Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4014920
09/23/13 11:31 AM
09/23/13 11:31 AM
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DaveK
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DaveK
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Why would anyone care about Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys? What's the problem?
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4015088
09/23/13 02:23 PM
09/23/13 02:23 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12 Western Montana
ADCofWMt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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well, I have had issues with them coming in after I have scheduled a job and just telling the land owner they will do it for free or for a lot less than I can afford to. Had that happen two years ago. Then I got a call back when he forgot his traps there and went hunting. Left a Coon in one for two days and she couldn't get ahold of him. Now keep in mind that at that time I was basically a glorified fur trapper myself, just getting into this side of things. But was at least attempting to be as professional about it as possible. Also fur trappers aren't going to be as knowledgeable of laws or PC methods.
Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4015131
09/23/13 03:01 PM
09/23/13 03:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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I am a fur trapper and my permanent job was a full time paid nuisance control agent. Some of the most dedicated,professional,fur trappers around here are the first to get called to handle a nuisance furbearer complaint because they know how to completely eradicate a problem furbearer. As far as the billy exterminator guys,I have seen those"so called professionals"educate more furbearers than they catch. Our trappers councils run nuisance furbearer control programs that bring in a lot of money to both the trappers whose line the complaint is on as well as bring in thousands of dollars every year to the councils to run the program and pay for the co-ordinator,with lots left over to go back to trapper education and furbearer management. On top of all this our provincial Federation provides 2 million liability insurance to all members when conducting nuisance furbearer control work in the province. The area of concern right now that we will work on is to open urban areas to furbearer management programs in season,and to give members of the federation first right of refusal to conduct nuisance furbearer work within urban areas(within their fur harvesting area) when they have taken appropriate training. The Federation has the mandate to manage furbearers in Ontario,be it nuisance or otherwise. We will not sit back and watch a valuable fur resource be relegated to Junk status.
Last edited by Boco; 09/23/13 03:06 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4015138
09/23/13 03:05 PM
09/23/13 03:05 PM
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DaveK
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DaveK
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I see. I look at it in terms of demographics. Some folks want top notch service, liability insurance, workers comp and are willing to pay for the protection. Other folks have nothing to protect...cant afford an ADC professional...or don't place much value on trapping the critter. I don't see any harm in fur trappers doing ADC work. However, I am not sure that folks that hire uninsured people ADC/Fur Trappers understand the risk to their personal assets. For this reason, their ought to be higher standards if you are doing work for someone.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: ]
#4015198
09/23/13 04:07 PM
09/23/13 04:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743 Ashe co. mountains n.c
trapmando
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743
Ashe co. mountains n.c
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Wow, what ignorance. first noone starts out doing ADC work and is so called top notch. There is a learning curve in every aspect of work. You may think you were superior, in your own mind. Now who are you to say who can have an ADC business. Last I heard this is a free enterprise country. Granted there is a few on here that are Top of our field of work. You have the years and years of experience. As for customers, it is up to them to look into each and every contractors license and insurances and any and all qualifications. We all are trappers of some sort. Lets all get along.
A trap is only a trap if you dont know about it. If you know about it, its a challenge
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4015243
09/23/13 04:32 PM
09/23/13 04:32 PM
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DaveK
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DaveK
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I think you misunderstand. I was describing trappers that get an adc license to fur trap out of season. I assumed that they do not carry proper insurance to protect a customer. Why would a fur trapper need it???. I do not have a problem with free enterprise. A person could provide top notch service on day one....as they may hire an experienced fur trapper or adc tech right out of the gate.
My post was not to belittle anyone.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4015282
09/23/13 04:54 PM
09/23/13 04:54 PM
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DaveK
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DaveK
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Fur trappers are sure a sensitive bunch. But, I understand why it is so. Let me put it this way....
Fur trappers are like an artist. ADC guys are like a painting company. A person may decide to hire an artist to paint their home because they has a creative talent that was developed over many years. However, the artist doesn't carry workers compensation insurance because he normally works for himself...painting masterpieces. If he get's hurt on a ladder....who pays for his medical? The customer. If he spills a can of paint on the floor - oops! Who pays for that? Well, I suppose he cleans it up the best he can. But, aside from the risk, that painted mural on the wall can't be beat!
A painting business is (or should be) set up with a different mindset. Generally, they are set up with liability insurance to cover injuries. They carry liability insurance to cover damages.
