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. #6260967
06/16/18 03:20 PM
06/16/18 03:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7,003
Louisiana
Aix sponsa Offline OP
trapper
Aix sponsa  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7,003
Louisiana
.


Whether you think you can or can稚, you池e usually right. - Ford

Winners Focus on Winning - Morris
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261001
06/16/18 04:19 PM
06/16/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,941
Lower Alabama (Daleville)
L
LAtrapper Offline
"Professor"
LAtrapper  Offline
"Professor"
L

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,941
Lower Alabama (Daleville)
Aix sponsa- You are over your PM limit.


Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).

Ron Fry

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261135
06/16/18 10:01 PM
06/16/18 10:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Since Oct. 29, 2010 I have used swim through cage traps of varying sizes from 32 to 48 inches long in widths from 12 to 24 and heights from 10 to 15 inches and simply put, they all worked great, exceeding expectations. Most of the time I use a 12x18x39 or 36, which sort of duplicates a 660, a trap I used with great success for years, but have used larger and smaller cages to fit different runs. Even the 12x12x36 has taken 61 and 63 pound beaver. As a swim through trap, though many have used them on land quite successfully, I have chosen to stay in the water for which they were designed, with and without lure, duplicating what you would do with a 280, 330 or 660 conibear. The 10 inch trap was used for a specific purpose to comply with a law. In at least one state a drowning set has to be checked less frequently than a set with a live beaver. They found many shallow instances that a 12 inch high trap would produce a live beaver so rather than spend time digging out a channel, they used a 10 inch trap under water. If a guy wanted to land set he could get a single door 1080 Havahart and just put lure in the back, not my thing. The swim through traps are great in water.

Like any device that can easily be seen by a beaver, if a beaver is square shy from an encounter with a conibear, he may avoid the trap. In that regard a cage and conibear are similar. If a beaver doesn't hit the cage first or second night, I switch gears and waste no time changing plans. Grab a foothold, Bailey, maybe a Hancock on the dam or perhaps a well hidden snare. I have seen beaver climb out and go fifty feet around a snare more than once too, so even a snare is not 100%.

Conibears usually have an 8 to 10 inch opening for height, so the traps do not have to be taller than 12 inches. I have never, in 8 years experienced refusals as such for size, just a square shy beaver now and then left over from trapping season.

Some things to avoid are generic. I like to set very late in the day as much as possible, just before dark. The beaver are emerging to feed and can often be taken in an hour down to minutes. In that way there if far less chance of encountering a non-target like a turtle, muskrat, otter, fish etc. I know some will say, what if they smell you or see you? If you have castor on the bank they will just about go over you to get to it. I have had to dispatch beaver at close range at dark with rifle and potato hook that were ready to do battle when they smelled the castor on me.

We all come to runs that are too deep for our boots, runs we can't quite reach. A swim through beaver trap with swing bar trigger can literally be thrown in and will never fire, and yet it has the sensitivity to take a rat. I tossed that in becauseI was just asked that question about deep runs that were too deep for boots. You can set almost any run you can find, putting the cage way ahead of a conibear. The trap can sit in soft mud a few inches deep that bleeds up through the wires without causing issues with firing and catching. Cages can be set in small culverts down to 2 feet and 18 inches if the doors are internal. No wiring, no stabilizing, just a drop in. They will also work on concrete, hardpan, cobblestone and bedrock.

Basically, whatever you did with your conibears, you can do with a cage, and then some.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261214
06/17/18 12:54 AM
06/17/18 12:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Im curious how you know that you have never had a refusal in 8 years. I have only been using cages for beaver for 2 years. I run alot of cameras and have seen multiple refusals from smaller cages.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261297
06/17/18 03:35 AM
06/17/18 03:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
It's common to catch a pair of beaver with castor over night, side by side sets, with just two cages in less than 12 hours. Have also cleaned many colonies with large numbers of beaver with cages in a few days, 12 just recently. They just kept coming. There were 3 females, 55, 57 and 61 pounds. If there is a refusal for a cage by an individual beaver at a specific set sometime during the night I wouldn't know about because they are in the cages when I get there. All they have to do is go through one once. Not sure about what you mean by refusals on "smaller cages," or what type of cage or how it was set.

I do sometimes wonder if beaver communicate when live caught. I caught three large beaver one night with traps partially out of water and using castor. Beaver were alive. Other beaver in the colony were then afraid of the location and castor. After seeing 10 beaver cage caught, the last one had to be snared.

A G door will work of course, but you can't really hide them easily, brush must be kept from the doors, they won't go into tight places, will freeze up in cold weather as they can't be set shallow. Try to toss one into a deep run and keep it set. With self contained low profile cages you pile on the brush, logs, whatever you like to hide a trap.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261521
06/17/18 03:01 PM
06/17/18 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Smaller traps as in 12x12. Refuse to go into the trap. If its completely submerged, no problems. I have no problem tossing my G door trap into deep runs, or putting them upside down to block the entire run . Swing doors do fit in more tight places. But I rarely set tight places with a cage . Live beaver definitely attracts more beaver. I have video of caught beaver with 2 more swimming around it.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Jim Comstock] #6261526
06/17/18 03:06 PM
06/17/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Jim Comstock
If there is a refusal for a cage by an individual beaver at a specific set sometime during the night I wouldn't know about because they are in the cages when I get there. All they have to do is go through one once.


