Okay I want everyones opinion. I KNOW this sounds crazy, BUT tell me if I'm wrong.

This thread "could" go downhill fast so PLEASE try NOT to ruin it.

Heres the question??

When a man and women are doing things that only "married adults" should do together. Well for T-Man sake we just call them the "afterwards bodily fluids" anyone ever realize how canines ARE EXTREMELY ATTRACKED to those fluids????

They freak out and go crazy trying to get at them.

Serious, if you could add the stuff to lure somehow it would be almost as good as "dynamite". I'm not a lure maker nor have any desire to toy with it.

Any of you lure guys got any ideas?? Anyone else notice this besides me??

It would be Pheramons, like a passion ingredient. Could name it "the big O"

ummmm...yours or the canines????

You have a valid point there Andy. and what in the world make you think of that?

andy you must have a weird dog!!!! lmao.


get a cat!!!!!

in all seriousness, i had a little chihahau (sp) that seemed to enjoy certain spots on the bed.....so hmmmmmm! lol

actually, i would think normal glands from female canines would already include the pheremones you speak of, so if glands are taken from in-heat canines then they are already added to the lures.

your a funny man andy!!

Interesting topic Andy, but I would wonder where you would get a steady supply???

I think j lord is right, it's already in passion lures. But you are right, Andy. In grizzly country women are advised not to go camping at that time of the month.

yep ole hawkeye. we we're in yellowstone at the wrong time of the month one year, and we couldn't go horse back riding...

now it gets scheduled around vacation, lmao.

dude... that is a theory i had... we went 4 wheelin 3 guys and one dudes wife. in the morning the bear ate her seat off the 4 wheeler overnight...
I knew that was why....
sno squaws on my wheelers..

Ours are always pests then too. You would need something, (a fixative?) to keep the scent around for days. I'm thinking that if pheromones could be dispersed at a steady rate the perfume industry would have bottled it long ago.

is that why my dog likes my socks???

hupe, lmao.....

I prefer to and use the in heat matrix glands from fox, coyote, bobcat and mink in My Nature's Call lure formulas. Think I'll pass on the addition of human substances. Don't know for sure but I would be willing to make a reasonable wager that if extensive testing were done on canines with human substances that just as many canines would avoid the human odors as those that went for them. Good topic though Andy!!! Ace

In deer season when the big boys are in rut and your wife or girlfriend is having cramps and in a bad mood you should ask for her in heat scent. (I'm not real sure I'd ask my mother:0) Take it and tie it up near your tree stand and see what happens! Most people think it's a joke and don't want their buddys to see them do it. If they don't get a deer they think that they will be made fun of. But if you stay at it you will find great rewards. I don't sell or make a better lure than that! Best big Buck lure there is except a doe in heat during the full rut. Now don't sit there and laugh if you haven't tried it.

old timers in NY used to dot hat before you could buy tinks69.
not for me though....

LMAO

Don't know why you couldn't take a yote prostate and grind it up or something.

I seriously know of a contracted coyote damage control trapper out west that uses his wifes used sanitary napkins when he has a difficult yote that hasnt responded to other types of attractants. He claims it works most of the time.

Why not make a dirthole when there is snow on the ground and place some of this "substance" in it and see by the tracks how the canines respond. I agree that a fixative would be in order but also know that pheromones deteriorate rapidly regardless. You could also just go on a romantic camping trip and put traps at intervals all around your tent. Might just catch a peeping Tom. This post brings up so many humorous possibilities I am going nuts trying to keep it civil.

high noon and dave are right. using tampons or pads really doues attrect the big buck. Its all in the estrigen. women and female animals produce estrigen during their cycle. The males smell it and know its breeding time. you have an excellent point Andy but using this stuff would propbably work only problem it has to be in the breeding season and you may attrect unwanted targets.

its pretty much proven that in heat pheromones will not last in lures,of if they did the animal would have to visit in a couple hours time as they are gone fairly quickly even in the natural state, or as russ carman stated a buck would be a month behind the doe, instead of 20 minutes,one synthetic was tested a great deal on canines in the 70s 80s era by government research, supposed to be avauilable to the public from the usda upon request, is called synthetic monkey phereomone,thats probly what you are looking for and its been used and abused a fair amount already by various luremakers.

waiting.......