That said, an artist can certainly own a painting business. The difference between an artist and how a painting company approach providing a service is different. One is not better than the other. However, the way that they "think" or "operate" is different.
Anyway, think about it some.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: ]
#4015306
09/23/13 05:07 PM
09/23/13 05:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743 Ashe co. mountains n.c
trapmando
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743
Ashe co. mountains n.c
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Dave, Iwwas not directing my rant to you at all. Thank you for your rendition of the Painter and Artist. But you are correct with it. I just recieved from 1 of the timber companies that I do work for requesting a new contract and if I agree they will need anothey year of insurance coverage and workers comp paper work. This being only my second year in business, it is very much a learning precess. Like I said....No one starts out the being the best...Thank you Dave...Wait, this is only my forth year trapping.
A trap is only a trap if you dont know about it. If you know about it, its a challenge
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4015325
09/23/13 05:27 PM
09/23/13 05:27 PM
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DaveK
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DaveK
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I trapped my first critter 35 years ago for dinner with my Dad. 8 years in business myself.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: trapmando]
#4015422
09/23/13 06:42 PM
09/23/13 06:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509 South Dakota
TravC
"MCnasty"
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"MCnasty"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,509
South Dakota
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Wow, what ignorance. first noone starts out doing ADC work and is so called top notch. There is a learning curve in every aspect of work. You may think you were superior, in your own mind. Now who are you to say who can have an ADC business. Last I heard this is a free enterprise country. Granted there is a few on here that are Top of our field of work. You have the years and years of experience. As for customers, it is up to them to look into each and every contractors license and insurances and any and all qualifications. We all are trappers of some sort. Lets all get along. you said it straight i agree some guys sit back and complain that only they should be considerd as adc men to them all i can say is up yours when you divide the ranks expect the opposition to conquer same goes for ws and private guys but what do i know im just a dam govment trapper one of the guys who you all claim hides under your bed or some such nonsense sorry bs strikes a nerve with me sometimes
Last edited by TravC; 09/23/13 06:45 PM.
There i said it....
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4016234
09/24/13 01:44 AM
09/24/13 01:44 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12 Western Montana
ADCofWMt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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I am still somewhat hesitant to call myself a true ADC as I am still in the process of getting established. I am definitely a fur trapper in season.
I do have a bit of an issue in the are that it seems almost all fur trappers claim to be ADC trappers to. Fur trapping techniques may or may not apply. I was doing a skunk job a couple months ago. Got to talking to the neighbor. She had had a "guy" that did some "Summer ADC" as he described it take some Woodchucks out from under her shed. He put Conibears in all the holes. Yes he wiped out the Groundhogs. But he also violated several laws and is extremely lucky he didn't kill one of the cats that also live under her house and shed. Not sure where the line is. I guess I just wish they would be a little more careful with the name ADC. Much as some "Trappers" should be called poachers and not Trapper.
Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4017075
09/24/13 03:58 PM
09/24/13 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,432 Georgia
warrior
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,432
Georgia
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Guys, my biggest beef is not with fur trapping, trappers or tradition. Here in Georgia us NWCOs are lumped in as fur trappers, commercial trapping license, and offered a FREE NWCO permit, after passing a simple questionaire, so basically. NWCO in Georgia is a fur trapper with special privileges. As a result any effort to change requirements; strengthening the testing, training in non furbearers, insurance and customer service standards; must go through the same process as amending trapping seasons or tools. Of course one can imagine how the straight fur trappers react to that. Because we NWCOs are bound at the hip to fur trapping here we will never be allowed to stand alone as an independent industry. All the while the PCOs are acquiring the permit so that when the break is finally made it will have to follow the Florida model.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: warrior]
#4017154
09/24/13 04:26 PM
09/24/13 04:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743 Ashe co. mountains n.c
trapmando
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743
Ashe co. mountains n.c
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I thought there would be more opposition to this crap ^ If you pass a little test isn't going to make you a better ADC man or company, or make you superior customer service. It will not help you catch a trap shy coyote or beaver either. All the companies that we work for or have contracts with require us tu have liability and workers conp insurance and some require additional insured. Those without will be weeded out and eventually gone. Maybe some are worried about losing business, but if you are that good you won't lose any. The way I look at it is ADC is another avenue of the trapping industry just like for buyers or trap supplies and sales.
A trap is only a trap if you dont know about it. If you know about it, its a challenge
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018002
09/24/13 10:26 PM
09/24/13 10:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,875 Gainesville, Alachua, Florida,...