How do you know its not a different beaver that ended up in the cage? A refusal is a refusal no matter if he enters at a later time or not.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261604
06/17/18 04:39 PM
06/17/18 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
I have no cameras set up so I could not speculate as to what happens over night and am not really all that concerned with precisely what occurs as long as the end result is success, which it is has been for going on a decade. My experiences have been that the beaver swim through the trap first time and get caught. Bottom line, if you have beavers in the traps when you arrive and there are no more beaver present, the job is done. Can't ask for more. I'm not missing, not having sprung traps, not having refusals. I just set and catch beaver.

The wire trigger, with internal powered door traps were made as a swim through trap, which is where they shine. The refusal aspect is not an issue with what I do, nor do I hear it from the hundreds of others doing pretty much what we are doing. A 12x18x39 trap from the end is not intimidating as the cage wire is only 1/4 inch. When I set the first one in 2010, had no idea if it would work, but the western guys knew. Anyway, first day a rat, then 10 beaver in a row. Should hit the 1,000 mark this summer or fall as we are now at 970.

A couple of years ago I took a rep from a big pest control company with me. Had 3 spots to set. Told him not to come early as I set later in the day as it would take no time. I don't load up with cages either. Many times I set but two, for new colonies. It's not like a load a location and just hope something will connect. Two traps will most often yield two beaver. That day we set but 6 traps, 2,2,2 at 3 locations. Next day the 3 jobs were done, 5 beaver and a turtle.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261637
06/17/18 05:25 PM
06/17/18 05:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
Here, a beaver refusing to go in a cage for 5 minutes can result in a nutria in the cage instead of the beaver coming back in 10 minutes to enter an open cage. You can just about guarantee you will need extra sets just for nutria.

You say you dont know what goes on, yet say you never have refusals. Non targets dont always beat the beaver TO the cage, just entering it.
Thats my point I think you're missing.

Last edited by AirportTrapper; 06/17/18 05:25 PM.

If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261656
06/17/18 06:25 PM
06/17/18 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
I make blind sets, dam break sets, castor mounds , swim through (Like a swim around with a snare). Trail sets, positive sets. You can do all kinds of things with them.

Size, my 14x17x36, or the comstock 12x18.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261684
06/17/18 07:14 PM
06/17/18 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
Comstocks are a great trap for underwater beaver trapping. If set with the doors down, it pushes any grass and sticks down and out of the way. Also like that there are no safety catches to forget on the Comstocks. It's a sturdy trap that doesn't weigh too much.

I'm in Washington. It's a daily check if we set cages as a live set here. If set underwater, it's every third day.
My most consistently productive set is pictured. It's a channel below a dam crossover. This channel is just wide enough and just deep enough for a 12x12 Comstock. It guards the river access from a series of beaver ponds. This set is usually plugged with a flattail on nearly every check. It doesn't look like it but that is a five foot drop over the dam.


Here's the same set looking up-


Downside of cages vs. conis is size, weight and a cage doesn't fit in as many places. A lot of dam crossovers are short, steep and open up into wide pools. Tailor made for a coni or snare but tough to get 3' of straight and level run to get a cage in.

Here's another one set in a dam break. If you have the room and can put the cage in at an angle, it helps keep debris from tripping the trigger.

Last edited by wildflights; 06/17/18 07:30 PM.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261688
06/17/18 07:23 PM
06/17/18 07:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
We all trap somewhere, but not everywhere. Obviously each of us has different variables, situations, conditions to deal with depending on where we are located. In my area I have learned how to work with what I have, beating problems and adapting in such a way so as not have issues with non-target catches, sprung traps, refusals or wasted time and trips. Equipment is only as good as the operator. It takes effort and time to put traps and methods together to form working systems. The cage traps themselves work very well, so it's up to the user to develop a program that addresses the issues that confront them.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261695
06/17/18 07:32 PM
06/17/18 07:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Thanks for sharing the photos. I have not used the 12x12 in a dam break myself but others have, as shown. The best part in all this is seeing how well so many do in experimenting with new and different methods. Dan Gates in Colorado came up with a simple solution to pond setting where there are no narrow spots, only wide open areas. He set a 12x18x39 cage just under water, then piled grass and leaves on top with mud to finish it off. With a little castor on top beaver just swim around and under which of course ends the swimming.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Jim Comstock] #6261812
06/18/18 12:24 AM
06/18/18 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Jason Turner Offline
trapper
Jason Turner  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Jim Comstock
Thanks for sharing the photos. I have not used the 12x12 in a dam break myself but others have, as shown. The best part in all this is seeing how well so many do in experimenting with new and different methods. Dan Gates in Colorado came up with a simple solution to pond setting where there are no narrow spots, only wide open areas. He set a 12x18x39 cage just under water, then piled grass and leaves on top with mud to finish it off. With a little castor on top beaver just swim around and under which of course ends the swimming.



^^^ Sounds like the dam break set with your big cage Jom. Or at least that痴 how I知 doing it葉he cage covers the small break then I use landscape fabric for covering and pile on the mud and debris until it痴 hidden. It just WORKS!

Last edited by Jason Turner; 06/18/18 12:24 AM.

Wildlife Removal, Etc.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6261862
06/18/18 01:46 AM
06/18/18 01:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 246
Washington
Originally Posted By: Aix sponsa

Wildflights, please explain exactly what you mean about setting doors down, and it helping with debris?


