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red fox question #6257026
06/09/18 08:18 PM
06/09/18 08:18 PM
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New York
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nyhuntfish Offline OP
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New York
I have this "Mangy red fox" in my yard, so I'm told by an expert.

Ethically:

Do I leave it alone? Do I kill it?

Can anyone give me the correct answer? Thanks.

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257028
06/09/18 08:20 PM
06/09/18 08:20 PM
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Posts: 1,139
New York
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nyhuntfish Offline OP
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New York

Last edited by nyhuntfish; 06/10/18 08:28 AM.

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257030
06/09/18 08:25 PM
06/09/18 08:25 PM
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S.E. Ohio
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M.Magis Offline
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S.E. Ohio
SSS

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257036
06/09/18 08:36 PM
06/09/18 08:36 PM
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Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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What are you waiting for? Be kind to animals.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257037
06/09/18 08:37 PM
06/09/18 08:37 PM
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New York
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nyhuntfish Offline OP
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I just wondered if it somehow were contaminating other animals. I am most kind to animals. Hence my query.


Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257047
06/09/18 08:55 PM
06/09/18 08:55 PM
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Posts: 14
MN
S
Saddletramp Offline
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MN
I think he meant, be kind and end it's suffering.

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257053
06/09/18 09:04 PM
06/09/18 09:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,509
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
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In my opinion the ethical thing to do is kill it. I’m not sure if that is correct or legal. Do you have a friend who is a game warden locally you can call?


Stop over cooking your meat! It isn’t gamey, it’s over cooked!

Gordon Ramsey, maybe…
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257062
06/09/18 09:18 PM
06/09/18 09:18 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Leave it be.Nothing wrong with that fox.They look rough like that when they are shedding their winter coat.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: red fox question [Re: Boco] #6257090
06/09/18 10:07 PM
06/09/18 10:07 PM
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west ny
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bulldozerjoe Offline
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Originally Posted By: Boco
Leave it be.Nothing wrong with that fox.They look rough like that when they are shedding their winter coat.

This^^^^^^ I got one out back also... look at the deer around, they look the same


No matter how much money you make, always eat good🐠
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257095
06/09/18 10:12 PM
06/09/18 10:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,509
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
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On second look at the pictures, I don’t think that fox has mange. He is scraggly looking though. But it is probably fine, leave it be.


Stop over cooking your meat! It isn’t gamey, it’s over cooked!

Gordon Ramsey, maybe…
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257106
06/09/18 10:19 PM
06/09/18 10:19 PM
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Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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With a completely bare tail like that I'd put money on sarcoptic mange. Even a really scraggly looking, shedding animal will still have a good amount of guard hair. There is something wrong with an animal with large bald patches of skin.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: red fox question [Re: waggler] #6257109
06/09/18 10:23 PM
06/09/18 10:23 PM
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Posts: 9,509
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
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Originally Posted By: waggler
With a completely bare tail like that I'd put money on sarcoptic mange. Even a really scraggly looking, shedding animal will still have a good amount of guard hair. There is something wrong with an animal with large bald patches of skin.


I didn’t really look at the tail.



Stop over cooking your meat! It isn’t gamey, it’s over cooked!

Gordon Ramsey, maybe…
Re: red fox question [Re: Boco] #6257136
06/09/18 11:53 PM
06/09/18 11:53 PM
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potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Boco
Leave it be.Nothing wrong with that fox.They look rough like that when they are shedding their winter coat.


yepper









Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257139
06/10/18 12:00 AM
06/10/18 12:00 AM
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SWMo.
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tjm Offline
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1 cc of 1% ivermectin would clear that right up if it is mange. Normally an subcutaneous (under skin on the neck) injection or it can be given orally. I have cured bad mange in dogs.