Robb Russell
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,875
Gainesville, Alachua, Florida,...
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Demographics I would guess. I don't get to see the big city operations. Geography too! I am pretty sure if I never relocated to Florida in my high school years and stayed in Michigan I probably would. But I never sold a pelt in my life either but this is Florida - no demand.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018269
09/25/13 06:11 AM
09/25/13 06:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743 Ashe co. mountains n.c
trapmando
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 743
Ashe co. mountains n.c
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I may be wrong but,if you drive a truck for a living,you are a truck driver. If you work on roofs for a living, you are a roofer. If you butcher pigs for a living, you are a butcher. If you catch critters in a TRAP for a living, you are a TRAPPER. You caan call it what you want to, but your still a TRAPPER. Period
A trap is only a trap if you dont know about it. If you know about it, its a challenge
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018305
09/25/13 07:06 AM
09/25/13 07:06 AM
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DaveK
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DaveK
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What if you exclude bats, apply pesticide, install chimney caps, cull deer, pick up road kill, install bird barrier, clean out attics, install insulation, repair homes....
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: trapmando]
#4018371
09/25/13 08:02 AM
09/25/13 08:02 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,875 Gainesville, Alachua, Florida,...
Robb Russell
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,875
Gainesville, Alachua, Florida,...
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In business never leave money laying on the table !! Most of the WCOS I know consider themselves problem solvers more then trappers. You would be a trapper if all you did is trap, trap, ,trap then you would be a trapper. Selling your furs and meat and living off the land and grid. Few of us left in North America fit my definition. You need a few more skills other then trapping to survive in the business world of today. Most WCO's would starve if they just offered trapping as their one and only skill. Most ADC guys and WCO's get it that the offending animal may make the phone ring but its all the additional services you need to offer to keep the doors open.I concur 100% with WARRIOR and DAVEK Remove honeybees and stinging insects, search for snakes, consult for habitat modification, haze geese and vultures, rescue injured and orphaned wildlife. When I do set traps I target more non furbearers like squirrels, chipmunks, armadillos and cats than I do furbearers.
Trapper I may be but fur trapper I ain't. What if you exclude bats, apply pesticide, install chimney caps, cull deer, pick up road kill, install bird barrier, clean out attics, install insulation, repair homes....
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018386
09/25/13 08:16 AM
09/25/13 08:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,590 SW Pa
Bob Jameson
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trapper
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Posts: 7,590
SW Pa
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We also provide psychological support to our clients so we have to add that to our list of duties. How many fruit cake cases do you run into thru the course of a year.Paranoia and phobias to name a couple that some folks have issues with. We get lots of practice here putting folks at ease and educating them to what is real and fictional. Some are an on going shrink session. You almost need psychiatric schooling to deal with some of these people.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018467
09/25/13 09:20 AM
09/25/13 09:20 AM
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DaveK
Unregistered
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DaveK
Unregistered
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I can't say that I ever sold a pelt.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018652
09/25/13 11:40 AM
09/25/13 11:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,243 NWWA/AZ
Vinke
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,243
NWWA/AZ
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I am one with my two selves..............
Slightly used Shoes 4 sale……………
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018691
09/25/13 12:15 PM
09/25/13 12:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111 NM
HD_Wildlife
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111
NM
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I agree 1,000% David. We don't have what you have there, though we do have a permit that we are required to carry for protected furbearer species if we are going to capture, handle, relocate or euthanize (as law permits). To be told I have to carry a trappers license would indeed put me in a category with fur trappers and though I was once a fur trapper, I do nothing remotely related these days.
The govt. agencies that manage fish and wildlife state wise in some states are well educated on this issue and in others it seems folks just want to lump it and call it "nuisance trapping" when as displayed in this thread there are folks all over this continuum and though some do mainly "trap" others do only a small element of trapping or a portion, rather than mainline.
In terms of marketing and being a business, in some states folks might instantly think I need a trapper when they have a wildlife problem, whereas in others hearing you run a wildlife control business might not bring "trapper" to mind.
To each his own, but to the regulations and differentiation end of things I'm in the boat where I call myself a wildlife management and consulting company and if I listed what I do, you'd not see trapper present in my current business model. I have a few hundred traps of various types that cover the spread in my "warehouse" but the closest I come to "trapper" is urban coyote issues and usually that involves more community meetings and education and site visits than it does actual paying clients who need control or removal.