The doors on the Comstock stick out a little from the cage when set. Place the trap so that the doors close upwards. It makes the trap (with doors) longer on the bottom and the doors will press down the grass/millfoil/sticks so that they are not in the way when the trap is fired.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262096
06/18/18 01:56 PM
06/18/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:

The wire trigger, with internal powered door traps were made as a swim through trap, which is where they shine. The refusal aspect is not an issue with what I do, nor do I hear it from the hundreds of others doing pretty much what we are doing. A 12x18x39 trap from the end is not intimidating as the cage wire is only 1/4 inch.


That's because you not setting fully exposed traps on land. I have experimented hundreds of times setting traps on land for beaver and otter. I have set them side by side and on runs. It has been the same conclusion as exposed conibears on land. To get around that I found the most effective trap for all locations has been a 14" wide powered long spring guillotine door trap at least 32 " long, with a set door height 16" or more. The trap can be floated as a pair or as a single trap. To catch circling beaver after the first catch. It can be set in a dam set paraelle to the dam and catching the beaver as he comes to
patch the dam, at the new opening. It can just be set in the water paraelle to the dam, or bank, and catch them as they swim down the dam or bank. Set completely under the water on a run. Set right out in the water in 3 to 9" of water baited as a single trap, pair set, or triangle cage trap set for multiples. Set as a castor mound set. Set on land on a run and be very effective.

I experimented with 12 x 12, 12 x 13, 12 x 14, 13 x 14, plus many other sizes to 20" wide lock doored traps. The experimenting was even greater for the guillotine doored traps.


When the trap is set on land the beaver has time to surmise the situation ahead of time. A large beaver at not want to enter if there is a question about size for his body. On a run under water he is in the trap before he knows it.

A swing down door allows to traps to be set side by side in a baited set in 6" of water with lure between them, but unless the trap is at least 14" wide and has 14" of set door height, it will not be as effective. With a swing down door a triangle multiple catch set won,t work well. The door sticks out and won,t allow an effective set.







Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262100
06/18/18 02:08 PM
06/18/18 02:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
A guillotine doored trap has more space in the trap when the door is shut. This allows a larger beaver to be caught and more easily removed than a lock bar doored trap. A beaver up to 65 pounds can be readily caght in a 12x12x34 powered guillotine doored trap. I have been using the same one over 6 years with many catches from 60 to 65lbs. The shorter the trap, the easier it is for an animal to enter. There are others on this forum that have had the same experience.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262438
06/19/18 01:47 AM
06/19/18 01:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Jason Turner Offline
trapper
Jason Turner  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Regarding exposed cages, all other factors considered, are they consistently catching due to the safety factor created by water depth inside the cage AND the height if the door?


Wildlife Removal, Etc.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262708
06/19/18 12:46 PM
06/19/18 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
The most common way to trap beaver since the 60's has been with conibears due to the speed, ease and versatility with which they could be set under water in runs where beaver spend a great deal of time and are most comfortable. When there is any kind of danger or uncertainty where does a beaver go? Not on the bank. What set the swim through beaver traps apart from other cage traps 8 years ago was their ability to be set under water to duplicate the function of a conibear. The wire trigger with the powered doors made that possible. With the new capabilities the swim throughs could be dropped in 8 or 10 inch runs just out of water, in 14 inch water just under water or in very deep runs several feet deep, which made the trap a conibear substitute in a trap with a deeply recessed trigger. Better yet, cages do not require stabilization, a level playing field or wiring, just drop and go.

Pan traps and pan cages have been around forever. Land setting for beaver, something I have not relied on as there has been no real need for it, is a step in the other direction. You could use a 1081 Havahart if land trapping for beaver is your thing. Land setting for beaver is more about forcing, "a duck out of water." Beaver don't walk or fly to arrive at land set, but swim there. I'm happy catch them in the water on the way. I have not burdened myself with figuring out problems with cage heights, widths etc. in land setting. Set in water, the swim through cages work in whatever size you have.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262737
06/19/18 01:37 PM
06/19/18 01:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
trapper
AirportTrapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
Louisiana
It would be nice to be able to have deep enough water at every location to submerge the cage.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Jason Turner] #6262745
06/19/18 01:49 PM
06/19/18 01:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:
Regarding exposed cages, all other factors considered, are they consistently catching due to the safety factor created by water depth inside the cage AND the height if the door?
____________________


Yes, but the traps I use are swim through traps for under water use as well. Just the more open the better to a point to where the best size for the situation comes into play.

The type trigger, how it is formed as to height and coverage for the set. Even the way the way the trigger can be adjusted to fire and how it moves with the type of set and water depth in relation to the size of the animal.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262757
06/19/18 02:00 PM
06/19/18 02:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:
Pan traps and pan cages have been around forever. Land setting for beaver, something I have not relied on as there has been no real need for it, is a step in the other direction. You could use a 1081 Havahart if land trapping for beaver is your thing. Land setting for beaver is more about forcing, "a duck out of water." Beaver don't walk or fly to arrive at land set, but swim there. I'm happy catch them in the water on the way. I have not burdened myself with figuring out problems with cage heights, widths etc. in land setting. Set in water, the swim through cages work in whatever size you have.
_________________________


Some of the places I go the only set is on land. Some states require conibears to be set in water, but no restriction on cages. Snares will allow a catch circle on a manicured pond. Some landowners won,t allow foot holds, even the use of snares. An elderly trapper cold still make sets with a cage on land and not take risk close to the waters edge.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6262772
06/19/18 02:26 PM
06/19/18 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:
The most common way to trap beaver since the 60's has been with conibears due to the speed, ease and versatility with which they could be set under water in runs where beaver spend a great deal of time and are most comfortable. When there is any kind of danger or uncertainty where does a beaver go? Not on the bank. What set the swim through beaver traps apart from other cage traps 8 years ago was their ability to be set under water to duplicate the function of a conibear. The wire trigger with the powered doors made that possible. With the new capabilities the swim throughs could be dropped in 8 or 10 inch runs just out of water, in 14 inch water just under water or in very deep runs several feet deep, which made the trap a conibear substitute in a trap with a deeply recessed trigger. Better yet, cages do not require stabilization, a level playing field or wiring, just drop and go.


