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Re: Spike buck [Re: 52Carl] #6043825
11/03/17 10:23 AM
11/03/17 10:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,472
ohio
S
skippyturtle Offline
trapper
skippyturtle  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,472
ohio
Originally Posted By: 52Carl
Originally Posted By: coonfinder
https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner

This is a pretty good article relating directly to what your asking.

No offense to you coonfinder, or anyone else for that matter, but I looked at those chronological photos of Reartree's spike and I question their scoring ability for each photo. But then they are in the business of selling every hunting gadget imaginable and are prone to exaggeration almost as much as a Michigan fisherman.
Another issue is that all knowledgeable herd managers would have culled that deer after its third year since it lacked the genetics to produce at least 10 points by that age. The remaining photos of ages 4,5,6,7, and 8 confirmed this.
OK so it ended up being a deer every single one of us would like to shoot, but over its 7 breeding years it polluted the herd's gene pool with its inferior genetics.
Are all spikes doomed to be inferior once fully mature? Of course not. Are most of them doomed as such? Very likely.
The best parallel has been brought up about knowledgeable cattlemen not choosing runts to become their breed bulls.


You can not kill the genetics in a wild herd by shooting only the bucks that show bad genetics. That buck got half his genes from his mom. Likly his dad did not show the same genetics so now you have to kill both parents and their parents and siblings and well you just cant kill them all esp when you do not know which deer have the gene.


NTA
OSTA
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043829
11/03/17 10:43 AM
11/03/17 10:43 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 639
Southern Illinois
I
ilbucksndux Offline
trapper
ilbucksndux  Offline
trapper
I

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 639
Southern Illinois
It depends on where you are hunting and what you're looking for. If you are on heavily hunted public land he is probably not going to make it past gun season so If you're hungry shoot him. If you are on remote hard to get too public land with light hunting pressure let him walk,same with private land.


Gary Bartlow
Re: Spike buck [Re: bucksnbears] #6043851
11/03/17 11:21 AM
11/03/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,593
Minnesota
330-Trapper Online content

trapper
330-Trapper  Online Content

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,593
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: bucksnbears
Because THEY Can!
Haha! Truth!


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043897
11/03/17 12:02 PM
11/03/17 12:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 56
South Central PA
P
PAtrappernut Offline
trapper
PAtrappernut  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 56
South Central PA
In its infinite game management wisdom (dripping with sarcasm), the PGC has taken away the opportunity to harvest spikes and 4-pointers here in PA. Up until the time of this change, we had no concerns with lackluster overall deer populations, we kill tons of them on the roadways each year with vehicles. Rather, it seems to many that the PGC has taken a bad turn, focusing on the antlers and not the harvest of natures abundance for the meat. Many hunters and the PGC report that more mature antlered deer are now seen in the woods than in decades previously, citing the great work they've done limiting the harvest of smaller antlered deer. I view this as offering nothing but tremendous support to ant-hunters who claim we only hunt for the antlers and not really for the meat. This whole focus on antler size is, in my opinion, going to be used against us some day soon, even in what are hunter-friendly states. We really need to get off this kick and get focused on harvesting the excess, the abundance in our herd.

For me, I could give a rats tail about the antlers, I hunt solely for the meat. I purchase numerous doe tags and hunt most seasons in an effort to put a years supply of red meat in the freezer for my family. there is nothing more nutritious than organic venison taken directly from the wild, in my opinion. Sure, if I get a nice rack, I'll get a plaque mount done, but every harvest of a whitetail is both a trophy to me, as well as me fulfilling my internal drive to provide for my family.

Yep, it's a no-brainer that a spike one year will likely have greater antlers the next year, but please tell me how to cook those bony growths as I have yet to find a way to make them palatable.

My 2 cents....worth less today than a week ago.



Last edited by PAtrappernut; 11/03/17 12:05 PM.

The good lord has blessed me with the ability to trap. I trap to honor him and those who lived the explorer/trader/trapper life that I cannot.
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043911
11/03/17 12:18 PM
11/03/17 12:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,460
havelock, NC
Rye Offline
trapper
Rye  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,460
havelock, NC
PATrap,

As I said, it's not always about the meat. For some, it's about the experience of hunting one specific deer. For others, like me, it's both. When I had two growing boys, I needed 5 NC deer a year to feed them. Now that its just me and a roommate, 2 Fills the freezer. I have six tags, so I spend the rest of the season looking for Just one deer.


"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living; the world owes you nothing; it was here first. "
--Mark Twain.

Re: Spike buck [Re: PAtrappernut] #6043939
11/03/17 01:11 PM
11/03/17 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,472
ohio
S
skippyturtle Offline
trapper
skippyturtle  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,472
ohio
Originally Posted By: PAtrappernut
In its infinite game management wisdom (dripping with sarcasm), the PGC has taken away the opportunity to harvest spikes and 4-pointers here in PA. Up until the time of this change, we had no concerns with lackluster overall deer populations, we kill tons of them on the roadways each year with vehicles. Rather, it seems to many that the PGC has taken a bad turn, focusing on the antlers and not the harvest of natures abundance for the meat. Many hunters and the PGC report that more mature antlered deer are now seen in the woods than in decades previously, citing the great work they've done limiting the harvest of smaller antlered deer. I view this as offering nothing but tremendous support to ant-hunters who claim we only hunt for the antlers and not really for the meat. This whole focus on antler size is, in my opinion, going to be used against us some day soon, even in what are hunter-friendly states. We really need to get off this kick and get focused on harvesting the excess, the abundance in our herd.