I don't mind saying I'm in favor of training, I'm in favor of standards, I'm in favor of a professional image for the industry (not talking about your uniform or lack of) and I'm in favor of states requiring a bit of license and permit to show you are a professional.
I know that rubs many people the wrong way as its seen as big brother telling you what to do, or you don't need some piece of paper to tell you how to do the job, or what are they going to do with my fees I pay thats worth my dime, etc...
I'm in the other camp and will remain there, so many industries have codes, plumbers, electricians, construction, etc.... it helps provide some guidelines and to me that is the basis of a good solid presence in this country.
I too have seen a ridiculous amount of bad acts in the last 3 years since launching this company and though I won't put them here for folks to use against this industry as bad examples, they are folks who admitted to clients they really didn't know what they were doing in some cases and in others they flat out lied until called out on it after things went south.....
We all know it happens, why then do so many fight against getting folks some training and help just as folks try to do on this forum when someone new asks questions about how to best live trap a woodchuck, or evict flyers, or bats, etc....
Training should not be a scary word.... And standards should not be either, as I've said before, you had to take a test to hunt and trap in every state I've lived in, why then should an industry not have to do so to work with wildlife?
Justin
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4018830
09/25/13 02:30 PM
09/25/13 02:30 PM
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DaveK
Unregistered
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DaveK
Unregistered
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I carry a builders license...but does that mean that I am a builder? The license is for the activity performed....not what you are.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4019063
09/25/13 05:09 PM
09/25/13 05:09 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12 Western Montana
ADCofWMt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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So Paul, Just curious. Was there much ADC work involving Dinosaurs? Would imagine they could raise havoc with a garden.
Last edited by ADCofWMt; 09/25/13 05:10 PM.
Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4019074
09/25/13 05:15 PM
09/25/13 05:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843 NH
sgs
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
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The only thing I have to add is that if you looked at the success rate of full time ADC companies, I think you would be amazed at how few fur trappers make up the people in those companies. I am seriously wondering if even 10% of the people involved full time in this business ever sold a hide? Full time/Part time. In my area, most wcos are part time. There's a lot of licenses out there and most do it on a part time basis. Don't count out the part timers. It's probably true that the inner city guys would be less involved with fur but what about everyone else?
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: DAVE SALYS-CWCP]
#4019086
09/25/13 05:20 PM
09/25/13 05:20 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12 Western Montana
ADCofWMt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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So Paul, Just curious. Was there much ADC work involving Dinosaurs? Would imagine they could raise havoc with a garden. Paul was so good at what he does he was the cause of their extinction. Better not say that in from of Footloose, They may use it as evidence!
Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4019099
09/25/13 05:26 PM
09/25/13 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361 mequon, wisconsin
Paul Winkelmann
OP
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OP
trapper
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
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ADC, since you're a Montanain, you might know the name Edward Hebbe III. He's a Deer Lodge resident and one of my best friends. He could fill you in on some of the older dinosaurs, since he's a few years older than me.
sgs, like you said earlier, has to do with location, I guess. The only part time ADC guy that I know, works for us.
warrior, first .22 I ever bought was a J.C. Higgins automatic. I can't even remember what happened to it.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4019130
09/25/13 05:42 PM
09/25/13 05:42 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12 Western Montana
ADCofWMt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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Paul, I have run into Mr. Hebbe a few times. He taught at my trappers education course a few years ago. He is a good friend of my fur trapping partner/teacher. He is one of the few good old trappers that are left. Not one of these Yuppy trappers we seem to have a lot of now. If memory serves right he has a nickname "The drive by trapper".
Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4019674
09/25/13 10:33 PM
09/25/13 10:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 30 St. Louis area
Dave Schmidt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 30
St. Louis area
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I'm pretty much in step with Robb, DaveK and Wink. The way I see it is that WCO's are somewhere between PCO's and fur guys. We do a type of pest control - in all its variations - but, like fur trappers, lean heavily on knowledge of the quarry and its control, much more so than do PCO's. My impression is that PCO's rely heavily on chemical solutions rather than knowledge of the animal being controlled.
Last edited by Dave Schmidt; 09/25/13 10:33 PM.
ALL OUT Wildlife Control
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4019721
09/25/13 10:57 PM
09/25/13 10:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2 Oxford, Michigan
Aaron Curtis
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
Oxford, Michigan
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The only thing I have to add is that if you looked at the success rate of full time ADC companies, I think you would be amazed at how few fur trappers make up the people in those companies. I am seriously wondering if even 10% of the people involved full time in this business ever sold a hide? ( On the bright side, this has a WCT story written all over it. ) Based on the conclusion you have drawn what does this mean to you? Fur trappers are not successful as ADC guys?
