing typical homeowner and commercial work will cross paths far less with WS than with the
several hundred competitors in some midwest and eastern counties.

Anyway, that is my .02 - I know why the debate rages on, but I think folks need to get realistic, and while I support any move politically
having someone on the advisory committee or even two people won't change the policy overnight, or even in a year or two, ask the anti's
that are on that committee about what they've pushed for and received and they are massive in member number and aren't fighting among
themselves like this group does daily.

Best,

Justin

The interface between competitors (whether it's two WCO companies or one WCO and one WS office) varies from state to state, or rather, from state director to state director. Some are underhanded and ruthless and feel it is in their best interest (job security) to disrupt/interfere/underbid any and all private WCOs in their area of responsibility. Call it arrogance, lack of trust, machismo, ego, whatever. Others understand the strengths and limitations of both their staff and those local WCOs and are willing to have a working relationship. I personally refer well over 100 calls to two of competitors every year, and even notify them when I'll be out of town so they know not to refer business back my way until then. The same thing happens between WS and WCOs in some locales, but apparently not in yours, Warrior, and that's a shame. There will always be competition, whether it's WS, PCOs, or other WCOs, but a working relationship benefits all, and raises the bar on professionalism and customer service, which in turn generates more business.
We in VA "thought" we had a great state director years ago and even invited him to our local "beaver camp", where the group would camp on some tree company land and trap for a couple weeks. During one of these camps this particular WS director found out a good portion of our leads and work came from the highway dept, so the next spring he secured a statewide contract with VDOT to handle all beaver work for them, cutting out 40-50 trappers that used to trap for the highway dept for free (or real cheap), and it has been that way ever since. Luckily he was transferred before any of us could get him alone and drop him to the bottom of a drowning rig. I can't say the damage he caused has been completely undone, but more and more localities are no longer contacting WS to do beaver work because their 3 or 4 operators just can't cover the state effectively like the old director promised VDOT. However, VDOT is stubborn and too stupid to decline renewing their annual contract. We (my company) have had a contract on some of their old stomping grounds for the last 5 years and WS will NEVER be able to take that away from us because we're just too d_mn good. We could be proactive and start proving our worth in other counties, but truth is, we have too much work just with this one city. If we ever want to expand our business and overtake other counties, it wouldn't be hard with our track record and glowing reports from current municipal customers.

It is not right for a govermnent to compete with private industry. However, until this industry comes together as a group of serious professionals, change is going to be an uphill battle. With the bickering among the groups and individuals...and documented on a public forum...really?

I appreciate the volunteers at NWCOA for their service, regardless of their personal positions. You have to have some passion to deal with the infighting.

Justin, do not worry, I will welcome the WS fella and I bet a few other guys will too. Now, how do we get that fiddle???

They go Because I have to, Justin that is not the full story I would suggest. The same reasoning is given when WS branches out and take over a large Beaver job that was begin conducted by Private industry. They say because I have to , this in regards to a request from any taxpayer they must respond. Truthful yes, also a great defense. WS is a Public program, ran by politics, always has been and always will. It will also ends by politics, if it ends. It has changed departments many times because of public pressure. It is the big picture that needs to change and until it does, if it does, the individuals need to be respected, communicated with and mutually benefited. One year I believe Bill Clay attended both big events and spoke to the groups. WS understands the benefit of public support. The division really has no need to be exist. Some of there functions are in deed governmental, majority are not. So boycotting them is not a fair or wise move. As some have mentioned above, we need to communicate and having a working relationship with those we can and do all we can as a group to redo the system. Pretty complicated issue and needs many minds talking and working together for any type of change.

Dave, you fiddle around too much now.

Okay guys: so how does one find out if Wildlife Services is doing any work in their area?

FOIA? Too busy to even care, though.

I was anti USDA WS before it was cool. I think it is always healthy to discuss them in public. None of us can compete with the public sector .

I remember not long ago few even thought the problem was as huge as it is in some markets. Keep TimJ, EricA, TrapperDon and NWCOA informed.

Everything USDA WS does is legal, not that what they do is right; this just means they have the federal authority to operate under the direction of Congress.

The kind of changes that need to be done will require taking a society that wants everything for free to want to pay for wildlife removal services.

Dave is right. Thats the Freedom of Information Act. It cost us well over $300.00 to get the info for work done in our state from WS for the last three years.
Don LaFountain

Don, I disagree. I was in Lexington when a lot of people ( including yours truly ) embarrassed the heck out of the president of the Humane Society of the United States. ( This organization is the most dangerous one in the USA, in my opinion )

Now maybe Ohio doesn't have a lot of competition from Wildlife Services and just wants them to tell us why other states do. But if WS is a problem in Ohio, who to better have as the Keynote Speaker?

Now if the NRA could get Biden as the Keynote, wouldn't that be something to witness?

I haven't been able to find out if WS is costing any private jobs in Wisconsin, but if they are, I will certainly recommend them as our Keynote Speaker for WWCOA.

Why were two individuals from WS invited to speak at WCT this year? Because of the knowledge they have and are willing to share.

Dr. Joe Caudell is more than qualified to speak on his two topics, zoonotic diseases and firearms. He is one of the zoonotic disease biologists that happens to work for WS. He is also one of the four individuals that created the WS firearms training program. With more and more projects requiring firearms, it only made sense to invite someone with the experience to discuss their usage in a wide variety of settings and species usage.

I was first introduced to Andy Montoney back in 2005 when he contacted me about a meeting he was participating with concerning the rabies barrier break in Ohio. The reason was he wanted help in getting test animals from the Ohio WCOs to determine how far the barrier had been broken. Since that time I have spoken with him on multiple occasions and while I don't agree with 100% of his views, I sure can appreciate them. Last year he spoke at WCT about Form 36 which requires WS to review actions taken and recommend solutions in order for a WCO to receive the permit to resolve issues with protected birds. This year he will be talking about incorporating shotguns into wildlife control. I am very happy to have both of these individuals as speakers, giving their time and knowledge making better operators out of the attendees.

As you can see, even through both Dr. Caudell and Mr. Montoney work for WS, their presentations have very little to do with their employer. The time and place to deal with conflict issues is during meetings being held specifically for that purpose. What I don't want to see happen is the exclusion from events of qualified individuals just because of their employment. That is a door that once opened would be very, very hard to close as it must include everyone from speakers to attendees allowing for even more separation in our ranks.

Good answer Eric. We all tend to put people in one classification and that never works. I think the fact that we are involved with actual people way more than we were as fur trappers, puts a different prospective on people in general.