Re: red fox question [Re: tjm] #6257192
06/10/18 06:34 AM
06/10/18 06:34 AM
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Wheaton Ks
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lee steinmeyer Offline
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Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted By: tjm
1 cc of 1% ivermectin would clear that right up if it is mange. Normally an subcutaneous (under skin on the neck) injection or it can be given orally. I have cured bad mange in dogs.


^^^^^^. This is the kindest thing you could do and keep the fox around. Put it in some drop baits where you are seeing the fox. Put out enough to treat the pups and female too!


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257210
06/10/18 07:16 AM
06/10/18 07:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,139
New York
N
nyhuntfish Offline OP
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Thanks for the responses. I might try the ivermectin thing, great idea. I was just concerned it might be somehow contaminating a population, Or rolling around in a field where kids play and that could create a problem for them.

Thanks!


Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257220
06/10/18 07:33 AM
06/10/18 07:33 AM
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Georgia
warrior Offline
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Georgia
Is this a trapping forum or a crazy cat lady forum?
Kill it if it bothers you that much. FCOL


[Linked Image]
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257243
06/10/18 08:20 AM
06/10/18 08:20 AM
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potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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Bully laugh









Re: red fox question [Re: warrior] #6257267
06/10/18 08:47 AM
06/10/18 08:47 AM
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Lugnut Offline
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Originally Posted By: warrior
Is this a trapping forum or a crazy cat lady forum?
Kill it if it bothers you that much. FCOL


Maybe he's looking at it as a high-dollar investment. If he saves it from mange now he can catch it this winter and earn big bucks...$10.00-$12.00 at least... grin


Eh...wot?

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257278
06/10/18 08:57 AM
06/10/18 08:57 AM
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potter co. p.a.
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pcr2 Offline
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who's payin that much??? grin









Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257309
06/10/18 09:54 AM
06/10/18 09:54 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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Even if an animal has mange it can still survive.MNR had pics of a tagged wolf that had mange.It was caught by a trapper the following winter and had a beautiful coat.The council had the pelt tanned for demonstration,with the pics of the same wolf with the mange the year before,on display beside the pelt.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: red fox question [Re: pcr2] #6257313
06/10/18 10:00 AM
06/10/18 10:00 AM
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Iowa
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Iowa
Originally Posted By: pcr2
who's payin that much??? grin
I know of some would pay that for some if they are right.


Life member of DAV,NTA,NRA,ITA.Also member of FTA,CBA
Re: red fox question [Re: Boco] #6257324
06/10/18 10:24 AM
06/10/18 10:24 AM
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Posts: 1,494
idaho
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wallfur Offline
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idaho
Originally Posted By: Boco
Even if an animal has mange it can still survive.MNR had pics of a tagged wolf that had mange.It was caught by a trapper the following winter and had a beautiful coat.The council had the pelt tanned for demonstration,with the pics of the same wolf with the mange the year before,on display beside the pelt.
....mange has killed 95% of the red fox in our area. Coyote and wolf have done better they are bigger and tougher than fox. best thing to do for all wildlife in the area is to kill or cure that fox (live trap and medicine) before it spreads to others. that's not sheading with that fox its has mange and is going to suffer a cruel death if left alone.

Last edited by wallfur; 06/10/18 10:25 AM.
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257365
06/10/18 11:28 AM
06/10/18 11:28 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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I doubt it,all wild animals are tough and evolved along with their parasites to be able to cope.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: red fox question [Re: Boco] #6257384
06/10/18 11:48 AM
06/10/18 11:48 AM
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Lugnut Offline
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A study I read indicated that a red fox infested with Sarcoptes Scabiei mites will be dead in an average of four months if not treated. Secondary infections develop after they scratch and bite themselves open. Have you ever smelled a fox infested with mange and infected with secondary bacterial infection? The eggs and fecal debris left behind continue to cause pruritus which in turn causes more self mutilation and the cycle continues almost always resulting in death.


Eh...wot?