For me, I could give a rats tail about the antlers, I hunt solely for the meat. I purchase numerous doe tags and hunt most seasons in an effort to put a years supply of red meat in the freezer for my family. there is nothing more nutritious than organic venison taken directly from the wild, in my opinion. Sure, if I get a nice rack, I'll get a plaque mount done, but every harvest of a whitetail is both a trophy to me, as well as me fulfilling my internal drive to provide for my family.

Yep, it's a no-brainer that a spike one year will likely have greater antlers the next year, but please tell me how to cook those bony growths as I have yet to find a way to make them palatable.

My 2 cents....worth less today than a week ago.




If it is about the meat what is the problem with bigger bucks? They yield more meat and satisfy the antler hunters too. The does are still the same and easier to kill because their are more of them. Seems like a win/win for meat hunters and antler hunters.


NTA
OSTA
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043949
11/03/17 01:19 PM
11/03/17 01:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,275
wantage n.j.
E
eric space Offline
trapper
eric space  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,275
wantage n.j.
PAtrappernut has a valid point. To non-hunters it does look like the deer are killed only for their antler size. We may not have a problem with that but the perception of the non hunting (and not necessarily anti hunting) public is that they are killed for the trophy.

Re: Spike buck [Re: Trapper Dahlgren] #6043952
11/03/17 01:23 PM
11/03/17 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,156
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline OP
trapper
AJE  Offline OP
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,156
WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Trapper Dahlgren
you want to see bigger horns put mineral lick in spring they really work for me see a lot more bucks an larger ones
Glad to see this thread has drawn so much interest.

Unfortunately we aren't allowed to put bait out until deer season starts, which of course the racks are done growing by then.

Yes guys, this 1 would be a great eater. If I see it the last day, I may be looking to put meat in the freezer, we'll see.

Last edited by AJE; 11/03/17 01:25 PM.
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044020
11/03/17 02:40 PM
11/03/17 02:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,571
MT
S
snowy Offline
trapper
snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,571
MT
Just my 2 cents worth. That spike could be a monster if given the chance to live 5 years. It may never be more then a good 4 point at 7 years of age. Not sure how anyone could judge if that buck will be a quality buck at that young age is beyond me. It has to live to see what he turns out to be.


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044023
11/03/17 02:45 PM
11/03/17 02:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,568
Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper
RiversNorth13  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,568
Gitche Gumee Wisconsin

Some hunters like meat hunting .
Some hunters like hunting bigger bucks.
Some like both .
It's a good thing we all get to hunt .
Not everyone likes the same color of truck , it's all good .




Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

.
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044031
11/03/17 02:57 PM
11/03/17 02:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 913
North Carolina
DaYooper14 Offline
trapper
DaYooper14  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 913
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: AJE
What is the outlook for spike bucks? If passed up, do they amount to much of a rack in future year(s). Any thoughts on how big/how quickly they're rack will grow from year to year. I've seen enough little guys on camera, like this 1, and am wondering.


Little off-track from OP but back to it - yes - if passed up the spike can amount to a great rack in the future. Impossible to tell how big or how quick. All that said - if you got a lot of spikes running around - what's one less smile


-- It seems all of Greece knows what is the right thing to do, but it is only the Spartans that do anything about it. --
Re: Spike buck [Re: Anglinscreek] #6044090
11/03/17 04:37 PM
11/03/17 04:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,732
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,732
pa
Originally Posted By: Anglinscreek
Eating a tender spike that provides 40 pounds of venison, instead of an adult doe that provides 50 pounds of venison, is silly.

Saying you cant eat the horns, but refusing to shoot does is silly.

Saying you just love to hunt, but end your season at 7:30 a.m. on the first deer you see is silly.




I didn't say i'd do any of the things you say are "silly".

I will tell you this buckwheat, I'm not after a "rack", i'm after a "deer". Like trapping, i don't do it for my health, and i'm one happy camper if i shoot a spike ar 7:30 and can go do other things instead of sit in the woods watching trees grow while waiting for a rack i can't do squat with.

Sport is what is killing our outdoor activities.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044107
11/03/17 05:08 PM
11/03/17 05:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,789
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,789
Virginia
[Quote from skippyturtle] "You can not kill the genetics in a wild herd by shooting only the bucks that show bad genetics. That buck got half his genes from his mom. Likly his dad did not show the same genetics so now you have to kill both parents and their parents and siblings and well you just cant kill them all esp when you do not know which deer have the gene." [quote]

Here is the part that you are leaving out. Generally speaking, it is accepted that mature bucks breed many does, resulting in passing its genes to many fawns/year.
If a particular mature buck is a 24 inch spike, he will pollute several does, resulting in many fawns receiving his lousy genes.
That doe out there carrying bad genes who spawned the 24 inch buck is only responsible for genetics of the fawns which she gives birth to in her lifetime. That is much less significant, statistically speaking than how many fawns/season a buck is responsible for.