The female products would work fresh, but the pheromones are too volatile to bottle and store, they only last a few hours, still doesnt explain why some of those matrix lures are effective (from hersay, never have used them) but a lot of bowhunters think doe-in-heat scents are the biggest crock going, due to this reason. Personally, from a deers perspective, i have seen deer seem attractted to it, and others scared of it, but then again it could jsut be the curiousty factor

Another theory is the blood contains an elevated level of estrogens, and that is the attractant, but thats just some thoughts, no proof of anything

As for the "after products", the mucous contains a fair amount of estrogen and natural pheromones, and that might be why the are so attracted to it

Well I know a guy that used his wifes used sanitary womens hygine products to lure in whitetail bucks, he killed a lot of big bucks.

I wonder if I tell my wife this therory if she'd be willing to help me out at a few set locations, remote ones LOL

I use and have used blood by products for many years to enhance glandular products that we will just say have been man altered in a way that in essence mirrors the heat cycle very closely.

What happens when your dog, fox, coyote,cat comes into heat???Most all are aware of this condition I am sure.

Bodily fluids/excretions of many kinds will cause animal interests and peak their curosity.

some good serious points, when andy called me about this post i thought....oh no, this post wont last 2 minutes, lol.

thanks guys for the replies and all the other folks for keeping it clean, well as can be anyway, lol.

i know a guy that used "used" tampons during deer season and he swears by them, lol but its true

Andy, don't be gettin any ideas of putting a woman on each trap site............
but ur point is well put........does make you wander

I have heard that too.

One of my friends uses some commercial product that apparently makes them do the cartoon stop skid when they walk into the scent trail.

Can't remember what it was.

I hear if you pee all over your set, yotes go crazy....

WELL said...also the zoo is NOT OPTIMUM for places to be at that "time"... the monkeys go CRAZY and throw poop and such...(been there..SEEN THAT)
lynx

ABSOLUTELY... have a local guy that's use those..and pads and the animals go WILD... it's NOT unusual..just nature.
lynx

Andy if ya want i'll send ya a few bottles of this "dynamit lure"

It works well on whitetails!! I use a little differet technique, that im only comfortable saying in a PM, so if anyone wants to kno, pm me and i'll tell ya what i do, shot bucks using it and have had NUMEROUS pass ups come into it!! I learned it from another guy at work, and now me, my buddy, my dad, and my dads buddy all use the same thing, works like a charm!

