I'm sure several of you have had this happen. How do you solve?

Do the beaver work for the county, trapping on two properties, one on each side of the road. Now the one property owner has me doing raccoons for him, and he told the other guy. Who loves the raccoons and has several he hand feeds.

Today the guy who feeds them told me that the other guy never had a problem with the raccoons before so has no idea why he is having me trap them

To calm things down, I told him I would bring each coon to him as he said he can recognize the ones he hand feeds. Any ideas I have gained both guys trust and even a friendship has developed and both have given me permission to fur trap this fall.

That was a mistake.

One guy is paying you to get rid of the raccoons and you bring them to his neighbor to feed!?

If I have a neighbor who is worried about the poor animals I'm trapping, I have to judge the situation. Some need to be told the truth and some need to be told that I'm bringing them out to a farm in the country where they can live out their lives in peace, harmony and abundance.

I prefer the first method but have come to realize there's a time for the second too.

What are you going to do if he "recognizes" one? Release? Can't be everyone's friend. I would take care of my customer. I would probably find other fur trapping ground as well.

Mistake based on what. He's happy and knows the others are leaving with me. As far as charging the other guy. That's easy, he doesn't know every animal I catch. I just don't charge for that one if I catch it.

Ok also, first off. I don't want to sound like a smart A. BUT I want to know WHAT people have done in this situation not what WOULD YOU DO if it happen to you. Sorry not trying to be rude, just written words don't allow for that comment without sounding rude

Thx

And keep in mind it's not just be everyone's friend it's also helping these neighbors not have a big conflict.

I'm just guessing that these neighbors are close as in living in a neighborhood and not country neighbors where they at most can see each others houses. If he's feeding raccoons, it is a good chance that those are the raccoons that are causing the problem. They are seeing houses and people as food sources and are being drawn into contact with the other neighbor because to them contact with people has become a positive. Just a guess on my part.

When this happens to me I fulfill my obligation written in my contract with my customer within the context of the law.

Well, it's happened to me and I responded as you wished.

What you are experiencing is not unusual, it's fairly common. One person feeds the animals and the other person finds them a nuisance and that person is your customer. You are under no obligation to inject yourself in neighborhood squabbles. You're there to do the job you're getting paid to do.

Your obligation lies with your customer.

I personally think you handled it just fine. Everybody is happy. The only thing I would do is bring coons from other areas to the guy

who feeds. That way he'll never recognize one of his raccoons and if he does, he's lying. The guy who feeds may miss them for a while

but raccoons seem to be able to smell crazy people for miles. Next year he'll be feeding twice as many. You'll have a job forever.

I had something similar with squirrels. I have to do right by the customer, and do what biologically makes sense.

What kind of problem are the raccoons causing? Will the problem be perpetuated by releasing them?

When I was in the situation I figured ever squirrel caught on the property became the property owners decision,as it is on his. I cant transport it across to be his neighbors descision.

To go where? Dumping them next door doesn't solve any problems, creates more, and IMO borders on fraud.

Ok there is some psychological issues taking place here to I believe. The short version

This is in the country but both houses are no more than fifty feet from the road and directly across from each other. From discussions with both guys, never any problems between them in past

Older gentlemans wife passed away three weeks ago, just before I started ADC work for county at this location (for beavers). When I first started the old guy said I could set traps right in ponds were his swans were he said " I don't care if they get caught I can replace them". I didn't trap ponds though. Two days later he says he changed his mind about swans. Then he asked if I could set a trap for a particular hole he thought a muskrat was using. He has several cats. And we went through the same "I don't care if you catch one of the cats" No don't catch a cat 2 days later

So three days ago he asks about catchin raccoons I say sure and after I caught two, he goes over to neighbors and says. " your raccoon is gone now".

So the next day the neighbor tells me about two raccoons that have been coming to him when he's out I yard in the evenings for a couple of years

So today the neighbor comes over to talk to me about "his raccoon". And the discussion goes for a while about how the older fella never had a problem with the raccoons being around. Even would bring his grand kids over to the other guys to feed the raccoons. I'm now just thinking the older fella is just not coping well with the loss of his wife. I am way more concerned with these two getting along than I am about making a few dollars.

Anyway this is what I have decided to do.

I am only trapping two more days, the neighbor does not care about any of the other raccoons, just his friendly one. I am going to show him any of the additional ones I catch and if I get it I will release it back on his property I told him about the other three already and he said not the ones he feeds based on description the ones he likes should be. Easy to I'D I will not charge the old fella for t if I catch it. I have a suspicion that by Saturday the old feller is going to change his mind

I've learned as a contractor sometimes you are the counselor, negotiator and/or advisor too

Maybe this all makes more sense to you guys now that I have given further details

Thx for your advise
Sorry if I offended anyone

Like I said before, you handled it just fine. Those neighbors have got to put up with each other long after you are gone. I like your

remark about their friendship being more important than your money. I'm sure your right about the man not adapting well to being a

widower. Sounds like you handled this ever changing situation better than most of us. Keep up the good work.