Quote:
Better yet, cages do not require stabilization, a level playing field or wiring, just drop and go.


The areas I go sometimes the banks and dams are angled at the water. When I make a set paraellel to the bank to maintain a level trap and ideal opening for one to two traps set side by side, I stake the two traps. Some times the bottom is rocky not allowing the trap to be stable in shallow water, so I stake, place stones, and logs against the trap. Also, sometimes the cross over is set on the dam due to quick drop offs and mucky bottom creating an unsafe situation. Staking the side of the cage and placing leaves and mud in the cage make the beaver more likely to enter and not miss the beaver the same as a well bedded foot hold or cage for bobcat on land.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263141
06/19/18 11:53 PM
06/19/18 11:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Jason Turner Offline
trapper
Jason Turner  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Aix sponsa
Please keep it coming everyone, I appreciate every tidbit of information.
<<<please do!


Wildlife Removal, Etc.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263331
06/20/18 05:04 AM
06/20/18 05:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,233
WA
Vinke Offline
trapper
Vinke  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,233
WA
post said live trap....,,,,,,???????????//
..................









L
whistle whistle whistle whistle


Living life like a dog with a stick


Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263333
06/20/18 05:07 AM
06/20/18 05:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,233
WA
Vinke Offline
trapper
Vinke  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,233
WA
hats off to
Mister Jim and Mister Kirk,,,,,,,,,Two off the best!!!!.........


Living life like a dog with a stick


Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263436
06/20/18 11:52 AM
06/20/18 11:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
It takes me some time to recall the specifics of the successes of so much of what has transpired over the past 8 years taking beaver, otter and muskrats in all conditions, from open water to under ice, muck to bedroom in the powered door cage traps. I now take these cage traps for granted as there is just about nothing that can't be accomplished with them. I don't give it much thought, other than to just go and do it. It's bad enough to forget what others have taught me and worse yet to forget something I came up with.

As mentioned above, some kinds of powered door cage traps, like the 12x18x39 and its cousins, do not require "a level playing field." In fact there are no limitations or requirements for the traps to function. They can be set right side up, upside down and sideways as well as angled front to back and or side to side at any angle, 30, 45, 60 degrees etc. Because they are not square they are essential a trap of two sizes to fit runs large and narrow. They would work vertically as well, but I don't know if there would ever be a need. I have set them in deep runs under boat docks in our Adirondack lakes on bedrock outcroppings with no cover of any kind with positive results. I have placed them on large cobblestones as well, again with no cover under tight boat docks where any other traps with extended doors would be useless. In wide areas where no fencing can be made I simply add a second trap as a "fence." Best part, the sets can be made and placed in the time it takes to set the trap and drop. As far as making trigger adjustments, the powered door traps described are unique in that they have a hook that can be placed and slid along a bar to be used in different positions to make the traps very sensitive on one end and also make them stiff so that the traps can be set in swift current on the other.

Placed in muck, the traps will function even when the muck bleeds up through the cage wire several inches. I often run into deep muck. Placing a trap on the "bottom" I noticed the trap had sunk almost out of sight with just a few inched showing, not even close to enough room for a beaver to enter. About to abandon the location, I noticed the top of the cage was just over a foot from the surface. Bingo, I just set a second cage on top with the top of the trap acting as the deadman with a few weeds to hide it from people. Next trip, 45 pound male.

Having a wide trap is an asset. Otter travel closely together. One trapper in Washington placed an 18 on land where otter were going under a home. Had he not sent the photo of five large male otter caught in one trap at once, I would not have believed it. I have used traps to 24 inches wide and like them for the deep wide runs as no narrowing is necessary, most always upside down, unless there is clean sandy bottoms. It is not uncommon to take a pair of otter swimming together. I also used traps right side up for land setting otter a little over a year ago to take 8 otter in 12 days in a handful of traps on a big lake. In channels others have taken hundreds of otter, not only in the wide traps but also the narrower 12 inch.

A friend of mine gave his son a 12x12 cage. They set it and had an otter the following day. I asked if they used a deadman as the set was in 2 feet of water. They said no. I asked if they used some brush to hide it. They said no. I asked if they had fenced it at all. They said no. I asked, "what did you do?" They said they just dropped the bare trap in and left.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263553
06/20/18 01:41 PM
06/20/18 01:41 PM
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Louisiana
AirportTrapper Offline
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You can get away with alot under the water.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263561
06/20/18 01:46 PM
06/20/18 01:46 PM
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Georgia
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
I experimented with 12 x 12, 12 x 13, 12 x 14, 13 x 14, plus many other sizes to 20" wide lock doored traps. The experimenting was even greater for the guillotine doored traps.



In reference to lock bar doors, the traps I use are different than any other lock bar doored traps that I have seen. At first glance they look the same.

They have two slide bars like others at the top but the traps I use have a gap of 3/8" between the wrapped cage wire and the two slide bars. The door has a less steep angle allowing a longer door. Also, the swinging lock bar stops at 90 degrees instead of 100 degrees or more as other trap door designs.

