Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5559636
06/22/16 05:19 PM
06/22/16 05:19 PM
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019
MN
|
Man oh man the term "quality of experience" makes my blood boil worse than just about anything.
When I hit that I stopped reading because I could digest what I already read.
If trappers, trappers associations, hunters and hunting groups allow that to continue we'll get what we deserve
Once I settle down I'll digest the rest and comment.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5559919
06/22/16 09:08 PM
06/22/16 09:08 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933 WI
WIMarshRAT
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933
WI
|
Numbers never lie, but liars use numbers?
Maybe the reason I enjoyed Paul Harvey...now you know the rest of the story.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5559985
06/22/16 10:27 PM
06/22/16 10:27 PM
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019
MN
|
The saying is figures lie and liars figure.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560092
06/23/16 05:53 AM
06/23/16 05:53 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933 WI
WIMarshRAT
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933
WI
|
So 49er, should trend data be used to increase/decrease or should it only be used to maintain stable population?
Back to our marten area...300 sq miles could theoretically have 3 to 15 packs of wolves if we use dnr numbers. Improve the prey species by habitat improvements and you have a higher population. Only trap outside of that zone and what happens? The very area that could benefit from a lower wolf population is forced to maintain a higher wolf population. A stakeholder that should support our heritage is going to be fighting against us.
So the feds get brought in and they remove those animals. Simple math tells me if we can harvest 30% and we have three wolves in pack, that is 30 to 150 less permits each year. Last year that we had a harvest, we had 1500 permits available.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560174
06/23/16 08:15 AM
06/23/16 08:15 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,299 Wisconsin
The Beav
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,299
Wisconsin
|
The marten Issue Is a big can of worms and I believe It needs to be canned. We have been screwing around with marten reintroduction forever and It's not working. No habitat and no prey species and you can't fix that. The only benefit to this marten thing Is that someone Is getting a pay check.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560184
06/23/16 08:35 AM
06/23/16 08:35 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933 WI
WIMarshRAT
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933
WI
|
Sure Diggerman, I like wolves. I like all furbearers—their presence generates trappers. More of them means more trappers. Last I checked, we were still on a downward trend in the number of trappers. We can’t create enough to replace the ones that we are losing each decade. Doesn’t mean that I am shortsighted and only focus on one animal and think we should only focus on artificially increasing their population. I, too, agree that we have too many wolves in the state. What I don’t like is us putting some arbitrary number like 350 out there. I prefer some sort of balance and we have no idea if 350 will even get us close to being in balance at the current distribution of wolves. Deer hunters can be some of the most shortsighted people around. Take Waupaca county. It just about went doe only because the deer guys continue to tell the other stakeholders they have to live with the decision that they want to see more deer. There was even a resolution that tried to allow deer damage permits to be issued based on deer browse on forested areas. Know why there are blocks that hold huge amounts of deer in Waupaca county? The property owners actively manage the habitat. The rest sit and complain that they don’t see any deer in their huge wide open hardwoods and plowed ag fields that can barely can support a squirrel. Wolves have shown up and some even blame the wolves because they believe all this hysteria being feed by others. Which group do you want to be in? This same mindset was the mindset that told us beaver and fish couldn’t coexist. We must make all our trout streams beaver free. Where did that get us? See trappers should fight for balance. Instead we get caught up in this 350 number because that is what the deer guys tell us to think. We need to be able to think for ourselves. We took all the beaver preferred habitat and made it beaver free while not doing anything to increase the beaver habitat where they were allowed/desired. You are asking me to repeat this same mistake on wolves. I prefer the guys that get active and focus on habitat. Maybe it is my appreciation for the DU model. HABITAT, HABITAT, HABITAT. …So now it appears I break from my habitat kick to show you how to keep an area of 300 sq miles lower in wolf densities by building stakeholders, and you feel I am deflecting away from wolves and am against more wolves being harvested? I bet RMEF would ensure every block was surveyed if they have not already done so for wolves. I am betting these two private organizations could get an increase in the wolves harvested there to lower the density without any government program to guide them. This should give us a baseline of an area to see how things are responding to a lower density of wolves and more prey species driven by habitat improvements. More importantly, I am negating a negative stakeholder into a positive one that is focused on HABITAT together. This is how you win long term. Looks like I found one of my resolution for this next year
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560246
06/23/16 10:33 AM
06/23/16 10:33 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,299 Wisconsin
The Beav
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,299
Wisconsin
|
I think It's about not having a constant or preferred food source like the red backed vole or something like that. And that's something we can't fix. There just tying up a large chunk of ground with no hope of ever having a sustainable marten population.
They have had research people on the government teat for about 20 years trying to make this work. And the WTA even donates some shekels to that program.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: Fox Claw]
#5560304
06/23/16 11:44 AM
06/23/16 11:44 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933 WI
WIMarshRAT
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933
WI
|
Recently there have been reports that Marten have been repopulating some islands in the Apostles without any human help at all. Pretty cool discovery. Pretty cool Fox Claw. Just in case anyone was interested in a little more detail about that discovery, figured I would include an article below. http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/outdoor...apostle-islandsBrian, your answer might be hidden in this discovery.
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560352
06/23/16 12:34 PM
06/23/16 12:34 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,255 backwoods N. Wi.
Fox Claw
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,255
backwoods N. Wi.
|
USDA Wildlife Services (AKA "APHIS") officials in Wisconsin have formed a business partnership with an "anti" group here. The Pro-wolf group "wolves of Douglas County" has been selling a non-lethal wolf deterrent called a "foxlight" to APHIS at 85 bucks a piece. I'm not exactly sure what "foxlight" is, but from the description it sounds like some kind of automatic flashlight. How's that for outrageous and a waste of your tax monies? Read more here: http://www.wpr.org/usda-experiments-new-tool-deter-wolves
|
|
|
Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560363
06/23/16 12:42 PM
06/23/16 12:42 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,496 Wisconsin
RdFx
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,496
Wisconsin
|
Aphis tried flashing lights yrs back already up in Ashland county and it DIDNT WORK. Im surprised that David bought into this unless his supervisor told him to buy them...
RdFx
|
|
|
|
|