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257398
06/10/18 12:10 PM
06/10/18 12:10 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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It is a sign of poorly managed population,and will thin out the overpopulation,resulting in a longterm decline.This is natures way.Overpopulated animals are generally weak from poor nutrition,thus having suppressed immune systems,and they are not able to cope with a disease breakout.Mange will kill weak animals but stronger healthy populations that are managed can cope.
Mange is but one of the tools nature has to bring populations back into balance,albeit in a dramatic way.
I have only seen mange on my trapline twice in a fox and once in a wolf.Much more common in wolf is lice,which is also not fatal,unless the animals are in a weakened condition from overpopulation.
I still say the fox in the pic is just shedding,scratching and chewing to get rid of the loose hair.
If you have an overpopulation of fox and it is mange you would be doing it good to euthanize it.
However,there is no reason to kill an animal because it is shedding its winter pelage.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257404
06/10/18 12:22 PM
06/10/18 12:22 PM
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pa
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hippie Offline
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Mange


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: red fox question [Re: Boco] #6257414
06/10/18 12:35 PM
06/10/18 12:35 PM
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idaho
W
wallfur Offline
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idaho
Originally Posted By: Boco
It is a sign of poorly managed population,and will thin out the overpopulation,resulting in a longterm decline.This is natures way.Overpopulated animals are generally weak from poor nutrition,thus having suppressed immune systems,and they are not able to cope with a disease breakout.Mange will kill weak animals but stronger healthy populations that are managed can cope.
Mange is but one of the tools nature has to bring populations back into balance,albeit in a dramatic way.
I have only seen mange on my trapline twice in a fox and once in a wolf.Much more common in wolf is lice,which is also not fatal,unless the animals are in a weakened condition from overpopulation.
I still say the fox in the pic is just shedding,scratching and chewing to get rid of the loose hair.
If you have an overpopulation of fox and it is mange you would be doing it good to euthanize it.
However,there is no reason to kill an animal because it is shedding its winter pelage.
....an your an expert on mange after only seeing it twice in fox? that fox in the photo has mange! look at its tail fox will never lose that much hair on the tail even when shedding. most mange will be noticed first on the tail. I went from catching 300 to 400 fox a year to just catching 2 or 3 a year.

Re: red fox question [Re: wallfur] #6257421
06/10/18 12:42 PM
06/10/18 12:42 PM
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Montana
Taximan Offline
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Montana
Originally Posted By: wallfur
Originally Posted By: Boco
Even if an animal has mange it can still survive.MNR had pics of a tagged wolf that had mange.It was caught by a trapper the following winter and had a beautiful coat.The council had the pelt tanned for demonstration,with the pics of the same wolf with the mange the year before,on display beside the pelt.
....mange has killed 95% of the red fox in our area. Coyote and wolf have done better they are bigger and tougher than fox. best thing to do for all wildlife in the area is to kill or cure that fox (live trap and medicine) before it spreads to others. that's not sheading with that fox its has mange and is going to suffer a cruel death if left alone.


The mange that fox get is a different version than the one that coyotes and wolves get.

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257424
06/10/18 12:49 PM
06/10/18 12:49 PM
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tjm Offline
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Originally Posted By: nyhuntfish
Thanks for the responses. I might try the ivermectin thing, great idea. I was just concerned it might be somehow contaminating a population, Or rolling around in a field where kids play and that could create a problem for them.

Thanks!
Mange mites are mostly species specific, the kids aren't likely to get them. The mites spread basically the same way kids spread head lice, getting close to and touching other fox. The mites can only live for very short time without the body heat of the fox, so any mites that are rubbed off on a tree or the grass will die quickly.
Ivermectin in consumable baits would cure the fox and any other fox that eat the baits. It also will cure the intestinal worms the fox obviously has and any ticks or lice it get for 30-90 days.
It is a bit costly.