The wire is wrapped so that the main rib is down and perpendicular to the length of the cage.

These changes allow an 8-10 pound larger beaver to be caught in a 36" long 12" x 12" trap with lock bar doors.This Process creates a ratchet affect as the door falls, locking the door as it goes down not allowing the a large animal to back out , lifting the door. The longer angled door and the 3/8" gap at the top of the cage allows the beaver to lift his tail slightly and slide his tail into the trap when the door closes in a tight situation.

I have found that a steeper angled closed door, without the perpendicular ribs and the 3/8" gap, reduces ability to catch due to these factors.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263599
06/20/18 03:00 PM
06/20/18 03:00 PM
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Georgia
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
This Process creates a ratchet affect as the door falls, locking the door as it goes down not allowing the a large animal to back out , lifting the door. The longer angled door and the 3/8" gap at the top of the cage allows the beaver to lift his tail slightly and slide his tail into the trap when the door closes in a tight situation.


It prevents the lock bar from sliding back for an animal to release himself or back out if the door is not all the way down.

Even if he grabs the lock bar it will catch because it has to be held down all the way through the door opening process unlike the coon escaping in this video from this lock bar door example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec6IPTm486A

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6263605
06/20/18 03:09 PM
06/20/18 03:09 PM
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The design won,t allow the lock bar to be brought all the way back or for the door to be pushed open if the door is not all the way closed.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264234
06/21/18 01:29 PM
06/21/18 01:29 PM
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New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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Bottom line, we have caught beaver as large as anyone in the 12x12, 60+ pounders on more than one occasion. Probably the reason I haven't caught more that size in the narrow trap is because the wider 18 inch trap is easier to place, more spots for them, less fencing and far more "open" appearing than a narrow 12 inch, so I use the wide traps 99% of the time or even some 22 and 24 wide. When offered a 12 our 18 inch wide trap, even though the 12 inch is of course less expensive, most trappers will choose the wider trap as the way to go. We don't have any failures or escapes with the angles and setups we are using. With thousands of these cages in service, if there were issues we would have heard about it. I would have experienced what is implied myself in well over 1,000 catches if there were issues. With 20 pounds of pressure on each door these lock bar traps are made to set easily and fire quickly. Set upside down under water in runs an animal can get no purchase on a solid surface to effect backing. Simply put, the surface with which the beaver may try to gain traction to back out is powered and moving forward to the center of the trap, pushing the beaver right into the trap. A beavers back feet, on a large beaver, will rest on the moving powered door as the trap fires, launching him forward into the trap. Having rugged internal triggering components inside the confines of the box is what allow for setting as you choose, right side up, upside down or sideways, no limitations.

Where there are unreachable runs, I know of no other trap of any type that can quite literally be thrown into deep water and settle to the bottom ready for a catch. What we do was born from necessity, from experiencing obstacles to be overcome while on the line, just like everyone experiences. Previously off limits areas to setting, solid rock, muck and deep water are now all in a days work, not a problem.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264242
06/21/18 01:40 PM
06/21/18 01:40 PM
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Louisiana
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For those deep unreachable runs, I'm throwing my 14x17 Advanced guillotine door into it. I have had zero problems with it. I prefer it set upside down in the deeper runs.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264260
06/21/18 02:23 PM
06/21/18 02:23 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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I have never seen a real advantage to setting the traps I use upside down. The beaver dives to the bottom. If needed, sticks and debris can be laid over the top extending out from the trap to make them dive. The type of trigger and door is the only reason I would be forced to use that option.

As far as throwing a trap in, I just use my rake and drop them in hard to reach runs. The ability of the trigger to adapt to the set is more important to me than being able to throw the trap in. That just tells me the trigger only moves two ways and opens and closes like a house door. A house door makes the user go one way, left or right. If set hanging down go under and set upside down, over. That dramatically limits what sets can be made..

The trigger I use allows the trap to be set with no bait on a run, it can also be baited on the outside on both sides, and the beaver go down either side, left or right going through smelling the lure or just going down the run. On land or in and underwater.

Last edited by Kirk De; 06/21/18 03:38 PM. Reason: clarification
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264280
06/21/18 03:00 PM
06/21/18 03:00 PM
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Louisiana
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I put it upside down so the cage is at top of water to help hold debri on top of cage.


If it makes a track on this earth , I can catch it.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264352
06/21/18 05:13 PM
06/21/18 05:13 PM
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Georgia
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
what are the advantages of setting a trap upside down if the entire trap is submerged anyway?


With a swing bar trigger setting upside down makes the trap appear more open. The doors on the bottom and the protruding up swing bar guide the beaver up through the top of the trap, limiting the amount of force the beaver can put against the door because of the angle of the doors. If the trap were right side up the beavers momentum and body would be down low into the trap and at the bottom of the doors. If the doors don,t lock the beaver can possibly push his way on through the door. The wire floor and the beavers claws allow much leverage for a large strong beaver. With the trap upside down the beaver can,t get the leverage needed to open the door fast enough before he drowns.

The trap being upside down is not needed if the doors lock as they go down.

It really is only a problem on a short trap or a large fast moving beaver that has momentum and size to force the door back up enough to squeeze it open before he drowns. Upside down makes it very hard for any means to fight the trap, especially under water. A wider trap also helps to reduce the chance of the door not locking before the beaver drowns. It makes him want to pull his body in and then fight the trap, especially with a large beaver, causing his demise.