The bottom line is, while you cannot eliminate all bad genetics in the wild, taking out 3+ year old bucks exhibiting lousy racks will prevent a significant number of fawns from receiving and passing on those lousy genes in the future.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044114
11/03/17 05:14 PM
11/03/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,571
MT
S
snowy Offline
trapper
snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,571
MT
hippie >>> nothing wrong with shooting what ever pleases a persons desire too. I will have to agree that trophy hunting has ruined the sport of hunting. Trophy hunting makes the worst come out in a so called hunter.


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044141
11/03/17 05:38 PM
11/03/17 05:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,568
Gitche Gumee Wisconsin
RiversNorth13 Offline
trapper
RiversNorth13  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,568
Gitche Gumee Wisconsin

Bad genes are only in the eye of someone that disires genes to produce a different outcome.
No way are people going to take out the gene pool they think is bad to get the one they disire in the wild .

How is anyone going to know which "does" ,to take out, with said "bad genes" ?
Maybe the ones with short ears !


I can't wait till we get all them bad genes gone and only have the Cornish Cross chicken gene left in them , 200# yearling bucks ! laugh

Might get bad legs before hunting season though . confused




Simplify your methods to the point of perfection.

Become fast,efficient & effective.

The real "SECRET" to successful trapping.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

.
Re: Spike buck [Re: PAtrappernut] #6044172
11/03/17 06:23 PM
11/03/17 06:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 299
Upper Michigan
M
Mack Offline
trapper
Mack  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 299
Upper Michigan
Originally Posted By: PAtrappernut
In its infinite game management wisdom (dripping with sarcasm), the PGC has taken away the opportunity to harvest spikes and 4-pointers here in PA. Up until the time of this change, we had no concerns with lackluster overall deer populations, we kill tons of them on the roadways each year with vehicles. Rather, it seems to many that the PGC has taken a bad turn, focusing on the antlers and not the harvest of natures abundance for the meat. Many hunters and the PGC report that more mature antlered deer are now seen in the woods than in decades previously, citing the great work they've done limiting the harvest of smaller antlered deer. I view this as offering nothing but tremendous support to ant-hunters who claim we only hunt for the antlers and not really for the meat. This whole focus on antler size is, in my opinion, going to be used against us some day soon, even in what are hunter-friendly states. We really need to get off this kick and get focused on harvesting the excess, the abundance in our herd.

For me, I could give a rats tail about the antlers, I hunt solely for the meat. I purchase numerous doe tags and hunt most seasons in an effort to put a years supply of red meat in the freezer for my family. there is nothing more nutritious than organic venison taken directly from the wild, in my opinion. Sure, if I get a nice rack, I'll get a plaque mount done, but every harvest of a whitetail is both a trophy to me, as well as me fulfilling my internal drive to provide for my family.

Yep, it's a no-brainer that a spike one year will likely have greater antlers the next year, but please tell me how to cook those bony growths as I have yet to find a way to make them palatable.

My 2 cents....worth less today than a week ago.


I was thinking about posting something on this thread but you pretty much summed up my thoughts better than I could have.

Re: Spike buck [Re: eric space] #6044174
11/03/17 06:28 PM
11/03/17 06:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 871
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 871
Northern WI
Originally Posted By: eric space
PAtrappernut has a valid point. To non-hunters it does look like the deer are killed only for their antler size. We may not have a problem with that but the perception of the non hunting (and not necessarily anti hunting) public is that they are killed for the trophy.


I have thought about this for years, trophy hunting does not look good to non-hunters. I think a person should be able to hunt any legal deer they wish and I don't agree with States that limit by antler size. Sadly it's the big bucks that fought it out through the rut and somehow lived thru all the hunting seasons that are most vulnerable to a hard winter.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044254
11/03/17 08:11 PM
11/03/17 08:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,718
MB
J
Jurassic Park Offline
trapper
Jurassic Park  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,718
MB
I hope all the guys that are against hunting for antlers don’t wait for fur to be prime before they start trapping. That would be pretty moronic.
And you know what other saying I really hate? ‘I haven’t found a way yet to make antlers taste good, no matter how long you boil them for’.
Makes me want to spit my coffee out every time!


Cold as ice!
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044276
11/03/17 08:29 PM
11/03/17 08:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,915
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,915
perry co.Pa
As long as this has been going on that spike has grown into a rack buck lol
This issue will be debated as long as there are deer and deer hunters
So shoot what you prefer and enjoy natures bounty big or small its still your choice

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6044287
11/03/17 08:39 PM
11/03/17 08:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,608
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
trapper
Bruce T  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,608
Northern Maine
They taste great


Nevada bound
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