More than once I've told a jackwipe, "you ain't paying me, go away". Sometimes I use different words for those last two.

Interesting. First off, I'm curious how your state wildlife laws read concerning what is considered a "problem" raccoon (or other animal). In Illinois, they must be living in a structure, causing physical damage to property, or present a safety/health issue.

That eliminates most cases of someone other than the customer being "concerned" about the issue. We can't trap most wildlife simply for population reduction or because "someone saw one walk down the alley" or through their yard. Not a good enough reason.

If raccoons are living in a hollow tree.... our regional wildlife biologist simply responds with "That's where they belong.... raccoons live in trees. Leave them there."

However, if they meet the criteria for removal, he has no problem at all with trapping and euthanizing. It's been illegal to relocate raccoons in Illinois since 1999. That also makes it easier to decide what to do with them!

Wondering what the landowner is considering a "problem" with them.

Ron. Michigan law says concerning raccoons that they must be doing damage or about to do damage. It's the about to do damage phrase that opens up a huge grey area.

I just had a similar issue a couple of weeks ago. One neighbor is having problems with raccoon while the other is feeding them. The one paying me is the one having the issue, so aside from letting my customer know about the problem and being polite to the other neighbor (and being more alert with potential issues with releases and/or damaged missing equipment) all I did was focus on the job.

In your case, it almost sounds like if the neighbors would talk about what the problem is both parties could come to a resolution. I've had this happen several times over my career and it almost always comes down to people not understanding cause and effect, so I always suggest to the client that they talk with their neighbor about the problem.

Since you have trapping permission, how do you plan to handle the situation when you catch raccoon he has been feeding or one's that you've released when season rolls around?

Seems that raccoon fur is basically worthless for sale due to market I will not be targeting them anyway, but I would just not target raccoons on these properties. Mainly want to water trap and coyote trap these properties anyway.

As far as release of raccoons here. Only ones that would be released would be the ones he says are the friendly ones. I have removed and disposed of three raccoons here and trapping stops tomorrow

As far as the other question about trapping these in michigan. They are in the curtilage of property actually traps are set against the foundation wall of house, the raccoons have been dDigging into his potted plants next to house.

I know I could catch these raccoons still in fall when fur trapping but it is unlikely as the only land trapping will be for coyotes and that will take place away from yards so minimal chance of catching fluffy coon

Plus that bridge is 6 mos away. They could be road kill by then

I

Other than relative size, I wonder how he will know "his" raccoons. A wild raccoon in a cage probably isn't going to act as friendly as one being fed outside of the cage.

Doesn't really matter though, you are doing what you think is best and that's about all anyone can ask.

I don't know that this particular scenario could happen here. First off, we can remove no animals out of season without depredation permits. In order to issue such a permit I must be able to show damage or threat to human health.

If I were working a beaver job and someone ask me about removing coons, my first question would have to be, "Are they causing any damage?" If so, then I can issue the permit and take the animals. Someone feeding them on the other side of the road has no say so in the matter.

There again, I'm not sure that the feeding neighbor isn't breaking a law in feeding wildlife to start with. Fact is, if neighbor "A" is feeding the raccoons and those coons are damaging property belonging to neighbor "B", neighbor "A" could find himself liable for the damages and the removal cost.

All in all, I would do the job for the one paying me and not worry about what the neighbor thinks. Let them fight that out amongst themselves. I'm not one who looks fondly on the feeding of wild animals to begin with.

From a literal reading of our regs there is no choice in the matter if a coon or other RVS ends up in my trap it must be euthanized.

I wish some of your state DNR agencies could explain how killing everything does anything other than keeping some softies from

becoming your customers. Does anyone really believe that killing several hundred raccoons is going to effect the overall population

one iota? I've listened to all the right slanted views by the "kill everything extremists" and left slanted views by the "don't kill

anything" extremists. One is just as ridiculous as the other. I am really glad that we can decide what to do with nearly all the

target animals and birds that we catch. We probably release more birds and animals than the majority of you, and I'm not ashamed to

say that. Of course, we also probably euthanize more birds and animals than most of you and that doesn't bother me either. If you're

licensed to do ADC work you should be intelligent enough to not have your DNR tell you what you HAVE to do with your catch.

That's us. Anything in the order carnivora must be euthanized.

Just as well. The animals I go after are already a problem or I wouldn't be after them. I don't think anyone is served by simply relocating a problem.

With that said, there are still many critters I catch and release. All the non venomous snakes I catch and possums come back to my house and are set free. Turtles and flying squirrels take a long ride and are turned loose where someone else wants them. If I catch domestics with no collar, they wind up at the animal shelter.

Anything edible, such as beaver, nutria, gray squirrel, muskrat, and such as that, I'll not lie to you, it goes in my freezer eventually winding up on my supper table.