Re: red fox question [Re: Lugnut] #6257427
06/10/18 12:52 PM
06/10/18 12:52 PM
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tjm Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lugnut
A study I read indicated that a red fox infested with Sarcoptes Scabiei mites will be dead in an average of four months if not treated. Secondary infections develop after they scratch and bite themselves open. Have you ever smelled a fox infested with mange and infected with secondary bacterial infection? The eggs and fecal debris left behind continue to cause pruritus which in turn causes more self mutilation and the cycle continues almost always resulting in death.



I believe that.
Any chance of a link or a title?

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6257432
06/10/18 01:06 PM
06/10/18 01:06 PM
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Posts: 47,801
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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All mange mites are species specific,and on a side note scabies(the human form of mange),even untreated in third world countries is not fatal.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258091
06/11/18 03:49 PM
06/11/18 03:49 PM
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St. Louis Co, Mo
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BigBob Offline
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Looks more like a flea infestation to me, chewing on the spots it can reach.


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: red fox question [Re: tjm] #6258172
06/11/18 06:17 PM
06/11/18 06:17 PM
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Lugnut Offline
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Originally Posted By: tjm
Originally Posted By: Lugnut
A study I read indicated that a red fox infested with Sarcoptes Scabiei mites will be dead in an average of four months if not treated. Secondary infections develop after they scratch and bite themselves open. Have you ever smelled a fox infested with mange and infected with secondary bacterial infection? The eggs and fecal debris left behind continue to cause pruritus which in turn causes more self mutilation and the cycle continues almost always resulting in death.



I believe that.
Any chance of a link or a title?


This is not the study I was referring to but an interesting article that says essentially the same thing.


Eh...wot?

Re: red fox question [Re: Lugnut] #6258178
06/11/18 06:34 PM
06/11/18 06:34 PM
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Lugnut Offline
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I live in an area with a high red fox population. I see mange in about 10%-15% of the fox I catch. Mostly it is in the beginning stages affecting the tail, crotch and/or rear legs. I almost always put them up if the mange is not too advanced.

I get a kick out of the folks who recommend building a bonfire and incinerating them or burying them which is hard to do when winter has the ground froze as hard as concrete. I have put up many mangy fox with no issues at all. The relatively few I catch with advanced mange are discarded in an out-of-the-way place on the trap line. I don't think the mites survive very long in freezing conditions once the host is dead.

The percent of mangy fox I catch has been steady over the last 10-15 years so, while I believe it is almost always fatal, I don't think it spreads as easily as some think and it has certainly not caused any population crash in my area.


Eh...wot?

Re: red fox question [Re: DelawareRob] #6258179
06/11/18 06:35 PM
06/11/18 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: DelawareRob
Originally Posted By: waggler
With a completely bare tail like that I'd put money on sarcoptic mange. Even a really scraggly looking, shedding animal will still have a good amount of guard hair. There is something wrong with an animal with large bald patches of skin.


I didn’t really look at the tail.



I too would bet that this fox has mange.


Eh...wot?

Re: red fox question [Re: wallfur] #6258541
06/12/18 11:39 AM
06/12/18 11:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,202
sseMinnesota
blackhammer Offline
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sseMinnesota
Originally Posted By: wallfur
Originally Posted By: Boco
It is a sign of poorly managed population,and will thin out the overpopulation,resulting in a longterm decline.This is natures way.Overpopulated animals are generally weak from poor nutrition,thus having suppressed immune systems,and they are not able to cope with a disease breakout.Mange will kill weak animals but stronger healthy populations that are managed can cope.
Mange is but one of the tools nature has to bring populations back into balance,albeit in a dramatic way.
I have only seen mange on my trapline twice in a fox and once in a wolf.Much more common in wolf is lice,which is also not fatal,unless the animals are in a weakened condition from overpopulation.
I still say the fox in the pic is just shedding,scratching and chewing to get rid of the loose hair.
If you have an overpopulation of fox and it is mange you would be doing it good to euthanize it.
However,there is no reason to kill an animal because it is shedding its winter pelage.
....an your an expert on mange after only seeing it twice in fox? that fox in the photo has mange! look at its tail fox will never lose that much hair on the tail even when shedding. most mange will be noticed first on the tail. I went from catching 300 to 400 fox a year to just catching 2 or 3 a year.
He’s full of it. Also coyotes and wolf are much tougher and more likely to survive. A fox gets mange it’s dead plain and simple


