Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: The Beav]
#6163045
02/19/18 06:28 PM
02/19/18 06:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,337 Northern MN
Osky
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,337
Northern MN
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Nope your all wrong. Nut cases don't worry about If It's a gun free zone or not. They go where there are lots of targets. You pull the fire alarm kids are heading for the exits. They are dead meat and by the time the few teachers that have guns react It's way to late. And how many kids may get caught In the cross fire? I can se that teacher opening fire with her glock trying to take out the bad guy.
Most of us have never been shot at or have had to shoot back. So we don't know what we would do In a situation. You can all jump up on your soap box and beat your chest(be careful Patrice) and tell us what you would do. But until It happens you don't know how you will react. And then you take some soccer mom with a gun who knows what will happen. No, your wrong. We may not know what we will get, but we know what we've already got. Osky
"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it" Jabless in Minnesota www.SureDockusa.com
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Patrice]
#6163054
02/19/18 06:37 PM
02/19/18 06:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,695 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,695
Green County Wisconsin
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Adam The Texas good guy with a gun was a neighbor a former NRA instructor who had to unlock his safe and grab an AR and mags then ran across the street barefoot and up to the door of the church he fired striking the gun who then fired back at him , he saw it coming or the gunman missed or he was able to step to the side and use the door frame for cover I don't know , the gunman left out the side of the church went to his vehicle and the good guy with a gun flagged down a complete stranger who immediately said yes and they pursued the gunman till he crashed into a parked car and died.
now Maybe it's just TX but to run bare foot to a church and end a rampage then the first guy you flag down driving by a person you have never met before welcomes you into his truck while your holding an rifle to chase down the gunman . well I would like to think there are a lot more of use that could be so self less.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: dublelung]
#6163059
02/19/18 06:43 PM
02/19/18 06:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218 MI
lebowski
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,218
MI
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Arming a bunch of minimally trained school staff is a recipe for disaster in an active shooter situation with hundreds (or thousands) of students nearby. And then you take some soccer mom with a gun who knows what will happen. I'd take that soccer mom on my side any day of the week when compared to an unarmed sheep waiting in line to die.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
--The Dude
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: lebowski]
#6163105
02/19/18 07:12 PM
02/19/18 07:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,695 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,695
Green County Wisconsin
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Arming a bunch of minimally trained school staff is a recipe for disaster in an active shooter situation with hundreds (or thousands) of students nearby. So decide what level of training is appropriate and lets start a fund to train them , I bet a case of beer If I wrote an NRA grant to train teachers who would be carrying at school they would approve it in a heart beat. probably send senior instructors to help. how about if we train them to pass the local police department annual firearms qualification test. BY the way how does it really get worse than one armed person loose in a school of unarmed victims , even if that teacher locks the door puts all the kids in the far corner and takes cover behind the desk waiting for the door to be kicked in and nothing happens it is no worse off.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 02/19/18 07:17 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: 330-Trapper]
#6163124
02/19/18 07:33 PM
02/19/18 07:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740 Central Oregon
AntiGov
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740
Central Oregon
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Dead Wrong Beav. It's one Giant step in the right direction. Gun free zones are killing fields !!! X2
Report a post club - Non member
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: lebowski]
#6163128
02/19/18 07:36 PM
02/19/18 07:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,827 Sauk County, WI
Patrice
OP
"TMan Feed Gestapo "
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OP
"TMan Feed Gestapo "
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,827
Sauk County, WI
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Arming a bunch of minimally trained school staff is a recipe for disaster in an active shooter situation with hundreds (or thousands) of students nearby. The recipe for disaster is the active shooter in an enclosed area with hundreds (or thousands) of students nearby and no armed school staff. And who says they are minimally trained?
WTA District 9 Director ... Go D9! Member: WTA, Intertel, Mensa (Trappers ain't stupid.) Life Member: NRA
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Patrice]
#6163145
02/19/18 07:45 PM
02/19/18 07:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,020 ohio
jctunnelrat
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,020
ohio
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I get sick every time I turn on the TV and hear people going on about this. They say it's time to do something! We need to pass laws to solve this problem! Well, in my opinion, we absolutely do. We need to pass the "common sense" gun control legislation we should have had all along. We need laws that prevent the creation of sitting duck zones like schools and churches and any place where people are gathered in groups in enclosed settings at appointed times and stripped of their second amendment rights to effectively defend themselves and others. If every law abiding and capable adult with a concealed carry permit was allowed to do so in these places, then these incidents would be limited in duration and casualties and a lot more of these kids would be alive today. No need to lock down schools like fortresses with one or two armed guards trying to protect hundreds of students. The same teachers and faculty who throw their bodies in front of these kids and die along with them like sheep could actually save them! In a school that doesn't force its teachers to leave their weapons in their cars outside, what do you think would have happened during the multiple intervals while this nutcase was reloading???