Out of water, upside down makes an uneven floor. Sometimes it matters and some time not.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264477
06/21/18 09:32 PM
06/21/18 09:32 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
Can anyone talk about the different sets they make with cage traps?


Trap Guillotine long spring wire trigger 14x17x32-38".

1. set on a cross over on land
2. crossover at waters edge
3. run under water or shallow water
4. one to two traps parallel in run
5. one or two traps lured between traps parallel to bank
6. Small opening in dam or pipe set perpendicular to opening using one or two traps.
7. one or two traps set in 5-8" of water about 5" apart lured on debris between traps on run or
perpendicular and just out of main channel
8. one or two traps floated with pvc pontoons
9. castor mound set with one or two traps
10. box culvert sets hung or set on floor of culvert
11. trap parallel to sea wall with lure against wall. Can be hung if needed.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264578
06/22/18 12:21 AM
06/22/18 12:21 AM
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Arkansas
Jason Turner Offline
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Arkansas
Back to the exposed cage thing...if a beaver is caught and held for a period of time and is observed by the rest of the colony, will it lead to refusals?


Wildlife Removal, Etc.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264636
06/22/18 02:02 AM
06/22/18 02:02 AM
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Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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New York
Setting upside down is definitely the way to go with lock bar type powered door cage traps. Debris is always kept under the doors, stuff you might not see in deep or dark water. A door firing downward can pick up junk and could get jammed. Firing up through water free of debris provides for clean firing and catch. I don't think I can remember a time in 8 years that I have ever had a door jammed, though a few times a beaver has carried sticks that got caught right along with the beaver.

Guillotine door traps are great, if you don't mind putting up with all the obvious limitations that will force abandonment of a great many locations. Just imagine the difference in trying to squeeze a 30 inch tall monster in a 12 inch slot. Ain't gonna happen. Internal doors, either powered lock bar or bifold make for clean setting, nothing sticking up or out. Placing logs on top of a lock bar trap will all but make the trap disappear. The bottom of the trap can sink into the muck while the top of the trap and log become "one."

I do like 4 way triggers with side to side firing, but have found that after a thousand catches with 660 magnums, the two way triggers Rich Kaspar made work just fine for beaver, otter and rats. The same is also true for the powered door cages.

Jason, I have found that beaver "talk." Got 3 big ones on castor one night, all alive in cages just a bit out of water. Next night nothing. Thought I might be done. Turns out there were 8 more beaver. None of which would return to that location.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6264793
06/22/18 12:13 PM
06/22/18 12:13 PM
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Arkansas
Jason Turner Offline
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Arkansas
That痴 what I have noticed too then Jim. They don稚 like to see one of their own kind in distress. In my area, I can catch multiples in a snare location unless it痴 a female with pups. I may be doing some things incorrectly but that痴 my experience.


Wildlife Removal, Etc.
Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265002
06/22/18 05:54 PM
06/22/18 05:54 PM
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Georgia
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
Jason, I have found that beaver "talk." Got 3 big ones on castor one night, all alive in cages just a bit out of water. Next night nothing. Thought I might be done. Turns out there were 8 more beaver. None of which would return to that location.
_________________________


Just move to another location in the pond, change the lure and presentation.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265007
06/22/18 06:02 PM
06/22/18 06:02 PM
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Georgia
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
Guillotine door traps are great, if you don't mind putting up with all the obvious limitations that will force abandonment of a great many locations. Just imagine the difference in trying to squeeze a 30 inch tall monster in a 12 inch slot.


I use both lock bar doored traps and powered guillotine doored traps. By far my first choice to go in the truck is a powered guillotine doored trap.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265014
06/22/18 06:11 PM
06/22/18 06:11 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
I do like 4 way triggers with side to side firing, but have found that after a thousand catches with 660 magnums, the two way triggers Rich Kaspar made work just fine for beaver, otter and rats. The same is also true for the powered door cages.


I see no problem either with a two way "conibear" type trigger. A two way swing bar trigger has more limitation in baited sets due to what I eluded to in an earlier post.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265025
06/22/18 06:45 PM
06/22/18 06:45 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
Back to the exposed cage thing...if a beaver is caught and held for a period of time and is observed by the rest of the colony, will it lead to refusals?
_________________


Example: This last February I set two conibears on underwater runs on main channel. I set two 17"t x 14" wide guillotine doored traps side by side in 8"of water set to where the beaver would go through the traps to get to the lure. I caught two that night. Made same set back and caught one the second night. The third night I had nothing. Moved traps about 50 yards and set in 6-8" of water side by side 5" apart, with lure between them. Caught one more. Moved traps closer to first two catches and added another trap to make a triangle cage set in 6-8" of water. Caught 3 in the three traps. Made set back at same location and had nothing the next two days. Heavy rain came, had two more. Ended up with none in 330's and 12 in cages when I took traps out.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265204
06/23/18 01:17 AM
06/23/18 01:17 AM
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New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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New York
Anyone who lives in the colder climates, like half the country or more, where ice is a factor, would never have a G door trap to use for beaver and otter. For that matter not so good for cats and the like when snow piles up, thaws and freezes. No good way to cover the doors. I often set runs where ice is present or will form after I set. All that's needed is water just a little deeper than the trap, 14 inches or so. Have to do a lot of looking for a run to accommodate a door sticking up like a flag 30 to 36 inches high in frozen areas. Sure would be "fun" chopping out a run for under ice and find that a 28 inch deep run was too shallow. At times I slide cages into culverts or under boat docks where its a tight squeeze. That would be a big no for the G door. Not difficult to understand that it makes a whole lot of sense to use equipment that it that most versatile. Heck, on a dam break set a powered lock bar trap can freeze in solid, but will fire and catch when set upside down as the trigger is on the bottom and the upside door in the pond in under water. The powered locker traps are not heavy and can be stacked. First time I did it I had an otter on the bottom and a rat on the top.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265570
06/23/18 04:58 PM
06/23/18 04:58 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
I use both lock bar doored traps and powered guillotine doored traps. By far my first choice to go in the truck is a powered guillotine doored trap.


