The only logical answer, with Dew's argument, is that they euthanize the trapped bats. Otherwise, the process does not make a whole lot of sense.

HD Wildlife

I have a control operator in my area that classifies him self as a bat professional. His way is to show up in the middle of the night and seal up the house when all the bats are out for the night. He also uses excluber tubes. Then I get a call the next year stating the job was not done wright. As I'm doing the work on there house to fix the bad work or unfinished work I'll have the neighbor come over and tell me horror storeys about the same guy.

When I tell them that I can use traps the customer like that idea better, because they can see the bats being removed. Even thought I tell them that there is a chance that the bats may come back but not get in the house.

IN the last 10 years I have only had 2 call backs.

The fist one was in the city I did use both methods excluder tubes and traps. I did the seal up were needed as the home owner had done some on his own.I gave him a guarantee that the bats would not get back in. But I would not guarantee work done by another contractor. ON this house the home owner needed the soffits cleaned out and/or replaced when the other contractor did this they broke the seal at the roof line and did not reseal it. I removed over 300 bats in 12 hours the first time the next spring I got the call back the other contractor went good for the second go around.

The second call back was in the country I sealed up the house used excluder tubes only at the ridge vent. The house was 80 acres away from the pole barn with a shingled roof this spring the customer called up and had me come out and do the same thing to the pole barn. All the bats that I excluded from the house just went to the metal barn and gained entry threw the ridge vent's.


In the state of Michigan we can use them. If your in Michigan and do not like the idea then don't use the methed. But don't slam the guy that are. I use them not only for the coustamer but for my self I can get a better count of how many there are in the house, and for the wildlife report we have to fill out.

The only bats that I euthanize are the one were the home owner tells me that the bat got in the living quarters and landed on them in the night or if it was in a child's room. At this time there is a single bat not a colony.

Dew,

I'm slamming the tool, not the operator, though some may see it as both. The examples you used state that since the customer had a bad go round with a non professional doing not such a good job of sealing, is why the folks decided to use the trapping method you taught them about and of course it sounded better because you tell them it is a greater chance at least that they will find another spot.

The barn/house in rural landscape tells me that the discussion on the first trip didn't include telling them, if I exclude the house, they may just move to your barn. Same thing when I do pigeon work, if I do this part of your industrial complex they can still show up over there on that other area.

Folks understand this going in and decide whether to do the proper exclusion on all areas or just one for now and see what happens.

Same thing in sets of condos I have where bats are in one building of a series of 3 with 10 units per building. The folks know they are likely to move down, but some prefer the wait and see method then doing the entire complex at once, or due to finances can't do it all at once.

You still can't state that trapping has any benefit. If the MDNR wants a count of the bats provided by bat trapping I bet a few eyes reading this that you may not realize will soon be putting some stress on that system.

Any ethical non game or specific bat biologist should not and would not want you catching bats just to count them for them. I've met dozens of them from every state in the country in the last few years and can tell you that they are concerned with just how exclusion is performed with one ways, imagine if they knew guys are grabbing up hundreds at once and driving off in their pickup to parts unknown?

FACT: Trapping bats has no effect on the quality of exclusion/seal up work that is done at the same time.

Can anyone argue that point? Does the bat trap of any type DWL or otherwise exclude and seal the house for you too?

NO It Does not, you do that and if you aren't good at it, there will be re-entry, even if you are, there may be re-entry due to building
shifts, other issues, wildlife like woodpeckers and raccoons and squirrels making new entry points.

But please don't state that in order to be an effective excluder you must trap bats. This is factually inaccurate.

FACT: You are trapping bats because currently it is legally allowed.

MYTH: You are using the bat trap because it provides a better exclusion for the owner of the property (client).

Just to be clear, nothing you've said today is different than what you said in past "bat trap" debates, and nothing you said
makes this any less obvious to me as something that needs to get in front of the right audience. If the industry wants to
do bat work with proven methods this one needs to go and if you think otherwise perhaps in the next couple of legislative sessions
we will see just where the community responsible for bat management and conservation comes down on this issue.

