You got to know when to hold them...know when to fold them...know when to walk away...know when to run.

Thanks Charles.

I don't see how a test can be held without supplying some sort of study guide. While it may seem that all CWCPs should know certain things, the reality is based on what species they work with and services they offer each will know different things about biology, behavior, species, equipment, and business practices. However, if a manual like the Nebraska Basic Operator Course is used (as it has a bit of everything in it), then everyone has a base to work off of.

Also, could you also see about how many hours the Nebraska course is worth? They have three option, so does each option have a different set of CEDs based on which option you choose or is it going to be just a single set of CEDs regardless if you take the course, do the books and test or just do the test.

Lastly, can you also see why WCT Magazine isn't on the approved periodical list.

Thanks again.

No problem Eric. I will respond via email directly to you.

Got my renewal for WCT will have Deb do that in the next few.

You go, Charles!
I do consider my CWCP distinction to be a selling plus: nobody else has one in my area. It's prominently featured in our marketing and mentioned whenever I need to close a sale.
I don't know why this is so hard for some to understand: industry certification by a national trade association is verification that you meet certain well-defined standards. Not being certified doesn't mean you don't know your stuff, just shows a lack of proof.

Exactly.

Charles, all the information that had to do with this re-testing was sent to me by NWCOA so don't give me this,"I don't know what

article had to do with CWCP" garbage. Maybe you better start reading what NWCOA sent before you start being their spokesman.

Mike, my informed source tells me that of course Vantassel is in charge of this whole deal. ( Which probably explains why Holt is a

little shaky on some of the answers.)

Mr. Conway, have a great vacation and enjoy yourself!

Charles, as you can plainly see, your members agree with this as much as I do; which is not at all. Now I have always given you

credit for coming on Trapperman ( which can be a hostile environment at times ) but you clearly were not able to answer even one

pertinent question, so instead of taking all the heat, why not let Vantassel answer the questions. After all, it's his test!

Paul - so don't join and don't pursue recertification. I'd rather Charles spend his limited time helping me and other members. I've picked up so much the last month on their FB page.

What I copied is direct from NWCOA CWCP revamped article in newsletter. NWCOA works through committee and as a board member I vote on what committee puts forth. As a board member I am part of some committees but not others.

Lets ask Eric as a past board member he should have exact answer on this CWCP misinformation from past. You always had to complete X numbers of training hours in X amount of years to keep CWCP status! That's not new. How many hours of training was it Eric? I am not sure on hours needed in past but its nothing NEW as some are suggesting, just streamlined and requiring training to come from approved sources. So now if you attend 1 hour of training you get one hour of credit if the presenter meets standards. As an example you got 20 hours or so for old wct event but only 9 credit hours for a entire semester of a applied trade or college level course...seems out of whack huh? That has been corrected. Any training can be put forth for credit hours along with presenters bio to committee but what they won't do is the leg work checking on your training. A known operator with a minimum of CWCP status presenting on topic with syllabus of said training would be more than likely accepted by committee. Some BS sent in and expecting a volunteer to do leg work to confirm would be rejected and sent back to applicant for conformation.

Your second, third and forth hand information from those who are anti NWCOA is...almost like that old "Mikey" commercial...don't let them send you on a mission Paul...they know how to push your NWCOA button... I have been contacted by members who have worked on CWCP test (after your post) and while Stephen may be involved and could act as proctor and I bet he had input on test... What is wrong with that? His status within academia lends value but I guess since he doesn't have 20+ years of fur trapping experience he doesn't count... The first annual NWCOA wildlife training college being held at University of Georgia in 2015 is a bad thing as well I guess.

And the fact remains Paul I don't have to answer any questions from non-members but I try and what does it get me but a snide reply from you. But I guarantee you I am more in the loop than your "sources" and I can assure you Stephen will never lend insight to this forum after how he was treated here but to be fair let your "sources" come forth and I would be happy to treat them with the same exact level of "professionalism" as Stephen was offered here.

Thanks Dave & Dave..

And for other members here or even non-members who have a thirst to advance in business send me a PM with your Face Book link that I can click on and I will friend you and when you accept I will add you to a couple nice sites one NWCOA and another that has value as well.

I dont know how many of you know or really care about our roots concerning the PANWCOA and this topic, but Phil Nichols a forum member and since retired to the good life, was president, myself, Rick Shadel, Jerry Pickle and some others I do not remember all names or they didnt stay the course so to speak. We were the first individuals to start the PANWCOA association in the summer of 2001 with official membership cards given out Dec.31,2002 and then we eventually joined with the now NWCOA in 2001.

So with all of this discussion some of us have had a long stake in this organization from the beginning so I have solid foundation in this topic Phil will most likely remember the dates more exactly if I am off a few months. But I have my original membership card to this day.I had my original card laminated and good that I did as it has taken a few baths in my lifetime due to several mishaps over the years.