I doubt if there is a handful of trappers, that when given the chance to trap under the ice, would even want to use a cage of any design make or model.

Very few would even want a 200$ cage to be inactive for a long ice over.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265574
06/23/18 05:10 PM
06/23/18 05:10 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
At times I slide cages into culverts or under boat docks where its a tight squeeze. That would be a big no for the G door. Not difficult to understand that it makes a whole lot of sense to use equipment that it that most versatile



What about a trap with a powered guillotine door on one end and a lockbar door on the other. You could choose the door you may need for the set. Would allow easy removal of live or non targeted animals.

Could set flush or not.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265620
06/23/18 07:56 PM
06/23/18 07:56 PM
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
I知 sure the same set could be made using snares or bodygrips and fencing, but a cage trap may be more appropriate at times. There痴 probably a smaller chance of damage to the dock with an enclosed cage, etc. I get that. Would someone mind describing sets they have made under docks using cage traps, how they supported the trap (shelf construction, stapling cage to dock, etc), and how they lured or baited it?
_____________________


I used to go to over 400 set locations every winter for about 13 years before I slowed down. When all the years are included, no matter the methods used, I can count on my hand the locations where beaver activity was under the dock. In all of the situations the water level, in relation to the dock and slope of bank was such that one could not get under the dock. The best location was never under the dock. It was always near or somewhere else in the pond or small lake.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6265737
06/24/18 12:28 AM
06/24/18 12:28 AM
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New York
Jim Comstock Offline
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New York
Love under ice setting, even more so with cages. If I had to choose one time of year and condition it would be December and ice. When the snow is up your crotch and ice is a foot thick or more during the dead of winter I do back off, with cages or conibears. Lots of work. But in the early going when there is 2 to 4 inches the powered door lock bar cages really shine, even in 14 inches of water, don't need much. Ice is the best deadman on the planet. Puts the beaver on the bottom of the runs so they come easy. Two inches of solid ice is all you need. I will even push it to 1-1/2 but move slowly. Once you start opening holes and spot the runs you can drop several cages on the bottom to in essence form a fence on a fairly wide creek, 5 feet plus, except the fence is all traps. And, you don't have to fence a really wide creek in it's entirety, just look for the travel ways. Working from ice is like having a boat to work from, but the boat does not tip or move and it covers the entire waterway. You can skip around everywhere and anywhere with ease and set any location you like.

Holes can be opened quickly with an axe while the traps can be dropped in as fast as you can set them. Got 11 beaver out of one December colony a couple of years ago, with a nice 60 pound female in a shallow tight run by a partial dam. I was done with the colony in three nights. If you set 4 to 6 cages it's not unusual to have a beaver in every one. Just too easy.

Aix, the location under the dock the last time was exactly the same height as the space under the dock, squeezed it in. The beaver were going under and feeding. I set on Adirondack glacial cobblestone from fist sized to basketball mainly. Got both beaver in the set, two nights. What's great about a double door lock bar with low profile is you can set them and slide them into a culvert as far as the potato hook will reach, not a flush set on the outside, but a deep set on the inside, well out of sight of anyone even looking for traps. One lock bar door might be good, but two is better, again more options. Love to push the traps way up inside a small tight culvert, no wires to give it away, no stabilizing and no high stand up G doors to say, "please steal me."

I have set 4 foot deep water on angled bedrock under docks and done the same, catch and go. Always peace of mind with internal doors and triggers, nothing to catch and foul on a stick or piece of brush you missed or drifted in. With internal parts anything and everything you want can be piled on to camo the trap, even a 100 pound log isn't off limits, all without any special considerations or worry.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266652
06/25/18 02:16 PM
06/25/18 02:16 PM
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Georgia
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Kirk De Offline
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Quote:
Quote:
Can anyone talk about the different sets they make with cage traps?


Trap Guillotine long spring wire trigger 14x17x32-38".

1. set on a cross over on land
2. crossover at waters edge
3. run under water or shallow water
4. one to two traps parallel in run
5. one or two traps lured between traps parallel to bank
6. Small opening in dam or pipe set perpendicular to opening using one or two traps.
7. one or two traps set in 5-8" of water about 5" apart lured on debris between traps on run or
perpendicular and just out of main channel
8. one or two traps floated with pvc pontoons
9. castor mound set with one or two traps
10. box culvert sets hung or set on floor of culvert
11. trap parallel to sea wall with lure against wall. Can be hung if needed.
______________


When I make a list using a lockbardoored trap I come up short.

I left out the ability to avoid turtles and non targets is easier in the guillotine doored traps with a 330 conibear hanging trigger.

I say again: I use both guillotine doored traps, traps with guillotine a guillotine door on one end and lock bar door on the other, as well as several models and sizes of lock bar doored traps.