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4020149
09/26/13 09:46 AM
09/26/13 09:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 69 Central Ohio
Dirk Shearer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 69
Central Ohio
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We just went through the separation (creating a specific license) for NWCO work here in Ohio. It was certainly a rush job and not everything is exactly as we would have liked. Legislation was introduced by the pest control industry that we felt would not have been in the best interest of the Nuisance Wildlife Industry. We ended up working with the Ohio Pest Management Association, Ohio State Trappers Association, USDA Wildlife Services, and the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, Division of Wildlife. Basically, the legislature gave us less than two weeks to work it out or they were going to pass whatever they wanted!!! Compromises were made by every party involved and we came up with a new working program. One of the major problems with the previous "permit" was it was almost impossible to revoke. In order to remove it, if the individual were to challenge the loss of their permit in court, was that it was simply a permit. You would have to have a judge revoke an individuals consumptive use hunting and fur-taker licenses to truly take their permit. Now we have a stand alone license, testing, and a means for certification. There is a structure in place for revoking a license for violation of the law. It still doesn't mean someone is operating a legitimate business, as there are other licenses required to run a commercial enterprise in Ohio. If you would like to see what was done in Ohio visit www.owcoa.com and follow the link to read the laws that were adopted. Don't know if this helps. Warrior, this may be good reference material for what to do in Georgia. BTW I am a NWCO with a consumptive use background and still try to participate in that as much as I can.
Dirk E. Shearer, President The Wildlife Control Company, Inc. "Cause if you won't put your real name on it, you probably shouldn't hit send"
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4023304
09/28/13 12:48 AM
09/28/13 12:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,271
james bay frontierOnt.
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In Ontario,we dont care who does the bugs and bats but furbearerer management, whether for fur or nuisance(because fur harvest is not currently allowed in some urban areas)is the responsibility of the federation of Ontario trappers.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4023456
09/28/13 07:59 AM
09/28/13 07:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 247 rhode island
ritrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 247
rhode island
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All I'm saying is that trying to find and hire a trapper with an outgoing personality is as hard to find as an honest politician. I think that plays a major part in the transition from fur trapper to nwco. Dealing with the customers in a business-like and friendly manner, being able to feel customers out,joke around with them and find some common ground for conversation is a big part of getting and keeping customers. They don't want a guy that just shows up, sets up his traps, spits some tobacco on the ground and tells them how he can catch any animal that walks the earth.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4023710
09/28/13 11:30 AM
09/28/13 11:30 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12 Western Montana
ADCofWMt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 12
Western Montana
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7 years in retail helps with customer relations. Not by any means in liking people more!
Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4024099
09/28/13 05:51 PM
09/28/13 05:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361 mequon, wisconsin
Paul Winkelmann
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
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Boco, as a fur trapper gone ADC, I kind of went along with Ontario's thinking. Since my son has taken over, I now realize what he is going through trying to run a full time business, especially in a northern climate.
I had read, on many occasions, about how easy it was for ADC guys to do pest control. Now being a pure animal guy myself, I had to kind of get my feet wet to see that, and yeah, after capturing raccoons, yellow jackets were fairly easy, at least for me.
Now bear in mind that our employees are really kind of interested in only one thing and it's called a paycheck. If they can catch raccoons, squirrels, spray for stinging insects and rebait mouse boxes at the same site, financially, that's as good as it gets. ( I know because I've had one of those for the last 14 years )
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4030173
10/01/13 11:29 PM
10/01/13 11:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 30 St. Louis area
Dave Schmidt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 30
St. Louis area
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Wink, next to WC, yellow jacket work is like printing money, long's you take a few basic precautions. batman, are you saying that WCO's will take a job under the table knowing the customer doesn't want to pay the going rate? That's despicable; like having a surgeon tell you he'll do your appendectomy in his basement for $200. It hurts everybody, including the customer.
ALL OUT Wildlife Control
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4035808
10/05/13 06:53 AM
10/05/13 06:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 129 Dudley NC
Muddawg
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 129
Dudley NC
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I started out as a fur trapper. I dealt mainly with beaver.
After getting so many calls to trap beaver for this one or that one I realized that I couldn't do it without some compensation. But, I was told that with just a trapping license I could not charge for my work. SO... I went and took the Damage Control class, paid my fee and got certified.