I was member #001 in the Pa organization along with the other individuals who took the steps to organize and to get the ball rolling.So I think we are some of the old relics and forefathers in this organizational front.

Some of us may not qualify according to the lack of testing to qualify for the certification certificate based upon the current standards but we have walked the walk for 30 years in working Nuisance issues across the country and fur trapping earning our credibility for contributing practical comments in this area that we are discussing.

I also had a hand in establishing the initial testing standards for the current Pa. Pest Control permit.So I hope that those that dont think I or others qualify for making our comments or dont meet the current organzational certification standards will know the facts and why I have the opinions that I do regarding the current standards. Particularly concerning men or women that have long served their time and paid their dues within the industry.

CWCP is just a sales tool, no different than glitter on a stripper.

It's an attention grabber that buys credibility for those who have none.

It provides revenue to the business of NWCOA.

NWCOA knows that they can easily change the terms and in crease the fee of the "Certification" at will because the majority of CWCP will go right along with it rather than risk the shame of loosing their "Certification".

I have fixed countless jobs over the years that went off the rails which were first attempted by CWCP.

Another shining example of how people try to circumvent their lack of knowledge by attempting to buy credibility.

If you don't want or need the CWCP, don't get it. Like you state, it can buy credibility for those that don't have it. But, it is a little more, you have to prove competency. I never got the CWCP....but I have a Masters Degree...and my customers value that more. I am considering getting the CWCP to get other benefits like a zero deductible with liability insurance.

Bob - Thank you for having the forsight to set up the organization. Members all get one vote....use it wisely.

This topic is going to turn into several weeks of bavk and forth and I'd like to think that will result in a positive outcome but let's be honest folks it isn't going to.

Everyone on here young, old, inexperienced, experienced, certified, uncertified all have the opportunity to voice as you'd like your opinions, your facts, etc....

If you are new to this industry I'd honestly discourage you from reading this thread for one simple reason. You will end up wondering if this industry is full of animosity or good people.

In reality it has a ton of great people but has a tradition that I've watched play out of a constant ebb and flow of fighting over a variety of topics related to an association or training, certs and why or why not and what happened in the past versus what is.

For me personally this is more than I ever wanted to know and doesn't help me in my effort to run a business and feed my family.

If I see something that benefits me I take it paid or otherwise, if I can help better my profession I do that, if I think something's worthless I don't take it and I don't talk about it.

We all have choices everyday in our lives. Make yours for what you need and expect, that is all you can do. Or join and make changes as your role allows you to...

.02

I respect everyone's rigt to dissent and debate, just seems like we can't escape this deep rut..

I should add I have folks on both sides of this invisible fence that makes it even tougher to read or listen to.

Justin

I certainly didn't intend to keep any new guys from getting certified. Attending seminars and improving your knowledge of this

business is what it's all about. Anyone who thinks they know it all is dreaming. I just have a problem with retesting old guys.

It makes me think of the government, whose only reason for retesting is money.

Since I was asked to comment on the history of CWCP certification, here goes.

Charles is 100% correct in that the program was never structured to be a get it once and you're done program. Rather, the program was based off of the Certified Wildlife Biologist program which like many other professional acknowledgements (CPA, MD, DDS, etc.) requires a specific amount of continuing education credits over a specific amount of time in order to keep their certification.

Previously (at least through 2010), the renewal period was 5 years with 40 DCUs (Developmental Credit Units) in any subject. DCU's were awarded for any training that could be related to wildlife control (business, safety/health, animal biology/handling, capture techniques, etc.) where proof of attendance could be shown (certificate, letter of attendance, etc.) as well as receiving credit from proof of reading books or articles or listening to VHS/DVD/audio tapes. Credit was also given for college courses that can be related to wildlife control (business, marketing, biology, etc.) with 3 DCU's being awarded for each semester hour of credit (i.e., 3 semester hours = 9 DCUs), not the amount of time that was spent in class.

The biggest differences between then and now aside from cost (was $75 member/$100 nonmember and is currently $150 member/$350 nonmember) and changing from DCU's to CEU's is that the renewal credits increased from 40 to 75, training and are now qualified (meaning only training that meets certain criteria will be given credit versus all training), only certain college classes, books, DVD's and periodicals are approved and no test out option was previously available. As for presenter credits, I'm unsure if creating training courses or giving presentations is now approved (previously they were credited at 2x's the class so a presenter received 2 DCU's for a one hour presentation they developed and gave versus sitting the audience which was only worth 1 DCU).

Wink,

I appreciate you stating that. I think if you look at the responses there are many folks singing the idea of certs or training and so the topic has opened up beyond me what you were inquiring about why former CWCP have to "re certify."

Instead it's being treated as "why should I certify."

