Ms. state auction has a no sell policy as well or did when i sold there years ago. Sounds like this auction models itself from NAFA, might work fine for a big international auction but seems down right silly for a small state auction.

At any rate id NEVER drop fur off at a state ran auction and hope for the best! Sorry you got the shaft but lesson learned, least your not as bad off as one person who frequent's here from time to time, he sold a whole truck load during the boom to a traveling fur buyer only to later have the check bounce and guy had skipped town after doing the same to several other trappers along the route he was running!

Thanks to everyone who can put themselves in my shoes and see how they would feel. I appreciate the support.

Yeah, I made a mistake for delivering my fur there and that's on me. As I have said many times it is a good thing it happend to me instead of a kid or someone who really needed the money. Imagine if I had a better catch and thier would have been better prices.

I was let down this year because of all the vehicle problems and other stuff that got in the way. If I would have done better it would have made the fur buyers check bigger. The animals should be there next season and hopefully I get a better return for my hard work at another place obviously. I never plan on making money, I just want some of it back to put towards next season and my hunting license and tags.

This auction was very unfair to me and I hope that some of my fellow trappers will remember this post when they are thinking of going to this auction. I would advise everyone to go to an auction that has the option of a "no sale". Ky boys please stay away and warn your fellow trappers who are not on Trapperman.

Two things standout to me, one the price of castor,$40 top that's $15 under the market, unless there wasn't any 1s or 2s. The other thing is green beaver, you don't need to put up those to sell them as Groney prefers them that way. I would think they would be worth at least $5 ave unless they were all smalls.

I had one kit beaver and I would guess all of the others were in the 33-42 pound size give or take a few pounds.

Hopefully, I can shed a little bit of light on part of this situation. I am one of the 3 WVTA graders, and I am the one who consigned all the green fur, including Lot 308, on Sunday morning. One of the first things I said was that I wished this trapper's green fur had been put up. The trapper replied he had no place to dry his fur this year. Told the trapper I wished he gotten in touch with Randy Cantrell, as he could have probably helped. (Randy and others from KY have sold their finished fur through our auctions in the past years). It is my writing on the consignment sheet, I wrote 'Kentucky' because I was reminding myself to be sure to type KY: on the buyer's sheet. (I also do the sale printout and calculations that go with each seller's check). The reason I wrote 'Kentucky' was because the bobcats had Kentucky CITES seals. (Our DNR is present to seal every cat, and it was also noted for their benefit as well). With our finished fur, cats sealed in a state other than WV is always placed in separate lots. As JT mentioned, we had finished cats from PA in the sale this year. In year's past, we've had plenty of KY cats sold through the finished fur. Our finished fur is sold in graded lots. We graded this year from 8am to about 8pm both Friday and Saturday. Each consignor may withdraw his fur if he feels he has received a grade he is not happy with. Once the fur is hung into the lot, it goes to the highest bidder. We had 17 buyers at the March sale. (For those who don't understand our auction, that means your XXXL 1 & 2 coon are put into a lot with everyone else's XXXL 1 & 2 coon and the buyer purchases the entire lot). With green fur (which is consigned on Sunday morning prior to the auction), the fur is not graded, and simply listed as a count of each item. We also note on the sheet if the item is on the carcass as well. Unfortunately, there were only a couple of buyers present who were interested in the green fur, and there was a huge amount of it this year. (We always encourage everyone to put up their fur to receive the best possible prices). I admit, I was surprised at the low price this lot went for, because I thought the cats alone would sell the lot (no, I don't remember how big the cats were, as I consigned 448 pieces of fur that morning). Two of our graders also have their fur buyer's license, but we are prohibited from purchasing fur through the WVTA auction. Regarding the beaver castor -- our grades are Semi-Dry, Dry, Wet, and Castor with Oil Sacs. We don't normally get enough castor at our sale to begin grading them into #1, #2, etc. The WVTA currently does not have a 'no sale' option with the green fur. In fact, very few people who consign green fur attend the auction. I didn't reply to this post earlier because I just heard about it this morning. And no, I don't believe the fact that the cats were sealed in Kentucky had anything to do with the price. In past years, the finished Kentucky cats have always sold as well as cats sealed in other states. I am sorry that this buyer received so little for his green fur, but I'm more sorry that he is urging everyone not to consign fur through our auctions because of the price he received for green fur. Historically speaking, the WVTA auctions have shown higher prices per volume that many states (finished fur). And regarding the averages posted on our website -- yes, I did that as well. I calculate only the finished fur and the prices they brought to provide the average/high/low prices. Green fur is not calculated because we have no way of knowing an average when all that seller's fur is sold as one lot.

