I thought of that after I posted but I think it's more than likely Georgia would have coyotes even if there were no live market.

In Georgia do you have to prove damage before you can trap them?

Correct. You're talking to a guy who kills hundreds of "things" every year..... a couple hundred in commercial wildlife control and hundreds more during fur trapping season. If I somehow came across as an anti-lethal method supporter.... sorry about that!

Any coyote that sees a human and doesn't run has become socialized, and needs to be killed. I hate it when anyone says something cant be done. That's just silly! Maybe we didn't kill ALL the wolves in Wisconsin, but we put one heck of a dent in the population for quite a few decades. I'm not a wolf hater, but I am partial to dead coyotes.

No closed season on coyotes here. No requirement on any species to be ruled a nuisance, save deer, bear and turkey.

Mike,

Coyotes and all other urban wildlife do become "socialized" to basic views of people, dogs, cats, traffic. Not running from these things doesn't mean they are a threat it just means they learned what is and what isn't a threat to them.

I tell people all the time of urban coyotes were scared of seeing a human we wouldn't have any urban coyotes they would be unable to function in these areas.

If any animal who doesn't run in terror was a threat we'd be killing a ton of wildlife with no particular reason for it.

By the very nature of the term urban wildlife they are animal populations who have grown accustomed to the point of living near people and exploiting these rich environments as your video shows.

Nearly every urban coyote call we get from within the city some knucklehead is feeding these animals somewhere within their home range. This is what causes a breach in the distance these animals keep and brings in the possibility of real threats.

Range expansion by coyotes is akin to opossum and others who have moved naturally though I'm sure humans in some cases have exacerbated it like with live market accidental releases. A native North American species like the coyote is not considered invasive like feral hogs, pigeons or nutria, rather a natural movement and expansion of a native.

Like Ron said no problem with lethal removal just believe there shouldn't be people still creating the problem at the core and continued removal for those folks who won't cure their problem causing.

Interesting discussion though.

Wink,

Didn't want to skip over your post, I don't have any issue with folks wishing they could rewind the clock to a certain time biologically speaking.

If I didn't want to hear statements like "I wish we didn't have coyotes" I would have never become a wildlife biologist, it is the nature of the beast
for people to want or not want certain things on their landscape.

While one person may love deer, the next hates them because they eat their roses, while one loves the sound of wolves howling, the next knows that
means dead cattle or elk.

The most important thing I've learned is to always see the other persons view even if you don't support it or believe in it, you should teach yourself to
see with their eyes so you can better debate and understand.

I see this all the time with advocates from both polar extremes, hunting / anti hunting, trapping / anti trapping, the folks on the polar ends are the ones who debate poorly and the ones that result in the most loss for their side in terms of logic and things getting overly emotional.

While I grew up in a consumptive use family on a farm hunting and so forth, I can certainly understand the person who is vegan and can't wrap their minds around my mind set.

I drive through neighborhoods of people every day as most of us do, how many houses on any given block can you get to agree on anything?

Very few... with wildlife it is the same. The rubber meets the road somewhere in the middle and I like to live there myself. Not on the fence, as I'll gladly debate an issue right into the ground as many of you are well aware, but my shop runs on finding solutions that I can believe in and that have a basis in science and sociology as well.

***
Back to coyotes, their adaptability allowed them to succeed when wolves and other large carnivores were extirpated and removed by our forefathers. The coyote is truly a survivor as the video talks about, as we settled the country we helped coyotes as much as we tried to kill them off. We removed the other wildlife that killed them or kept them in a balance, thus at this point like it or not we did help them become your back yard canine!

To the points about feral cat eating and deer control and goose, they do all of these things, it is fact, doesn't mean they can overcome the sheer number of these animals being born and entering the population. Scat analysis doesn't lie and in most states you will find hunters killing coyote because they know their fawn numbers are effected. To what level, who knows but it is proven....

I can't! While proper upbringing has taught me to be quiet and respectful of others who are idiots there are just some concepts so at odds with the natural world that it defies any sort of reason. I'm a prima facia kind of dude the world around me kills to eat so I kill to eat. Pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain.

I feel it is our onerous task as first responders to wildlife conflict to educate those we can and neutralize the rest.

Lol, David, I too struggle and it is onerous indeed, but I still do my best to bring it to a positive ending. You can't with everyone, but those folks you know are so out of wack with logic that you can't, are better left to themselves.

One of the best parts of being non govt. these days is that I can and do choose my clients. You want me to do something I don't agree with and won't listen to reason, call the next guy and see if he is more open to your perspective, I'll pass.



A professor at Utah State in the Rangeland Resources Dept. had a great saying.

"If you are breathing, something else is taking a hit."

One of the simplest yet most profound statements and I've used it often in life since then.

Similar to the one mentioned at WCT a few years back.

"How would you like animals to die?"

Most people scratch their heads at these statements or respond, "I don't want them to die" but in reality
we and they are all dying, it is only a question of how and when.

***

Getting way off topic from Mike's thread not that it isn't the S.O.P. lol, but I honestly do enjoy debating folks
in a calm manner about how even growing veggies costs wildlife in terms of death and habitat while it benefits
others. The folks on the extreme end believing they don't kill anything or harm anything are not thinking even
on the most basic level about food and clothing and shelter and how these things are transported, created and
so forth.

Maybe I just like the challenge! I'd say it keeps me young, but the gray hairs starting to appear in my beard would
argue that point!

Justin, another good post! Forget about the animals. Here's my question for everyone: "How would you like to die?" Nothing immoral

please. ( Shucks, half of the guys dropped out already ) Anyway, I know my answer and I will post it after the answers peter out.

A clear thinking person cant blame an animal for accepting all that an urban environment has to offer. It does make a guy feel smart to see the lights come on while explaining to a customer why they have the issue that they do. In extreme cases I've seen coyotes crash through screens to eat the dog or cat inside the home. Animals dont feel the threat when they see people in the city any more. Some people feed them, while others run from them. Modifying habitat works during certain situations, but you cant stop the animals nature to defend its territory during certain times of the year.
Paul, this is kinda morbid but look who is asking rite? I've drowned twice, and I'll explain how it went for me. I was scuba diving for clams in zero visability back in 86-87 outside the back gate of Camp Lejeuine when I could hear my regulator telling me that I have 1-2 breaths left. I was only in 15 feet of water, so I figured a few kicks would have me at the surface. My clam bags were full and heavy, and snapped to shackles which were SEWN to my wetsuite. Due to the heavy current, I also wore about 30 pounds of lead on my belt to keep me from being blown away by the tide. So I could see the surface, but couldnt reach it. First I spent a little time trying to figure a logical way out of the pickle I was in, then I spent about 20 seconds panicking and thrashing around. Then a calm washed over me, and I accepted what was happening. Somehow I woke up on the beach.....with my clams!I dont think drowning is such a bad way to go.

Great answer Mike! I've heard pros and cons on drowning and although drowning sounds pretty good, I'd like a few more.

I've also been lit on fire before,run over, shot, and stabbed, but I liked those much less.

Okay, who let the alcoholic/druggie from Illinois on here? He makes my posts look absolutely brilliant!

Where are the moderators? Someone get the hook.....

A hook? Get a hammer!