Talk about misinformation! Continuing your certification is a whole lot different than becoming re-certified.

Thats the point, Wink. There is no difference. You can call it whatever you want, but to renew, extend, continue, etc. (semantics), a CWCP was ALWAYS required to pay money, and provide proof of continuing ed units (CEUs).

Now you can either keep up with all of the paperwork, or go take a test. It is real simple, so simple even a cheesehead can understand it.

[quote=nwcotrapper]


"I sit on the certification committee along with 4 others who review applications, review training, develop test questions and help with compliance. Keep in mind, this is a voluntary program that helps operators stay current on tradecraft and keeps them abreast of all aspects of the wildlife control industry. One goal of this program is that an individual can earn this certification, then he should be able to go to any state, any region, and not need additional training. Eventually, we hope that it will be universally recognized by state regulators so that if you go to another state, then you should be purchase a license and begin work and place out of any state training/testing requirements."

You are blowing smoke on this one. Professional trade licenses are almost universally non transferable, think lawyers, electricians, nurses. In all cases you must pass the state's test and be granted a license in the said state to be able to legally ply your trade there. A "certification" from a private trade association has no value there. If you doubt this ask a lawyer.

I get it that NWCOA is a business and there is a profit needed. However doing on the back of the members by promising them something that is nothing more than a pipe dream is the wrong way to do it.

I personally don't need the CWCP to validate myself as a professional.
Past clients that refer me to others and my monthly statements do that well enough thank you.

Talk about blowing smoke! Do you people at NWCOA actually think that I enjoy raising heck with you? You, Dixon, personally gave

us the best advice on an insulation removing machine ever. We will be continually grateful! I have always respected Charles Holt

and his lovely bride and I have said so on many occasions. This is not now, nor has ever been, a personal vendetta. I received an

E-mail that made some of my NWCOA friends very uneasy. I'm too freaken old to worry about "Appearances" so I made a post that you

didn't like, which was exactly what it was meant to do. Since then I haven't changed my position once, but you have. No new

re-certification ( Post Deleted ) and prove that you are competent to receive continuing certification. Once again, this is not for

anything personnel, but for friends that belong to NWCOA. Sorry if this was taken personally, ( I would have felt the same way )

but Charles, and under extreme conditions, you, are the only people that have guts enough to even type on T-Man. Who is the

President, anyway?

Paul-

Check your pm box. PM box is full. Clean it out and I will send you something.


As far as "changing my position" -- I really dont understand what you are talking about. You completely lost me.

I didnt delete a post???

The certification policy is what it is and has been that way since 2011. As far as I know, anyone who wants to read it, it can be found on nwcoa.com. My best advice to anyone interested in obtaining NWCOA certifications would be to read it all in its entirety. Next, read the instructor standards policy, in its entirety. Finally, read the Marks policy, all of it. Those documents should answer anyone's questions regarding all things NWCOA related to Certifications, training, standards, etc.

Art-
Sorry to burst your bubble in regard to our certifications and opting out of permitting requirements. I am not aware of any state that requires a NWCO business license to operate. However, several states have waived permitting requirements, continuing ed requirements, and allowed waivers for certain kinds of wildlife control work IF the operator was a CWCP and up to date on his continuing ed. We just hope that more states recognize that NWCOA CWCP exceeds their state requirements, and therefore acceptable for their permitting requirements. It would definitely save a lot of hassle when applying for or renewing state permits.

hdh

I think having a club for new guys to belong to is OK. As long as nobody is trying to cram it down every ones throat. Maybe it was just mis information, but isn't that what almost happened in Michigan a couple of years ago?

Mike-
Misinformation. In Michigan, it was proposed by Michigan DNR to require a training/qualification program for permit holders. Currently, the permits are free, and you have to ask for one to get one. No experience/intelligence/know-how etc required.

Instead of creating one from scratch, MDNR proposed buying the NWCTP from the University of Nebraska, customize it for Michigan law and use that. Trappers from the UP opposed any kind of training to get a nuisance permit, got a sympathetic legislator, and got the whole thing killed. in short, Univ Nebraska's involvement was that they tried to sell their training program materials to the State of Michigan.

NWCOA didnt have anything to do with it. NWCOA has approved the NWCTP as certified training, and UNeb - Lincoln has licensed our trademark for their advertising. As such, we support the NWCTP and its training program. If someone completes the NWCTP, they can apply to NWCOA to receive "Basic Wildlife Control Operator Certification." That is the extent of NWCOA involvement in the issue.

If the majority believes that the WCO industry in Michigan is better off with no training then so be it. Just dont be surprised when some moron, who learned how to do wildlife control by watching the Turtleman, gets in business in Michigan and screws up royally. Like setting 220s on the ground in somebody's backyard to catch a nuisance coon/skunk/possum and ends killing someone's pet. Or exposing a customer to a zoonotic disease because they are ignorant and dont know any better.