Well thanks for responding . BUT the fact that ANYONE got treated like this should be a red flag for ALL trappers to shy away from your auction.
Who was the buyer ? If he was a seasoned buyer he knew he was stealing the fur.

But what goes around comes around........

It is my understanding the buyer was Danny Stutler of Creston, WV. I just looked over the sale sheet, and there were 8 different buyers who purchased the green fur.

I don't have a dog in this fight... but I'll bet not one trapper that has followed this thru will attend a WV sale in the future, if the same format is followed. Jan-WV... your post on it all was stand-up on your part for sure. It still stinks, IMO...

I'm just curious. What if only one buyer was interested in green fur and he offered $1 for everything at the auction would he get it?

That's a tough one. The easy answer would be yes, according to the current green fur auction standards. But I honestly can't see that happening, as some of the other fur buyers would probably jump in and raise the price. I can see the problems with the handling of the green fur and will address it at the next board of directors meeting. In the 1970s, it is my understanding that each person was allowed to sell his/her fur and pay $2 if they refused the offer. That was back in the days of less than 50 consignors - now, we usually have well over 300. As I understand it, much of that fur was also green as well. Over the years, they began a graded auction and didn't accept raw fur at all -- an attempt at getting people to put up their fur or just sell to a local country buyer who often ended up selling his fur at the WVTA auction instead of shipping. About 15 years ago or so, they decided to again accept raw fur. I know the vote wasn't unanimous to do so. Speaking from experience, we have a handful of people who consign green fur that is skinned well, properly taken care of, and you can't help but wonder why they aren't putting it up for better money. Many of the rest simply don't care -- it isn't unusual to see a consignor bring in a truck load of coyotes frozen on the carcass (many with bad rubs), or 25 coon that have been thawed for days and starting to rot, pelts that have slipping fur, a lot of #3 dog caught coon, etc. And regarding the buyers, I know that WVTA contacts as many buyers as possible to bid at the sale -- but the majority of those buyers want finished fur. Perhaps more of an effort should be given to finding buyers of green fur, or to simply go back and stop taking in the green fur. I can really see the concerns, and they are valid. Again, we will bring this before the board in June to see if the situation can be remedied. I honestly don't know why Lot 308 sold for so little.

Be a good place to buy green beaver at basically no cost.

Jan, I'm not saying it's likely but that is essentially what happened to Trapper123456. He barely got a steak dinner for his fur. Obviously you guys aren't going to Vegas on your $2.50 either.

I don't think it's fair to bring up truck loads of rotted coon or rubbed fur. It's not what he had. I think he understand he will get much less for his unfinished fur but you basically gave it away.

My point was you don't have any protection against that sort of thing. Hopefully you get it all sorted in June.

Wow! Been seeing this post, but hadn't taken the time to read it. Now that I have...well, wow!

All of the "where it was from", "green vs. put-up", to the side. Those prices sucked. Lumping a trapper's green hides together as a single lot does NOT sound to me like the association is trying to get the most for the fur. Items lumped together at any auction just tend to bring less than individually sold items, or items grouped together by size, quality, condition, etc.

I can understand how, by using the grading system, finished furs from different trappers would be lumped together, making a NO SALE impractical. My question is, why only do put-up fur that way? Why isn't the green fur at least sold by species? I may be missing something, but the way I'm reading this; put-up fur graded and lotted with same grade, regardless of origin. Green fur, regardless of differing species, lotted as fur belonging to an individual. That seems odd, maybe too time consuming to do all fur the same?

The state relying on sales numbers at auctions for harvest numbers is flawed at best. It does not take into account the hunters and trappers who ship. My state uses our auction data for harvest statistics, and it's flawed.

Another question is why the two auctions, in the same state, are run differently? Are different organizations running them? That seemed odd too.