What I have found is that None have the ability to catch as the 14x17x32-38 powered guillotine doored traps have.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266659
06/25/18 02:28 PM
06/25/18 02:28 PM
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Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:
Working from ice is like having a boat to work from, but the boat does not tip or move and it covers the entire waterway. You can skip around everywhere and anywhere with ease and set any location you like.


I picture a trapper pulling a sled with dozens of snares and conibears. I can,t however see the practicality of pulling a sled any distance with the same number of set opportunities with cage traps. The practical aspects are just not there.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266677
06/25/18 03:11 PM
06/25/18 03:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Jim

All of your posts for beaver have made reference to your using traps with lock bar doors in actual catches for beaver. You state all of these problems that could and will arise if using a powered guillotine doored trap.

Have you ever used a long spring (high speed) guillotine doored trap for beaver to actually know for sure what you are saying is accurate.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266777
06/25/18 06:16 PM
06/25/18 06:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Jim Comstock Offline
trapper
Jim Comstock  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
New York
Paramount in the decision making process required for selecting the most effective equipment available is finding those catching devices that are the most versatile, traps that can be set in more ways, positions, situations and at more locations than others. If the traps are more stabile, all the better. For those who are fixated on a trap with a door that fires straight down that may also be shown to be roll over proof or close to it, a powered, bifold door trap, again with internal components and zero clearance, able to be shoved into tight places with flush mount capabilities, nothing sticking up or out, is yet a second device that is far superior to a G door trap.

I know of an incident where a bifold cage got rolled 20 yards down a trail with a cat in it. At first thought to be stolen, that was not the case. My impression when I saw the photo was, "what an ugly cat." No wonder, it was a lion kitten. The female had rolled the cage down the trail trying to free the young one, but no luck. Forty pound cat was in the cage that showed sign of wear, no escape.

I have no allegiance to style or type of device, but to what form dictates superiority.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266782
06/25/18 06:25 PM
06/25/18 06:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:
I know of an incident where a bifold cage got rolled 20 yards down a trail with a cat in it. At first thought to be stolen, that was not the case. My impression when I saw the photo was, "what an ugly cat." No wonder, it was a lion kitten. The female had rolled the cage down the trail trying to free the young one, but no luck. Forty pound cat was in the cage that showed sign of wear, no escape.


Like this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLPoxdm0hwY

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266797
06/25/18 06:46 PM
06/25/18 06:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:
Jim

All of your posts for beaver have made reference to your using traps with lock bar doors in actual catches for beaver. You state all of these problems that could and will arise if using a powered guillotine doored trap.

Have you ever used a long spring (high speed) guillotine doored trap for beaver to actually know for sure what you are saying is accurate.


Quote:
I have no allegiance to style or type of device, but to what form dictates superiority



How would you really know unless you used them?

As far as bi-fold doors for beaver, because the way they fall and close, they are not as fast in a tall trap going through water as a powered longspring guillotine door trap. The folded door also limits trap design more than a guillotine door trap.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266882
06/25/18 09:32 PM
06/25/18 09:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
Quote:
Let痴 talk about using double door, powered door, wire trigger (not pan) fired cage traps for beaver. Tell me about the sets you like to make, when you choose to use them when other options are also available, how you usually lure them, how you secure them, and any additional information about them, including problems and mistakes to avoid. Let痴 try to keep it focused on beavers for this one if possible. Beaver cage traps 101, let痴 go.



The easiest set to make using a guillotine doored trap that is at least 14" wide x 17' tall and 32-38" long is two traps side by side in 6 to 8" of water about 5 inches apart. I wire the traps with 16 ga wire on each end about 5" apart. I take grass or weeds and place between the two traps with lure as a scent set. That way when the first is caught the traps stay in position for the next catch. If catching otter, fish may be caged or on a stringer between the two traps. Block off the ends with a clipped branch stuck in the mud. If there is enough room, and many beaver,set them in the shape of a triangle. Best to be out in the water and place muddy grass on top of traps for eye appeal.

The same set could be set perpendicular with scent just outside of run or right in middle of run with or without scent.

The beaver or otter works the trap at an angle with his tail next to the back side wall(14" wide trap). This makes him spin, bringing his tail into the trap when the door falls. The conibear trigger is formed into a "W". The beaver will hit the trigger with his shoulder or try to push through the loop formed by the trigger. If my trigger was a swing bar trigger the beaver would have to go to the left or right more so not allowing as free of movement in the trap. If a 12" tall trap were used the beaver would be less likely to enter because of water depth. If the trap was 18" tall, with the swing bar on its side, movement through the trap would be restricted. The taller trap also keeps the animal from climbing on and over the top. If the doors were lock bar doors that stuck out on the ends the circling beaver would have further to go around to enter the traps. The lock bar doored traps ends would not match in a triangle set.

Or just set in a run in water, on land, or under water.

Re: BEAVERS: Swim Through Live Traps覧I知 Listening [Re: Aix sponsa] #6266888
06/25/18 09:52 PM
06/25/18 09:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,243
Georgia
What if there were no runs and you only had one trap and what if it was not 16" or more in height, but you have several places where the water out from the bank was 6to 8" deep?

Set the trap out in the water. Place a piece of half inch plywood the length of your trap with two metal rods attached, into the mud about 5 inches from the trap on each side. Fill in the gap with mud and debris. Pile debris and mud on top of trap. Place lure on each side next to the outside wall of the trap 4" on each side of trigger.

Beaver will circle into trap using the trap as a channel.

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