Ok guys I'm gonna step in it here. I quit making trapping lures back in the 80's to study deer. After 20 some years I've come to some conclusions about using deer urine and other attractants. I don't always aggree with government tests. I have done all my research on deer in the wild. I could tell ya all kinds of storys about the big time deer scent companys. Some have tried to buy from us and others have bought. When you sell to these big time companys you have to sign papers saying that you won't give any information about them etc. So don't ask!
If you have alot of money you can sell anything. You just buy as many ads as you can. TV, magizines, etc. Buy a few people, put them on your so called "PRO STAFF" and so on. These companys have to buy from many suppliers to meet demands. Some get another company to bottle and put it in pretty packaging. Do you think that there is alot of quality control going on? Do these big companys know what they are buying? Then do we mix this barrel of urine with that barrel of urine? These are things you should think about. Oh ya forgot about the new craze of serial numbers. Think I'll get outa bed when Mr. Buckie decides to mount Mrs. In Heat at 2 oclock in the morning. I could go on forever!
Back to the subject of deer urine and in heat scent. I do sell alot of in heat scent. Does it work better than regular deer urine? Thats really what your looking for right? And why do I sell in heat scent if it doesn't work?
OK HERE GOES! I don't know. Glad I got that outa the way!
Here's what I do know. I have shot as many big bucks with regular doe and young buck urine during the rut as I have using In Heat Scent. And also during testing I have not seen any more attraction to in heat than to regular doe urine. I have however seen better attraction to young buck and dominate buck urine. The only time Doe in heat outshined was the first day or two. Some big companys start packaging in May or June! How about your store bought urine vs. fresh urine. It's hands down with fresh urine. Where do you get fresh urine? From me of course:) Why do I sell Doe-in-Heat? (Because some guys watch to much TV and swear by it:0) REALLY some guys swear by it and that's what works for them. You have the tools you need right in front of you do your research and find those who sell fresh urine. But you still need to know who sells watered down urine and a host of other things.
I know some deer farmers that collect urine for 3 weeks when they think that the does are in heat then mix up three weeks worth and call it in-heat. Nothing gained if you don't put in the time. That's what's so great about this site that Paul runs. Do you have great bait makers and others that share what works for them? Am I a better lure and baitmaker than Bob J., Asa L., Paul D., or others? I think not! Do I have some lures and baits that work? Yes I do. Does one persons lure work better than anothers? Do we have a favorite lure, and does that tend to make us buy more of that persons products?
You have some great moderators on this website and you can find alot of answers on here, use it. What I write on here is just my opinion. I think that you have some of the very best lure and baitmakers around that answer the best they can without giving up their livelyhoods. I do have this one last thought, and that is this. These guys (Bob, Asa, Paul) sell an honest product and might not make the best of proffit on some of them, but they try to give you a product that works. And just like me, they keep trying to improve products. If they didn't we wouldn't learn much from them would we? It costs lots of time and money to come up with new and better products. The cost of everything is going up so don't complane if these guys have to raise prices in the very near future. They don't make as much proffit as you may think! If they help you, help them in return.
I have started making lures and bait for trapping again because I have grown tired of all the testing for deer that I've done over the last 20 or so years. And I was a Trapper before I was a Deer hunter. I'm not so young anymore and do alot of thinking about climbing those treestands as I hunt alone. I can still kneel down and set a mean trap though, so that's where my interest lies now until I can't get up off the ground. Hopefully my wife will just grind me up and sell me for Yote bait when that day comes. I will make the best yote bait anyone has ever or will ever come up with. So bid high as I'm sure my wife will sell me on E-Bay! I hope she puts a good reserve price on me:0)

Gonna be a run on gynie tools now Andy.


I know what you mean about dogs going nutso.

Ours goes insane.

I can see it now.... "Charles, go wait in the truck. I'm gonna lure this set. Gimme a few minutes.... You can get the next one..."

Back in the Michigan bounty era with a bounty paid on wolves, coyote, bobcat and fox there were a lot of trappers as a good trapper could make a fair living or make a difference in thier family's living standard. There were many I remember who bolstered ideas about using the wife's sanitary napkins, peeing on sets, etc. I can only say that these guys NEVER come anywhere near to harvesting numbers that were brought in by guys like my Dad and some of the better State trappers and State trapper instructors. Those who followed the age-old method of throughness and attention to detail along with common sense lure, bait and urine formulation and usage were always the top producers year after year. Bounty payments were public record so one could always check and see if the sanitary napkin/set peeing type trappers were doing all that they bolstered. None ever did to my knowledge and recollection and the coyotes harvested by them were most always pups in the Summer just leaving the den. To bounty an animal, one had to take the whole body into the DNR and make out a form for each animal. Information on the form included sex, age, whether trapped or hunted, section/range and township of harvest, etc. Anyone could go to the DNR office and thumb through the records on anyone bountying animals. The times when I did run a check on some bragging trappers all I seen were pups, pups, and more pups in limited numbers compared to the thorough trappers. Deer are a different story, I have no doubt that human scent can and does attract many, it was always known that a woman had to be careful in rutting season or in a pasture containing a bull. Ace

Well said Asa, my thoughts were from what I learned studing deer. One last thing I might add is this. I don't use the napkins anymore as I have found other ways that work just as well. Gun hunters don't have as much use for urines and masking scents as bow hunters do. And the very biggest mistake bow hunters make is not being able to mask themselves properly. Deer are very curious and will check out most any smell they happen upon. But I asure you that hunting Trophy Whitetails is in fact very different than hunting deer. And so are the ways of hunting them. Trapping other critters is another thing all together.
Stan

WOW. Lots of great info here. Nice posts High Noon and Asa

I've always heard about womens stuff doing wierd things to animals but women aren't "in season" when they are menstrating so why the attraction or is it the smell of blood and will any blood will get the same reaction?