I don't make a plug nickel off of anything I say here I'm strictly of the belief that we should have training, we should have minimum standards and we should be looking for ways to market better and compete with govt and other competition.

Do I need certs or training or any of that to hang out a shingle? Nope, but I don't have to disparage the programs that others find useful.

We all know posts have a tendency to wander.

I'm simply saying your simple question has turned into some ugly statements that will make some new folks uncertain and that I know wasn't your goal.

I thought about this some more today. I am a charter member of NWCOA (since day one). I am also a regional director of the New York State Wildlife Management Association. I guess my problem lies not with the recertification but the fact that the test may ONLY taken at the seminar? This is a national organization and I find it hard to believe that an online version of the test cannot be created for those who cannot attend due to prior obligations. I just can't help but feel a bit betrayed by the exact organization I have supported since its inception.

There is so much misinformation in this thread, it is disheartening. Everyone has jumped to conclusions (wrongly), and then one incorrect statement leads to another, and then you get to here. NWCOA bashing at its finest.

I sit on the certification committee along with 4 others who review applications, review training, develop test questions and help with compliance. Keep in mind, this is a voluntary program that helps operators stay current on tradecraft and keeps them abreast of all aspects of the wildlife control industry. One goal of this program is that an individual can earn this certification, then he should be able to go to any state, any region, and not need additional training. Eventually, we hope that it will be universally recognized by state regulators so that if you go to another state, then you should be purchase a license and begin work and place out of any state training/testing requirements.

For those that want to know the facts, and a little history, here they are. For those who want to continue to rely on third party rumor and innuendo, please carry on with your nonsense and make up more lies about what you know nothing about.

NWCOAs Certification program was reviewed and updated a few years ago, primarily in response to NWCOA finally receiving a federal trademark/service marks for our name and for Certified Wildlife Control Professional, (tm) or CWCP (tm). This process to obtain federal marks was started in either 2005 or 2006, and was completed in 2011.

In revising and updating NWCOA certifications, a set of formal standards was created for instructors of training. As many on here have suggested, you can't very well have a greenhorn or inexperienced person training people, as the training would most likely be worthless. Because NWCOA did not have standards for instructors who did the training, most all regulatory entities did not recognize our training as accredited or our certifications as being based in sound science.

The Instructor standards are very straightforward and easy to understand. There are about 10 different ways to meet the instructor standards, and they are based upon a combination of field experience and formal education. In short, if you have lots of field experience and little formal education and are recognized by your peers as being an expert in a given field, then you would meet the standard as an instructor. Likewise, if you hold a PhD and have some field experience, then you also meet the standard. Conversely, if you have little formal education and little field experience, then you don't qualify as an instructor. NWCOA has always had standards for training and instructors accepted for certified training, but in the past, those standards were completely subjective to the opinion of the Certification committee not something written down in black and white. Now, everything is there to see exactly what is required and what is not: nothing subjective, it is a simple yes or no answer.

So, for those people have earned their CWCP in the past, and are up for renewal, what has changed? The original CWCP required 100 hours in CEUs, 3 years field experience in the last 6 years (part-time or full-time or 6000 working hours out of the last 12,000). One's certification lasted for five (5) years, and then you had to produce documentation that you had received at least 50 hours of continuing education to renew. So, anyone who is under the misconception that CWCP status was once and done, you earned for life is wrong. Original applicant had to submit documentation of work history and education requirements in triplicate to the committee for vetting and confirmation. Evidence of CEUs was required and it fell upon the reviewers to verify that all of the CEUs were in compliance. The reviewers had to subjectively look at what was turned in and judge if the application was acceptable. If the reviewer didnt know the training, the instructors, or other details, the burden fell on the reviewer to approve. In addition, hour for hour credit was given for attendance of a training event (i.e. one hour seminar at WCT or state event = 1 CEU) At the same time, a college level course in a related field of study was awarded a fraction of credits (3 hour college class, 3 hrs/week for 16 weeks = 48 hours of instruction received only 9 CEUs. Finally, Renewing CWCP had to show that they received ongoing continuing education within the last 5 years of their certification to qualify for renewal credits. In other words, you could not go back in time and use education received previously, before you first acquired certifcation.

OK, so what changed in 2011?

1. All CEUs were simplified to one hour of instruction = one ceu, regardless of where it came from.
2. All training accepted for CEUs must meet NWCOA instructor standards. In short, if the instructor does not meet the standard, then the student does not get credit.
3. Total hours required for both new applicants and renewals were increased to reflect the change in how CEUs were calculated. New applicants are required to show 200 hrs and take a test whereas the old requirements were 100 hours. Renewals require either 75 hours of continuing ed OR take a test in lieu of the CEUs. There is no "re-testing" required for CWCP renewals. 85% score is required to pass.
4. Private entities who offer training and want their customers to receive NWCOA CEUs can have their curriculum vetted for standards compliance. If the curriculum meets the standards, then anyone taking that training will automatically receive CEUs. Yes, there is a fee, and NWCOA uses that money o pay the reviewers.
5. Applicants and renewals are required to provide proof of attendance for the training (hour by hour), and provide documentation on the instructor if curriculum not pre-approved by NWCOA.
6. Fees increased to provide modest compensation for reviewers versus 100% volunteer efforts to cover costs of administration of the program.