Granted, plenty of balls were dropped in the process of identifying this kid. He should have been stopped before he launched this attack - but that's not always the case. Often enough, someone's first identifiable offense is the deadly one. You cannot effective legislate an end to craziness, much less the onset of craziness before it even happens! And fortunately, we live in a country where we cannot be locked up before ever doing something wrong. But we should have the right to defend ourselves and that right should not be stripped because we enter a school or church or movie theater. This is insane. Every one of these mass shootings would have been so significantly reduced that we would be talking about the crazy guy who killed a few students and how we could have better identified and stopped him. A teacher surely would have and could have at numerous points during all of these sickening events.
All crazy mass shooters have certain things in common. They are capable and aware enough to plan, to drive, to load, to shoot - and to choose sitting duck zones where they can mow down helpless unarmed sheep. In the case of that orange haired guy who killed piles of people in the theater in Colorado, they found out he passed two other theaters on his way to the one that was a "no weapon zone" so he could kill all of those unarmed people. To clarify, I am not saying that my way will end craziness, but in every mass shooting case, it would reduce the slaughter.
No matter how we attempt to figure out who is crazy before they strike, we should not stop decent people from defending themselves and others. I cannot listen to these people go on about making the sitting duck zones worse. Our second amendment needs to be strengthened and backed up to defend law abiding citizens and those we care about. I'm sick of being a sitting duck every time I walk past one of those stupid no gun signs.
There. I'm done for now. Thanks for listening. Thank you! Well worded. Thanks for taking the time to express that ideology that I've been trying to say, but can't because it's hard to be rational when dealing with irrationals.
jim
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: lebowski]
#6163157
02/19/18 08:07 PM
02/19/18 08:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Arming a bunch of minimally trained school staff is a recipe for disaster in an active shooter situation with hundreds (or thousands) of students nearby. What's your solution then? Let's hear it. Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Hatchetman]
#6163184
02/19/18 08:31 PM
02/19/18 08:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,827 Sauk County, WI
Patrice
OP
"TMan Feed Gestapo "
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OP
"TMan Feed Gestapo "
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,827
Sauk County, WI
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I know plenty of teachers who carry and are demanding the right to carry while at work in their schools. They have never asked for compensation. They can and do handle the responsibility everywhere else they go in their lives. These are responsible citizens who carry everywhere else and have to leave their firearms in their vehicles or at home when they go to work in sitting duck zones. I am not concerned about the statistical probability of one nutcase teacher who wants to murder a student. I would put that person in the same category as the original active shooter we are talking about. Thank goodness if the rest of the capable and responsible faculty are carrying if that ever happens.
WTA District 9 Director ... Go D9! Member: WTA, Intertel, Mensa (Trappers ain't stupid.) Life Member: NRA
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Patrice]
#6163189
02/19/18 08:34 PM
02/19/18 08:34 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,646 Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,646
Oakland, MS
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I don't think anyone is advocating forcing teachers to carry. Just saying allow concealed carry holders to carry on campus if they wish to. Things are different in different areas of the country, but down here tons of people carry. I'm sure Beav even saw plenty of people walking around down here with a gun on their hip... it's not uncommon to see in restaurants, stores, etc.
We have a law in congress now that would allow enhanced concealed carry holders to carry in schools and colleges. It's probably going to pass. That enhanced concealed carry requires passing tests including shooting tests. It wouldn't be like a bunch of soccer mom's run out and buy guns, strap them on and go to school.. it's about allowing the people that already carry, to do so in school.
No, I've never had to shoot anyone and hope I never do have to, but I would like to be allowed to have my right to protect myself and others, no matter where I am.
~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Patrice]
#6163190
02/19/18 08:34 PM
02/19/18 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,979 rogers city mi.
jeff karsten
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,979
rogers city mi.
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good points by all owning and carrying a gun doesn't equate to being proficient in one's use my 2 cents is this most people wont except we live in a violent culture and they're hoping a new law will turn back time even after all the shootings most schools ,churches etc don't have a procedure for safety outside of everyone flooding towards the exits not even aware where the emergency is or what it is As pointed out in the media several students were running toward the shooter and as also pointed out frequently there are others who know or have an idea whats being planned and it must be investigated Small towns especially don't want to think I can happen here . My wife worked at the courthouse in town pop 3000 a person who was going thru a rough custody battle told a social worker he was going to shoot the courthouse up when he showed upfor court the next day she called the sheriffs dept. one of the deputy's said he knew the person and whould talk to them he reported the person told him he didn't mean it so he was allowed in when the county workers found this out he was in the courthouse for 2 houirs already and the sheriff told them if anything was going to happen it already would have they found out because the sheriff told the 2 custodians to watch the exits and report any suspicious activity this thinking is whats got to stop
olden tyred
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: The Beav]
#6163196
02/19/18 08:38 PM
02/19/18 08:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 786 Illinois Livingston county
wwc
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 786
Illinois Livingston county
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I'd take that soccer mom on my side any day of the week when compared to an unarmed sheep waiting in line to die. [/quote] Don't be so sure I know or knew a lot of soccer moms. [/quote] I help train soccer mom's basic pistol and I can tell you with no reservations that most would be more deadly then the average male.dont underestimate a well trained individual in a bad situation.