I tryed that. All I had was a bunch of dogs follow me around all day.
Cant help you on the pheromone output. All my wife and I put out now is dust.

You have to soak it in DOE URINE OVER NIGHT!

beleave it or not, a couple of guys told me they hange there wifes personly thing in the back of there cages and catch cats. don't sound good. and yes andy i always shot my coyote at the spot. let them bleed in one spot. if useing a dirt hole make it a little bigger and scoop up the blood, shove it down.. works great.. John

i used to live in a camp gound were they had a a big 7ptr, I would bring my dog down at night an have him chase the ducks an geese, he used to also chase the deeralong the fence then one night the deer snapped.

He ran like always then got about 20yds from the fence tuned blew pawd the ground an charged the fence. He did serouse damage to the fence an the horns went on both sides of my dogs head, i grabbed him an ran as the deer kept hittin the fence


a weeks later the woman that always feeds him, was that time of month an the deer gord her put her in the hospital for a few weeks,

I was told that but never beleaved it till then. steve

I cant believe I am going to even touch this, but how do you know it is all female?

And I read an article a few months back in one of the magazines that touched on this.

SVR, you lived in a camp ground........?

Looking back I see that Andy S. started this post. I should have known. Anyway I think that I said earlier that after all the years of study of Whitetail habits that I don't know why they have such an attraction to (lets just say women). I have tried other products from different animals and have not seen the same results. It is the same as DOE-IN-HEAT. I don't know why so many people believe that, that product works so well when in fact you can't bottle phermones. If Tinks 69 or Code Blue or something else works for you then use it. Watch TV and read Magizines and you get blasted with wonder products and pictures of gigantic bucks.
If you want to know what I know about deer habits spend over 300 days a year learning about them in the wild. I've done it for many many years. I'm not on television so I may not seem to be as credible as the so called PROS. But here is a lesson to keep in mind.
If you hunt deer for meat and the fun of doing it and hope Mr. Big shows up that is one type of hunting. It is the type that most people do. Hunting Trophy Whitetails 3 1/2 years and up lets say, is another type of hunting. If you don't live in an area that doesn't have monster bucks then you may never have a chance to harvest a huge Whitetail.
Mature bucks get stupid durring the rut. It's the best chance for most hunters to harvest a huge Whitetail. Luck plays a role in alot of big deer getting shot. And most are done buy gun hunters.
I sell deer urine as most of you know. I think my website has a few notes on hunting deer. Check it out when you find time. But for now let me try to tell you about deer urine and my observations.
First of all I do sell Doe-in-Heat. Why because some people say they have better luck with it than regular urine. I too have some pictures of people with big deer on my website. I have as many people shoot big deer with regular doe urine as I have seen with people using Doe-in-heat. Why is this? Because most young deer just gotta go smell stuff. Trophy deer on the other hand are a little bit wiser most of the time. I'm sure most of you have had momma doe doe blow for some unknown reason to you. You might have gotten yourself winded but that might not be the real reason.
Fresh urine wins hands down to store bought urine, I don't care how much preserv. you put in it. Here goes, if you have read this far then you want to learn something. If you are out there hunting for Bucks then use buck urine. Why? In short, because a buck will not check out doe urine as much as he will check out another buck. He wants to know what strange buck is in his area. And during the Rut using Dominate Buck will make the big guy in the area go crazy. Another thing here though is that using Dom. buck urine will sometimes spook younger bucks off. There is a whole lot more I could tell you about deer hunting and hunting for trophy whitetails. This is a trapping forum and as such I'll try not to go into this subject anymore (sorry Paul). I have a love of just getting close to whitetails and sharing what I have learned about them. I don't know all and never will, just like making lures and baits, it's the love of it, cause the time and money put into it just don't quite add up execept for the pure joy of it and sharing with others is what my wife and I do because the rewards are watching people have fun getting their first deer or a big deer, catching their first critter or more of them.
Stan