What didn't change?
1. 5 Year certification period. Required to renew every 5 years.
2. Applicant has to submit documentation to committee of training for compliance review.
3. Any industry related training is eligible for consideration by the committee.
4. CWCP certification is open to members and nonmembers, alike.


So, in summary, get certified or don't. This is the NWCOA process and it is based upon other trade certifications like plumbers, chimney sweeps, electricians, pest control operators, septic system installers, and just about any other service or contracting trade out there. For old hands like Bob J, Don L, and others, you may not see any benefit in participating. At the same time, nobody gets a free pass, a wave of a magic wand, or gets certified because your cronies all agree that you should have it. Initially, EVERYONE has to prove it through documentation and testing to earn it the first time. After that, you have the option of attending training and accumulating CEUs for renewal OR just re-take the test to prove competency. In some states, our standards for training have been recognized and credit given for CEUs for license renewal for contractors, vertebrate pest, general pest, and nuisance wildlife permits.

Some operators see value in continuing education, and in obtaining certifications. Others don't. Some operators who are not CWCPs nor NWCOA members see value in falsely displaying our certifications and membership decals. Those must believe its worth something, because they lie about having it.

In some cases, it can save you quite a bit of money by placing out of state level regulatory requirements, or real cash. NWCOA members who participate in our insurance program, and are CWCP, are not required to pay a deductible for a claim. Current deductible is $500. One or two claims within a five year period far outweigh the cost of certification. But again, to each his own. This is voluntary program and no one is forcing any operator to participate. Just take the time to learn what the program is before believing rants on an internet forum.

Thanks
Dixon Herman
NWCOA Certification Committee member


-----------------------------------

To address some specific statements and/or comments:

Eric Arnold: Test is free and included in the price of your renewal application. No study guide provided for the test. Sounds like something NWCOA could sell for those interested, but not something I see a need for. CWCP is a national designation, and the test covers a wide range of general knowledge wildilfe control. Questions come from other NWCOA training (ie Basic Operator Certification, Goose Control Cert, Shooting in Sensitive Environments, Bat Standards, and general wildlife biology and disease from all regions of the US. In short, it is designed to show that the applicant has a general working knowledge of commonly controlled wildlife, common techniques, and related tradecraft.

In regard to renewals, the policy we had stated that 50 credits were required for renewal, not 40.

WCT is not on the list of approved periodicals because only peer reviewed, scientific journals are preapproved. Content from WCT may be eligible for CEU acceptance provided that the authors meet NWCOA instructor standards. Anyone wanting to submit material from WCT would need to provide documention on the author to the committee for vetting. If you, as editor, want to get content preapproved for NWCOA CEUs, then you can submit content for review the same way as you would if wanted your training classes vetted. You could also help your readers acheive CEus by including bios and related documentation of all regular contributors either in the magazine or on your website.


Art Lee: If you think that our CWCP certification is something that can be bought, well, you are wrong. In the past, there may have been an opportunity for some cronyism, and for those not deserving to get certified, but that surely is not the case now. In fact, your concerns regarding the integrity of the program led to the re vamp. I challenge you to apply, and see if you can EARN your certification -- you surely will not just "buy" it.


Craig Conway: Go ahead send your money for renewal, just make sure you comply. You were always required to provide contnuing education requirements, so just a check doesnt get it done. (See above: you cant buy it...) You will either need to provide your CEUs or take the test to receive renewals.


And finally, several had questions regarding the testing:

1. You are not required to come to the EXPO to take the test. It is being offered as a service to attendees who will be there anyway, and want to take it.

2. For anyone who wants to the take the test, you just need to contact the NWCOA corporate office and request a test. At that point, NWCOA will find someone near you to proctor the test or make other arrangements.

3. Long term plans were as Holt indicated, that this test will be offered online through the NWCOA website.

4. The test was a collabrative effort of the members of the Certification Committee with contributions from other operators and academia. All past and present certification committee members are CWCPs.

Never mind...:) But one thing...this is FIRST testing period and to assume that it will ONLY be given at EXPO in future is short sighted and a little paranoid. All NWCOA training has been given or is designed to go to other locations besides EXPO. Testing with a vetted proctor at other meetings, events seems simple in comparison.

Please re-read option 1 and option 2 to renew.