Yep, that will be good for everyone that has a wildlife control business - even if you are'nt in Michigan...

hdh

Well I'm at a loss. The CWCP policy on the NWCOA website is not the same one that was there right before the WCT seminar, rather it is the one older 16 page version from March 15, 2011.

Thanks for answering the my questions Dixon, but the original policy from 2001 until it was changed in 2011 was for 40 DCU's for renewals. As for instructor qualifications, can that be put on the website for review? The newer policy had some of it in there but the one from 2011 doesn't really reference it.

PS: Ohio requires a Commercial Nuisance Wild Animal business license and a Commercial Nuisance Wild Animal Operator certification since July 2013.

We needed it in MI badly....

Thanks for you response earlier Eric.

Mike - If you think these new guys are looking for a "club" you are mistaken. These "young" guns are sharp and are collecting certifications and training like you would not believe. And the reason why is the diverse backgrounds they come from and "young" is just in reference to industry. They don't see this as an extension of trapping they have military backgrounds, corporate backgrounds, backgrounds in sales, construction trades, marketing and many more. They look at this as an industry with virtually untapped potential, they don't have the "guilt" associated with charging a living wage for a service in demand from the general public, as we have all heard repeated over and over within this industry about charging to just "catch critters". Some see that as a bad thing...evolve or get left behind has always been a rule in almost all industries but for one simple reason some think this industry should be different but still they embrace new trap designs and tools...

The "forefathers" of this industry left the cork out of the bottle when they closed the first entry point. And while certain portions of this industry require outdoor knowledge such as beaver control, predator control and some others just how much "outdoor knowledge" is needed to identify urbanized wildlife structural entry? And to offer a solution? The industry has progressed, maybe beyond what some would like, and NWCOA has followed and as the industries trade association has no choice but to continue to push what the first board members started. If it was supposed to be a club and not a trade association the mission statement and bylaws should of reflected that but they did not. So where NWCOA is and will be is a direct result of those founding members...Thanks one and all.

I am new to the industry and know nothing of the history that might play into a thread like this but it forces me to think.

My thoughts, if welcome, are this: If NWCOA wants to be a national trade association with clout they need to lower their bar for certification. Right now if I count correctly on my little screen there are roughly 475 members and around 59 CWCPs in the whole country.

My guess is most of the members joined for the reason I did, which was access to Christian-Baker. And then there are some that see the benefit of being able to market as a cwcp and made the effort to satisfy the requirements.

With a certification that requires so much training and hours I wouldn't be eligible to get it for another year or two. There are hundreds like me. By the time 3 years is up I will have figured out I can run a successful business without a cwcp designation.

Nobody is going to go through the work of getting a cwcp to someday not have to pass a state sponsored test. The state tests are easier. I passed two. I didn't have to sit in class for 200 hours or wait 3 years.

Create a test a step above the hardest state level test that everyone can take and you will get more participation. It will still be the highest distinction a NWCO can get in the country. You can still sell it to the states.

The re-certification policy that everyone is arguing about could also be dialed down. These guys already took more classes than all but 59 other people in the country. More ceu's are irrelevant. Some people realize this. That is why it looks like a revenue play.

I didn't write this to pick a side or cause trouble. Honestly believe this would help the organization reach its goals of state and federal respect and accreditation.Hope I didn't step on toes.

Bob,

I see where you are going with this and I'll state my tone here is just simple like we are talking plain at a diner about this sort of thing.

To me lowering a bar means a certificate or training doesn't mean as much. I've been at classes where showing up is all you had to do
to get a paper and leave and I didn't feel it had the same value as one where I spent time, worked hard and ultimately gained a skill or
showed my competency.

I guess for me this started back in grade school or high school with hunter safety, and so forth. Eventually I became an instructor and
again needed to prove I was competent based on time and experience.

I understand what you are saying that more folks might join, but you can be part of NWCOA as I am and not be a CWCP as I am not (hope
that makes sense).

I haven't taken any of the trainings yet even as I've had a hard time getting away from my personal and business life, but this year I'm heading
to Expo and I do plan to take part in trainings that matter to me for my business and what I do.

I've always like the idea of the CWCP, I come from a wildlife biologist background and working for the govt. as one but I grew up on a farm
hunting, trapping, fishing and dealing with problem wildlife there from the time I can remember.

Part of growing an association is proving value and it can be tough to prove value, everyone wants something for their money and I understand
that, but with the stack of renewals I have on my desk for various associations: wildlife disease, southwest naturalist, wildlife society, BCI, etc... I'm
getting ready to send funds to quite a few that I belong to without a dollar for dollar return because I'm interested and I want to develop and collaborate
across the lines with many others.