I'm enjoying your postings about deer Stan (High Noon)and I have no idea who you are. Although I've taken my share of whitetails both large and small I'm not one of the great deer hunters of the times. There is one thing that has always made me wonder about doe in heat urines. I sold doe in heat for about 10 years back in the late seventies and early eighties that I purchased from what I considered a very reliable source from which I purchased other animal species urines both regular and in heat. Although it is said by so-called experts that phermerones can't be bottled, it is hard for me to believe that doe in heat does not still contain something that whitetail bucks recognize as a doe in heat. I have a whole pile of astonishing testimonials that I collected over those ten years but my own personal experiences are what really counts in my opinion. Three bucks I took during that period were standing and pointing at the lure like a pointer dog, one so intent that he come withing a few feet of me, stood there pointing at the lure 85 yards ahead and didn't even see or smell me sitting up against a tree. Two other times I had two bucks coming into the scent within minutes apart, always intent on investigating the doe in heat scent and seeming to throw all caution to the wind. Although I haven't used any in years now I'm still sold 100% on doe in heat urine being extremely effective. The only reason I quit selling it was because Fred Trost of Michigan's Fred Trost outdoor TV show claiming everyone selling it was a fraud. I have spent my whole life testing, making and selling animal lures and after a few inuendos I didn't want the doe in heat issue reflecting on the integrity of my other lures or my character. My heart was in trapping lures anyway, as I said I don't consider myself a great or extremely knowledgeable deer hunter so I let the sales of deer scent go. Fred Trost if your not familiar with him was sued by the Buckstop Company for slandering their products including doe in heat urine. Anyway, just curious as to your thoughts on my experiences Stan! Asa

High Noon, very interesting read, still makes me scratch my head as it seems to substain my question to a degree.

Great topic Andy. This has to be a world record for keeping it clean. There are alot of possibilities with this one. LMAO. Good going everyone.

I have always heard of taking your dog if in heat with you on your line will help alot, since coyotes will mate with dogs then if someone bottled the dog in heat pee then it should be a major attraction in the breeding season, of course to be used in remote areas as you'll have every dog in the nieghborhood at your sets lol

Yep the two in my avatar are both male and house dogs. They know when "that" has happened.

I think the only time i was really truely seriuos was when i said " I Do" to my wife at our wedding. As the folks that visit the chat room know i am very realy a seriuos person. so I think it is best that I dont reply on your subject Andy.

Asa, I do think that there is something in doe-in-heat and I still sell it. I don't know what it is, but something is there that attracts bucks. We triple screen our urine but it seems to me that the more fecal matter in the doe-in-heat the better it is. I have so many customers that have good results that I carry it and at times use it myself. And I too must be careful that I don't get sued or I could tell you a whole lot more. It is up to the consumer to buy what they want and who they get it from. It is easy to sit in front of the TV and believe everything that is said. Bottom line is if you love what you do bad enough you'll look to every resource you can find. Just like you said about going to the court house and looking at records.
I use other scents with urine also at times. I have seen many people use urine and scents the wrong way and then blame the guy who makes it. If I hunt for meat on the table I'll use regular doe or young buck urine. If I'm hunting for Mr. Big it depends on the situation and that will dictate what I use. I just prefer young buck or Dom. buck.
I don't like to change things when something works well for me. But you must if your going to learn something new. I've been a bow hunter and trapper since 1972. When fur prices dropped I quit making trapping lures to study the Whitetail. Now I can't find the suppliers I used to have and have lost alot of money in the process throwing stuff away. Essential oils are different that they were back then. We now grow alot of our own stuff. I don't get out like I used too, but I hope that we can someday get to meet in person. This post buy Andy just pricked my interest pretty good as I had good success using the girl things long ago. Like I said you have to try things. The well is kinda dry now and I've found things that work better for me.
I can be a bad boy and had this post going down hill fast but I bit my tounge and tried to help from what I've learned over the last 30 some years of being a Whitetail nut. I've had my fun and in return try my best to help others by sharing. I gotta feed the deer so I may as well sell urine and try to give some real insight about it's use. I really didn't want to be a post hog here but I hope that I have helped someone like Andy. Stan

You come across to me as a sincere and knowledgeable guy Stan, I appreciate your input into this subject. Ace

Thanks:0)