It seems like when the market fell, many buyers took advantage of those unwilling/unable to put- up their fur. I'm not saying they're wrong. When I purchase, I want the best deal I can get. Especially if I purchase small, and sell for big. Too many trappers don't trap based on the market, which is usually pretty clear about what they do or don't want. Too many trappers don't trap species based on the primeness of fur. Too many trappers don't take pride in their FUR! Too many take pride in the number of catches over anything else. Fur handling is a skill. A skill involving work. Fur buyers, IMO, have learned to take advantage of this lack of skill and use their skills to profit from it. Sounds a lot like me in the construction world. There are simply too many hunters/trappers who are eager to have someone take the furs off their hands and complete the job. That's a take what you can get situation. Buyers are just investors. They pay more for those items most likely to bring the biggest profit. Put-up fur takes a lot of the guess-work out of the equation. Guess-work results in risky investments, so the potential profit margin has to be there. That means they give you less for green hides in most instances. Young trappers need to learn to finish their fur. And, when it comes to selling your fur, you should put in at least as much effort in to learning who, when, how-to as you did in trying to decide which trap was gonna help you catch the most.

Randy was referring to the OSTA sale, not a WVTA sale.

Jan-WV THANK YOU for taking the time to shed some light on the situation.

I personally ain't gonna blame some fur buyer for getting fur cheap. I haven't heard of an armed fur heist in years. If you ship you take your chances. If you sell at an auction, learn the in's and out's of how the auction is run, and take advantage of any that allow NO SALES and minimums.

I watch trappers at our state association sell furs for less than the per pelt commission charged. And, they have the NO SALE option, they are standing right there. That would tell me as a buyer, this fella is willing to pay to have someone take the fur off his hands. I am not a buyer, never been one. I agree that, buyers should offer a fair price for fur, but that's about good business decisions not a commandment. If you low-ball people, you'll lose business to someone who makes a better offer. Bottom line is, fur buying is a business. I take my fur to buyers and get better prices from them than they offered at auction many times. It doesn't upset me that he didn't bid that at auction. Auction says SALE to many folks. Most attend auction in-general to pick-up hard to find items or CHEAPER items. That's why I go to them anyways. Fur auctions benefit the best of what is offered, as far as prices. Never has been the same amount of competition for lesser items. Our auctioneers have had to nearly beg someone to make any bid on some stuff that shows up. Trappers owe it to themselves and the animals they trap to learn good fur-handling and put-up.

I would say the solution to this not happening in the future is pretty straight forward.
This auction attracts buyers who are primarily there to buy fur that is graded and part lotted into uniform bundles.
The answer is for this auction to not accept any fur that is not stretched and dried.

Ta Dah--easy huh Boco.

Not sure about the misunderstanding, but we now have 1 fur auction per year -- March. The finished fur is auctioned fur, followed by the roots/herbs, and lastly, the raw fur. There are several fur buyers in our state, but only one WVTA, and, currently, only 1 WVTA auction.

Boco - problem is, every body doesn't put up their fur. Lots of guys like to sell green.

May not be that way in Canada but it is a fact of life here in the lower 48. Especially in the eastern half of the Midwest. Deal with it!!

No good deed goes unpunished. If WVTA had stuck its guns, this thread wouldn't even exist. The prices sellers received at this auction for put up fur, seem to be right in line. Why should they boycott this auction just because somebody got screwed on green fur? The trappers association doesn't have any control over what these buyers bid, NOR SHOULD THEY! There are any number of excuses for not putting up fur -- none of which gets the fur on the stretcher.

I understand having your fur lumped in with other likes specimens, and not having a "personal" no-sale on individual items. As noted, that is how it goes if you ship your furs north. But I don't think I could consign a "lot" of green fur without the option to take it back home, and find some way or another to put it up. I understand the no sale option when the skins become mixed you can't have a trapper holler "no sale". But if a trapper is standing there with his own lot of skins, he should be allowed to refuse sale, and pay the commission on the asking price.

If not, you get something like the above occurrence. There's no joke about a bad fur market. A lot of fur buyers really don't want to buy fur. The profit margin is just too low. Green fur is a nuisance unless you can buy it cheap. Somebody did.

My sincere advice to all trappers who might be effected, is to not bring your green fur to the WVTA fur sale. For those of you who sell finished pelts, it seems this sale produces prices that are at least competitive.

With that said, I don't see why you can't accompany your lot of green fur to the auction floor, and choose to reject the bid offered. If the WVTA sale offered that option, I think I could recommend that you sell your green pelts there as well.