Justin

what you are saying then we as control operator should not use any type of live trap at all. explain to me the difference using a live trap for bats and using a live trap for skunks, raccoons, or any other critter we handle. When ever you use a trap for any thing you are causing undo stress on the animal.

I'd ask you to back up a few pages and look at the discussion of this point, but I'll restate quickly for the record what I already stated earlier on.

We as an industry fight for rights to keep live traps, foothold traps, body grips, etc... as necessary tools, in case you didn't see that important phrasing I'll clarify.

Necessary. Meaning we can't do many of the things we do without these tools as the animals we work with often require capture, are nocturnal and whether folks are removing them lethally or otherwise based on their various state laws, these devices are used.

So now again in summary bats.

FACT: Bats don't create their own holes and voids in exteriors of buildings (wood, brick, stucco, etc...).

FACT: Bats capitalize on other species that create holes in houses and structures, or natural freeze thaw and building deterioration to open new roosts for them.

FACT: Due to facts 1 & 2 we need only exclude bats and seal the building properly to resolve the issue of bat colony roosting in a home or structure.

FACT: Proven effective methods for one way exclusion like you employ, like Dannel employs and the rest of the bat exclusion community employ are not only effective, but accepted by all including bat biologists, conservationists and so forth.

FACT: If you discuss why exclusion and one way with your clients and never bring up trapping, most will have never heard of the idea of that, and if they have, you simply and I mean simply, state, the proven effective way of dealing with bats that is the most utilized and accepted is one way systems (no matter which one way you use).

If I can help it I exclude anything I deal with rather than trap it, but I have traps and use them where appropriate and necessary as any professional would. I don't have or need a bat trap and neither do the bulk of the bat excluders out there, so why then is it used?

"Because I can," "Because I want to," "Because I like it."

How about if I liked setting 330's in the front yard of a clients home on main street or adjacent to a sidewalk, and in my state it was legal? Would that be a good idea?

Radical idea, right? Doesn't relate in your mind does it? But it does, because it is just as wrong to be catching hundreds of bats in a tiny box and claiming it is necessary or a benefit to the program you are operating.

So be truthful and admit it is not necessary and it is simply because you like it, not because there is a NEED to have it in your tool box as some would want us to believe.

Folks can bend this anyway they'd like I won't change my opinion no matter how many ways I may be thought to be some nut, I'm far from it, own every trapping device you can think of, have a collection of antique traps and my garage is full of old gear I rarely use anymore.

This device isn't on par with the devices you need for the other wildlife because those other wildlife can make and tear their own holes in structures, simple as that.

Justin

OK then if common sense was common every one would have it.

Fact: It's legally allowed in the state of michigan to use bat traps.

Fact: Given the chose between traps and tubes most customers would chose traps they want the bats gone.

Fact: I never said it's a necessary tool or because I can ,because I want to, or because I like it.

Fact : If every one were as knowledgeable as your self the would be no need for us control op's.

Fact : It's MY job to do the task at hand as far as bats to remove them from the dwelling.

fact : Your not going to convince me that it's not a effective method of control work that as of now I can use.

To me your the type of guy that would not allow the collorem for K9 control because the foothold works just fine.

Justin, I just feel the need to point out that there are unigue circumstances. Our one and ( As far as I know ) only bat trapping experience was out of the ordinary. The wealthy individual whose house had bats, took our bid, but then asked if there was a trap where he could actually see the culprits.

He paid for the trap and seemed delighted that we were smart enough to catch them. He had no objections to our letting them go because we replaced the trap with bat valves. Everyone concerned was happy with the outcome. ( Well, except the bats, They had to find a new home )

Paul, let me get back to you.

Dew, I own collarum can use and do use, so you are misguided as I expected, the response would be I'm of course a nut because I think that the bat trap is unnecessary.

The fact is to make it a banned or illegal device won't be done on this forum, much to the chagrin of so many, these forums are simply a place to air out issues, the real change happens in a legal environment or not at all.