Your money is not worth my sanity
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Patrice]
#6163227
02/19/18 09:06 PM
02/19/18 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,639 Warren co Mo
hrdtoflw
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,639
Warren co Mo
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Patrice, I like yo way o thinkin. Now to really save lots of lives, the school kid protesters could be told how they could help. No driving priviledge until you're 25!!! Bet they would tell me how I'm wanting to keep them down! I don't think the current issue has a perfect answer, but the mindset of people has been infected past the point of no return. I go armed, and I will shoot back first!
If your mind draws a blank, turn off the sound, because ya can't learn a thing if you're doin all the talkin
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: hrdtoflw]
#6163253
02/19/18 09:29 PM
02/19/18 09:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,690 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,690
Rodney,Ohio
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No driving priviledge until you're 25!!! Bet they would tell me how I'm wanting to keep them down! Some studies so that many millennials don't even want to own a car in these days of calling an Uber or Lyft so that isn't much of a threat to most non rural communities.
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Patrice]
#6163343
02/19/18 10:33 PM
02/19/18 10:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,077 Wyoming
cmcf
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,077
Wyoming
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Patrice; your post is one of, if not the most intelligent well thought out and common sense solution to a complex problem I have read on this forum to date. Bravo! To the Beav, if you believe that amateurs are ineffectual in stopping an armed threat, I suggest you pick up a copy of American Hunter, or The American Rifleman. You know the official journals of the NRA? EVERY ISSUE HAS A HALF DOZEN CURRENT EXAMPLES OF LAW ABIDING CITIZENS SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDING THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES WITH A GUN. Some of them are grandmothers in a wheelchair! A lot of them have had no "training" at all. "An armed society is a polite society". I refuse to be a victim. The member that compared a mass murderer to an animal is spot on. Act like a rabid dog, die like a rabid dog. Again, WELL SAID PATRICE!
“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli
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Re: We do need new gun control laws!
[Re: Patrice]
#6163349
02/19/18 10:38 PM
02/19/18 10:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 605 Central PA, God's Country
PAlltheway
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 605
Central PA, God's Country
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I get sick every time I turn on the TV and hear people going on about this. They say it's time to do something! We need to pass laws to solve this problem! Well, in my opinion, we absolutely do. We need to pass the "common sense" gun control legislation we should have had all along. We need laws that prevent the creation of sitting duck zones like schools and churches and any place where people are gathered in groups in enclosed settings at appointed times and stripped of their second amendment rights to effectively defend themselves and others. If every law abiding and capable adult with a concealed carry permit was allowed to do so in these places, then these incidents would be limited in duration and casualties and a lot more of these kids would be alive today. No need to lock down schools like fortresses with one or two armed guards trying to protect hundreds of students. The same teachers and faculty who throw their bodies in front of these kids and die along with them like sheep could actually save them! In a school that doesn't force its teachers to leave their weapons in their cars outside, what do you think would have happened during the multiple intervals while this nutcase was reloading???
Granted, plenty of balls were dropped in the process of identifying this kid. He should have been stopped before he launched this attack - but that's not always the case. Often enough, someone's first identifiable offense is the deadly one. You cannot effective legislate an end to craziness, much less the onset of craziness before it even happens! And fortunately, we live in a country where we cannot be locked up before ever doing something wrong. But we should have the right to defend ourselves and that right should not be stripped because we enter a school or church or movie theater. This is insane. Every one of these mass shootings would have been so significantly reduced that we would be talking about the crazy guy who killed a few students and how we could have better identified and stopped him. A teacher surely would have and could have at numerous points during all of these sickening events.
All crazy mass shooters have certain things in common. They are capable and aware enough to plan, to drive, to load, to shoot - and to choose sitting duck zones where they can mow down helpless unarmed sheep. In the case of that orange haired guy who killed piles of people in the theater in Colorado, they found out he passed two other theaters on his way to the one that was a "no weapon zone" so he could kill all of those unarmed people. To clarify, I am not saying that my way will end craziness, but in every mass shooting case, it would reduce the slaughter.
No matter how we attempt to figure out who is crazy before they strike, we should not stop decent people from defending themselves and others. I cannot listen to these people go on about making the sitting duck zones worse. Our second amendment needs to be strengthened and backed up to defend law abiding citizens and those we care about. I'm sick of being a sitting duck every time I walk past one of those stupid no gun signs.
There. I'm done for now. Thanks for listening. Well said. "Gun Free Zones" are dangerous places. Consider that nearly all "active shooters" turn their firearms on themselves when they are confronted with armed force, and we realize that while armed teachers and administrators might not completely prevent these school shootings, they would dramatically reduce their duration and leathality.
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