Folks that do pest control as has been stated on this thread all have to do CEU's I know they are what you make of them, you can just take the ones
that get you by, I've seen guys asleep in local pest control CEU courses and they still get credit, but to those like you, me and others who care, we can
use those CEU events or others to network, and to learn and better ourselves and our industry.

I'll close saying I hope this was as your post was, not meant to be pushy or anything, just to say, to me if we don't work long enough to earn something
or prove we deserve it, we are just saying any guy/gal who hangs a shingle is instantly certified and without any difference to an individual who has
been doing this for 10, 20 or more years as many have.

I also know many are in the boat of "I don't need anyone to tell me what I know after all these years" and to those I can't say they are wrong, just that this
isn't important to them and thats okay, just as it is for any of us to not partake.

We must in the end all decide and let others decide for themselves if they want to be part of something larger, or if that is better left to others.

Best,

Justin

Holt, I'm not saying the info or the club is bad, but I'm not saying it's any better than the info available at no charge. That's where it came from anyway.

everyone is entitled to their opinions. After being an ACTIVE member of NWCOA my business grows 10% yearly. and higher hopes of next season

Dixon and Charles thank you for your clarification and input.

Dixon, what I am talking about is that the E-mail I received had Tony De talking about basically throwing out the old certification

and everyone having to be tested again. What it ended up being is what it always was; Prove that you are getting more approved

education to maintain your certification. Had that been stated in the E-mail, I would have kept my mouth shut and none of this would

have transpired. Sorry about the full box. Never realized I was that popular. Should be room now; send away.

Paul,

I am a little confused.

The topic of your (this) thread is the title of the article written by Tony "Why do we need another certification" concerning the shooting in sensitive environments course and other items about certifications that I posted on first page of this thread verbatim.

So was this an email from Tony saying "old certifications" are being throw out or an email from another saying that was what was being done?

Either way would you please share that email here so I can answer your concerns in a pertinent way. I have re-read his article a number of times and can't seem to find even the innuendo of "throwing anything out"...I have just read it again and then had my daughter read it (as an unbiased observer) to see if she can see what perhaps I am missing. And her take was that new certifications (shooting in sensitive environments) were being added but nothing being thrown out.

I am not aware of any old certified training that NWCOA had but as a founding member you were around before me so what certifications are you concerned about being thrown out? I just want to make sure this is not an issue of someone giving you wrong or altered information. Perhaps as Dixon suggested it is an issue of semantics? But please share the email in question so we can get to bottom of this issue.

Charles, don't think I didn't want to, after all the different takes on what I was trying to say. I checked everything, including my

trash for that E-mail. That's the trouble with being on vacation. You come back and you wonder what happened? I hope someone else got

the same E-mail from NWCOA that I did. It was mostly Tony De talking about why we needed new certs. I read it a couple of times

and received another E-mail from a concerned friend, so I hope it isn't a semantics issue. ( My wife says I'm losing it and I would

hate for you guys to be the proof ) I'll keep attempting to dig it up.

Let us know if you do. I looked back through my emails from Tony and could not find it either - Don't feel bad Deb thinks I am loosing it as well that's what wives do - One of his comments regarding certifications in his article (yea, I have read it at least a dozen times now) may be the issue. I copied it from first page of this thread and will post it here. But it is concerning The Wildlife Society not any past NWCOA stuff...

"The Wildlife Society uses general academic and work histories to classify members as either Associate or Certified Wildlife Biologists. As valuable as those designations are, they have do not signify ability in work-specific skills."

Just making a distinction, not in anyway trying to lessen value for what they are, is the way I read that.

Take care Paul you need to talk or anything at all just give me a jingle.

I can see both sides but I had to laugh... just my experience with "professional groups", regulatory, and agency folks... too funny to pass up.

So I support being qualified, but I am very skeptical. Check out this link... (and be patient, I have a point to make)

http://agri.nv.gov/Protection/Resource_Protection/The_Trapline_Newsletter/

So,we can get certified/re-certified and we prove to the world we know what we are doing. We can follow all the regulatory requirements better than our federal counterpart USDA APHIS Wildlfe Services, and pay taxes to boot. But who decides that we can follow the regs better than anyone??? Hmmm, this seems like a conundrum... Ask the feds???

You can see from the articles in the link that they are vague. Officially, this is intentional so that "domestic Terrorists" don't find the rancher or the locations of traps and cause terrorism... Why then won't the "Domestic Terrorist" groups like green peace terrorize us? We'll likely have our contact information on our certification and if it is to mean anything it will have to meat state regulatory requirements and probably be posted somewhere.... Oh and because we are in the private sector, we should also probably be voluntarily audited every year to make sure we can show we followed our certification requirements. Oh and we should increase our insurance too, it will show we care more.

Perhaps we should rather write a vague, inflated newsletter of ourselves and send it to politically influential people and politicians...

I certify myself every morning.

No offense intended.