Now, I'm trying to run a business but keep finding that there are a LOT of trappers, with only a trapping license, who are getting the bulk of the work and charging WAY more than I do to do it!
It's funny when I think about it. Before, I was getting calls for beaver right and left. Now that I'm a "certified" professional, I'm chasing squirrels and bats and the fur trappers are still getting all the beaver jobs.
Just don't seem fair somehow.
Muddawg
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4036447
10/05/13 05:39 PM
10/05/13 05:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843 NH
sgs
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
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I do appreciate the complete change of atmosphere however. Amen to that. Wackin' squirrels gets old quick for me. I really appreciate the handful of beaver jobs I get. Wish I could get more.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Dave Schmidt]
#4038904
10/06/13 11:36 PM
10/06/13 11:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 0 North Carolina
NCbatman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 0
North Carolina
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Wink, next to WC, yellow jacket work is like printing money, long's you take a few basic precautions. batman, are you saying that WCO's will take a job under the table knowing the customer doesn't want to pay the going rate? That's despicable; like having a surgeon tell you he'll do your appendectomy in his basement for $200. It hurts everybody, including the customer. Its happening all the time here in NC....mainly because the Wildlife Commission has their system set up to refer the public to the "non charging" fur trappers..who actually do charge for the work. I'm not a fur trapper nor am I a coyote/beaver/muskrat/nutria trapper...I deal with the "in your house critters"...so I don't have much of a dog in this fight. But I do hear my peers complaining.
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4039219
10/07/13 09:01 AM
10/07/13 09:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 129 Dudley NC
Muddawg
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 129
Dudley NC
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NCbatman,
You may know,... Did the laws change after I got my certification or have I been misinformed? The understanding I had when I went into this was that I could NOT trap beaver out of season OR charge for my work without being certified.
But I know a lot of trappers doing it and year round.
Muddawg
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Re: Fur Trappers Masquerading As ADC Guys?
[Re: Paul Winkelmann]
#4039348
10/07/13 10:26 AM
10/07/13 10:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447 Monroeville NJ
Jonesie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,447
Monroeville NJ
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I think a lot of us got into this field from fur. I know I did. I was playing with depredation work in 79, y real desire was to be a long liner. when the fur crash came in the early 80's my sights changed. and squirrels soon became my target critter. ( with the help of my wife and some little ones grabbing my legs) I can remember being at a wct in the 90's with Mike Page Fred Stine and I believe Bob Jameson was as also in the group. and some one saying that we was the new professional trappers.
With the economy the way it is, the last few years, the good trapper or even not so good trapper are jumping on board. along the animal lovers trying to save the baby polyesters, now add in the landscapers, roofers (#1compatistion in my area and has NO idea) pest control, town animal control and deer hunters trying to gain land for the big boys.(I call them groundhog wonder boys) LOL (they know there are groundhogs there but wonder how to take care of them) LOL
In the big picture for me here in NJ, I don't worry about the trapper taking a few coon in the winter. heck I keep them to! that is when jobs come in, My coon calls start when the fur is not prime anymore for the most part, other areas may be different. The farmer is not going to pay to have the coon, coyote or fox taken, and the trapper is not going to trap too much there in the off season, as they are only cutting their own throat. So I am not losing there. so the trapper is not hurting me. who is hurting me Bad, more than anyone else is the landscapers and the roofers, they do wildlife control as a side to get the big job. Yet know nothing about laws or the animal Nor could care less about knowing law or the animal. Lawn care do mole and ground hogs to get the long term landscaping, Roofers do the bang and chase thing on squirrels, coon and Bats to get the re-roof and soffits jobs. Ever see a roof not to a complete roof ad soffit job in June because of baby bats? they get the call first, The average person in my area Urban and suburban areas has no concept of wildlife. they don't even think about wildlife control, they call the business that deals with the spot. IE roof line or attic Roofer, Hole in the yard Landscaper. The only people that have common sense to the wildlife problem call wildlife control is the poor people and they don't want to Pay LOL Here in NJ we have no Lic to do wildlife just a permit. those of you that have the lic, the only people you are stopping from doing wildlife are the people that want to do it only or charge for the service. the real problem people are the ones that do wildlife as a no charge to get the bigger job. look at how many roofers and lawn care services you have in your areas, and see how many of them do wildlife. the people doing it and not seen as doing it are the real problems.
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