Ah,for the life of a millionaire,say some,but just let me stay a trapper. Bill Nelson
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258543
06/12/18 11:43 AM
06/12/18 11:43 AM
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Posts: 2,202
sseMinnesota
blackhammer Offline
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sseMinnesota
Even with low fox populations mange shows up here


Ah,for the life of a millionaire,say some,but just let me stay a trapper. Bill Nelson
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258545
06/12/18 11:49 AM
06/12/18 11:49 AM
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Posts: 3,494
NWT
Ryan McLeod Offline
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Ryan McLeod  Offline
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NWT
That's mange.


If you take care of the land the land will take care of you
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258644
06/12/18 03:42 PM
06/12/18 03:42 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Well,I did a bit of research in the bible,(Page 900,Under Parasitic infections)it states "Mange MAY be a serious mortality factor under SOME conditions"."Mortality is particularly high in YOUNG red foxes".
Mange is NOT 100% fatal in red foxes.


Last edited by Boco; 06/12/18 03:44 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258647
06/12/18 03:51 PM
06/12/18 03:51 PM
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idaho
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wallfur Offline
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idaho
Well i did my research on the trapline....the 5 percent that does survive you better leave for seed...if they are fully recovered and have no change of spreading mange.

Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258662
06/12/18 04:33 PM
06/12/18 04:33 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
LOL,mange will kill young animals or those with weakened immune systems during a zoonotic episode.Healthy animals are well able to cope.
Mange is the worst of the ectoparasites,and during periods of overpopulation has killed up to 40% of the population.
Red foxes are more succeptable to mange than grey foxes.

Last edited by Boco; 06/12/18 04:35 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258686
06/12/18 05:20 PM
06/12/18 05:20 PM
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NWT
Ryan McLeod Offline
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Ryan McLeod  Offline
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Yup.....Mange!


If you take care of the land the land will take care of you
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6258699
06/12/18 05:40 PM
06/12/18 05:40 PM
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
Here is a healthy fox.









-Goofy
Re: red fox question [Re: nyhuntfish] #6291915
08/01/18 12:03 PM
08/01/18 12:03 PM
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Wisconsin, USA
Traps R Us Offline
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on a different note, if you catch and handle mange foxes, is there risk of transmitting it to yourself and/or your pets?

Re: red fox question [Re: Traps R Us] #6291986
08/01/18 02:26 PM
08/01/18 02:26 PM
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Lugnut Offline
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Here is a post I made earlier on this thread. The short answer is there is little chance of infecting yourself or your pets while putting up red fox with beginning stages of mange. I have put up many. Take a few common sense precautions like wearing latex gloves and keeping your dogs out of the fur shed when putting up mangy fox is and you’ll be all right.

Originally Posted By: Lugnut
I live in an area with a high red fox population. I see mange in about 10%-15% of the fox I catch. Mostly it is in the beginning stages affecting the tail, crotch and/or rear legs. I almost always put them up if the mange is not too advanced.

I get a kick out of the folks who recommend building a bonfire and incinerating them or burying them which is hard to do when winter has the ground froze as hard as concrete. I have put up many mangy fox with no issues at all. The relatively few I catch with advanced mange are discarded in an out-of-the-way place on the trap line. I don't think the mites survive very long in freezing conditions once the host is dead.

The percent of mangy fox I catch has been steady over the last 10-15 years so, while I believe it is almost always fatal, I don't think it spreads as easily as some think and it has certainly not caused any population crash in my area.


Eh...wot?

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