However, as I said long ago in this post, this is about the resource and doing bat exclusion with typical methods without the trap requires no capture of entire colonies and therefore puts as little stress on the bats as possible, a bonus not only for the bats but for the image of our industry and what we do as operators.

I am working outside this forum on this issue, so I don't have any real concern for what is stated here, but can tell you there are thousands of folks interested in this thread and what is happening with "bat traps" being used for wildlife control with little or no oversight. These thousands are backed by thousands more and most occupy seats that do make the decisions on these types of issues.

So while I may engage in these debates with you and others like Dannel, ultimately I have no thoughts whatsoever that this is where the rubber meets the road.

May take a bit of time, year or two or three even, but remind me to have this conversation about what is legal and what is not related to the bat trap a few years from now at most.

Paul,

Your example though shows though that this was motivated by the client, not what you might have steered them toward that still would have worked.

So in the end while I get that you used it, client was happy.

You could have done it the other way, still had a happy client and used the other widely used methods that you use every day.

I think you are going toward Eric's point of it is in the toolbox and why not keep it there for certain situations.

I just don't think we need to apply that to this device or similar devices for bat capture when exclusion is what is being done and the device doesn't make the seal up or exclusion perform better, unless the operator is killing the bats he catches as was mentioned a few posts ago.

I don't let clients make choices that aren't aesthetic or related to an opinion being good enough, I am the professional as are you and the others on this thread, so why do we allow them to make that decision just because it might sound better to them in their minds?

They simply aren't the people with experience, so lets not enable the customer to tell us anymore than a mechanic would allow someone to tell them to replace with the wrong part, or an electrician would say, heres what I think, now you tell me what you feel is wrong with this circuit breaker?

Justin

Well if I told you that setting up that bat trap was faster or easier, I would be lying.

Thankfully, tubes are cheaper than buying a trap. There is no point to bat traps....you just need to take a little more time explaining the process to the customer. I have absolutely no need for bat traps. None.

Wow, I bet old Dannel is sure happy he posted this thread.

Unfortunately Justin, you have just probably shut down more conversation here than you will ever care to admit.

Who in their right mind would continue to post with an anti like you here?

Where do you get off with your high and mighty BS? I noticed it first on the relocation threads but you have certainly shown your true colors now.

If it was up to me you'd be banned.

Sgs,

If Ron and Paul or other admin feel I'm infringing on someone's rights they can pass that judgement and I've seen it done

Apparently you believe I should be banned because my opinions are based in my own experiences education and interest in the industry as a whole. Many folks likely agree with you, many others agree with me.

That is life and forums are just a water cooler to put your views and opinions out in the world.

If folks don't like my thoughts they need only skip reading them. I can't force you to read or take my opinion but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to share my opinion on this, translocation or any other subject.

I suppose you and a few others would prefer everyone to swim in the same general direction and not cause any major change even if it is needed in some areas?

I have been a member of this forum and trap talk since 2001, have learned, agreed, disagreed and I'm still here.

Maybe if I was raised different I could just drop these issues or shrug them off but I wasn't and therefore I stand for what I believe is right.

Period.

By the way calling me an anti is laughable.

Apparently anyone who considers animal welfare or control method based on humane nature of it is an anti.

Better start banning the guys using shade covers on their live traps or extra swivels in their chains too huh?

I respect wildlife as a general rule, respect the resource we are ENTITLED to assist in managing and the skills and knowledge it takes to resolve wildlife human conflicts lethally or non lethally.

I stand by Justin on this matter. If only I could get banned for agreeing...oh man...so much more time for sailing with Krier. T-Man is a habit that I could use help breaking. Help me, please!

Absolutely not.

I think you should be banned because you are an anti-trapper and are using your government connections to ban what is now legal trapping.

Yes it does Justin. You are an anti trapper and are admittedly working to ban what is now legal trapping.

You are an anti-trapper!

What could be more clear?

You are working to ban legal trapping and using your government connections to do so!

I don't understand why you are still allowed to post.

Same crap any other anti says.

How else would people learn the right way to do something? Conferences cost money.