Gray squirrel, coyote, coons and such, we have an abundance of them. What I take out will never be missed.

Even though I grew up on squirrel and dearly love squirrel dumplings I haven't eaten tree rat in years. They go in attics and I know what people put in attics.

FWIW, As explained to me:

Missouri doesn't forbid translocating, but it's "Highly discouraged" because,

A. It's screws up biodiversity by unnaturally mixing DNA around.
B. Can introduce a disease into populations with no immunity.
C. Can spread Rabies etc, for which there's no immunity.
D. Removing a problem animal from one area to dump it in another so it becomes a problem for someone else.
E. Could just come back, educated.

I euthanize 99% of what hits my truck for those reasons. Another good reason: the survivor rates of relocated animals, especially in winter.Studies vary but none of them are great.

Let's just take a single species, the red fox. Life became a lot harder when the coyote moved in. I've caught a bunch in raccoon

traps. Most people love foxes in their area, because they do for free what I charge for. Now I can legally release him or if infested

with mange or obviously sick, I can euthanize him. I can also take it to a rehabber; the chioce is mine. Relocating adult foxes is

not a great idea normally, but again, the choice is mine. This is just one example of an animal that I am glad I can release. Killing

a healthy red fox because you caught him by accident is just plain ignorant. And if I read some of these posts correctly, that is

exactly what some of you must legally do.

I should clarify my statements just a bit.

Non target animals are released on the property. It's the "Problem" animals that I'm called to remove that get euthanized. Even if I were to take an animal from inside the dwelling, I do have the choice of releasing it on the property so long as the property owner agrees. I usually try to discourage this by informing the client that there are no guarantees that it won't find another way in.

Say, I catch a coon in the attic. If the property owner doesn't want it euthanized then I can release it out in the yard. Which is cool, cause they'll call me back to come get him out of the attic again next week. But, let's say I'm trapping for a coyote that's eating baby goats. If I find a fox in one of my traps, I release it unharmed.

Generally speaking, they want the problem animal gone. Then is when my guarantee comes into play. The only guarantee I try to make is, if I haul the critter off, it will not be back.

Speaking of relocation, are any of you following the "Ed Crankshaft / Black Squirrel" episodes in the comics. I would swear that one

of you is writing that scenario. In today's episode Ed relocated the squirrel but it beat him home. Sound familiar?

I'm amazed by what seems to be the "law" in each state, what the heck are animals different in each state, biologist different.

Here's what michigan law says about wildlife captured as nuisance animals. In a nut shell:

Beavers ca not be relocated unless by special permit/permission by state

Raccoons can only be relocated in county they are captured in

Released animals must be released at least 10 miles from capture site

The property owner and the agent capturing animal should agree upon the fate of the animal

Contracts/agreements of wildlife removal do not have to be in writing

Wildlife must be released or euthanized within 24 hours

There is also a list of which animals the agent can capture and remove based on their judgement of situation

Other animals you need a biologist to issue a permit for

If trapping is allowed during fur season on property (out in the country) you can only trap animals that are in the curtilage (house, yard and out buildings)

Beaver are excluded in above rule in the southern half of the lower peninsula

Coyotes are to if the are doing or are about to do damage (this is anytime a coyote is breathing)

This is a short version of the latest regulations per the paperwork I have

But I have talked to several guys in michigan that treat some of the suggestions as law, not that they are breaking law they just choose for instance that ALL trapped animals must be destroyed. This is what some tell customers is law but it isn't.

There is also on one companies web site a statement that the LIVE TRAP BEAVER AND MUSKRAT UNDER WATER and relocate. That's a crock

Anyway that's what I know of regulations as of 3 months ago

Paul,

You need to stop giving away upcoming articles, lol.

When dealing with this issue remember that it is about managing a population in a state, it is not about managing the population in a single county/neighborhood nor is it about managing a single animal.

For management purposes, you need to look at multiple factors such as disease risk to like species, other species, pets, & humans. You also need to look at both biological and sociological carrying capacities, habitat requirements and availability, food sources, species behavior, cost and other factors.

Imagine that you have been hired to be the wildlife manager for a 10,000 acre property. Ask yourself how you would ensure that the clients goals are met. Now expand that situation into a 65,500 sq mile area (basically the size of Wisconsin). How would you approach a disease outbreak to control it? Would you make a general policy dictating that those vector species be euthanized, would you still allow relocation and the potential spread of the disease, would you instigate a preventative program, or would you do all of this as well as other things? Now ask how you will maintain biodiversity on this property. How will you control over population of certain species that are forcing others out, creating disease/human issue risks, or are creating economic/environmental issues.(Look at the problems Snow Geese have created for themselves).

Each property will have it's own unique goals and will then need to be managed independently of other properties. I'm not saying that everyone's got this right or wrong, just that you need to look at the big picture and not just a corner of the image.