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Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273575
07/06/18 03:04 AM
07/06/18 03:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 713
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline
trapper
rpmartin  Offline
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Posts: 713
S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: wissmiss
If you sent grey fox, wild silver fox and certain grades/sections of red fox - they were not offered on this sale. They are being held for the next sale - February 2019. You will receive a lotting letter on them on the first day of inspection. Which is about 7 months from now, give or take a few weeks.

It is too bad they did this but they did not have enough fresh goods to be put decent lots. Do they didn't.

For future reference, in the current state of the fur market, you should make every effort to get your fur on the middle sale. That is THE major sale of the year. The July sale (and the August sale in 2019) are clean up sales. The time to be buying not selling.


Can you elaborate on why the 2nd sale is better than the 1st. To me it would seem the 1st sale would be where buyers would be restocking inventory and maybe willing to pay more to do so.


Life member,
NRA, NTA, RMEF, Pheasants Forever.
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Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273599
07/06/18 05:05 AM
07/06/18 05:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,066
north Idaho
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wissmiss Online happy OP
trapper
wissmiss  Online Happy OP
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W

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,066
north Idaho
I've attended NAFA sales for about 30 years. Since 1984. And I've seeen a lot of changes over that time in all aspects of how the auctions are organized and run.

My current preference for selling at the 2nd sale is based on the fact that for the past 10 years or so, the first NAFA sale of each season has been a "testing the market" sale. Limited number of species offered and with in those species only certain grades. 2018 was a slight exception to that concept but they still didn't offer all species and all grades. What is offered at a wild fur sale determines what types of buyers show up. For example, if NAFA only offers coyotes, fox and cats, the mink, beaver and Raccoon buyers won't bother showing up.

Yes, there are some wild fur buyers that will be at every sale no matter what is or isn't offered. They most likely live close enough to Toronto that a 7-10 day trip is easy for them to do. And most likely those buyers are there to follow the market for their customers.

But there are a fair number of wild fur buyers that want to be able to buy a little bit of everything and they can only do that at the second sale - when all species and all grades are offered in the auction room. Often times st the first and third sale, misc goods are offered via PT. That means first come, first serve. Which is great for the first buyer in line but not so great for the sellers whose goods are being sold that way. An example - there was a certain grade of a certain species that was primarily bought back at the May sale. Some of those goods sold, in the PT room at the July sale, for less than 25% of the May value. Were those goods worth what they were asking in May? Probably not or they would have sold. Are they worth more than the heavily discounted price they sold for this week? Possibly but we will never go.

Another factor is cost and time involved in attending a NAFA sale. Many of the smaller wild fur buyers are small business owners. They can't afford the expense or the time out of the office to attend every sale. So they pick the sale with the biggest and most diverse offering, which the past few years has been the second sale. It is like grocery shopping - you have a long shopping list and are really stocking up. Do you go to the neighborhood Mom and Pop store or do you go to Wal-mart or a large chain store.

Yes, there have been times when prices at the first sale have been better than at the second sale, but that is the exception rather than the rule. And there is never any guarantee as to what next season will be like. Even with that unknown, I would want my goods on the second sale.

I think I've rambled on a bit here but hopefully I've explained my reason. smile

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273604
07/06/18 05:17 AM
07/06/18 05:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,766
Va
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pass-thru Offline
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Va
So can we expect to see much private treaty movement over the next few days, for all the wild fur that didn't sell today?

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273608
07/06/18 05:24 AM
07/06/18 05:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,066
north Idaho
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wissmiss Online happy OP
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north Idaho
I think there will be some PT movement. Not sure how much. Still a few wild fur species to sell - fisher, sable, Raccoon and lynxcats.

This is a no win situation for NAFA. Hold fairly firm on limits and not sell any goods or sell at whatever is offered and really tick off the shippers. NAFA only has so much cold storage and I'm thinking they are going to have a lot ranch mink to store.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273616
07/06/18 07:03 AM
07/06/18 07:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 30
Manitoba
M
Mbcoyote Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
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Manitoba
The rule of thumb for coyotes around here has always been February auction. The guys here constantly tell me they get better results on it. My uncle told me they always tried to make the February sale. Personally, I too experience better results on coyote in February versus may.
This year I had a 1* grade med color 1-2 clarity coyote sell for $204 CAD in February. best I've ever done in a single skin
In may, I got my best ever grade for a coyote...Select grade dbr color 1-2 clarity. $180 CAD. my first grade coyote also got $180 may sale.I wonder if I hadn't gotten more for the select in February.
that is just my experience with coyote. I have been getting better results with them in the February sale.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273722
07/06/18 12:14 PM
07/06/18 12:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 43
Ottawa, ON, CDN
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ThisIsNotaStep Offline
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Ottawa, ON, CDN
Asked NAFA reps at one of our conventions, you can ship anytime and specify what sale you want them sold at (and I think FHA will do the same). Easy way to clear out the freezer! Caveat, your bags won't be opened/graded till just before the sale you specified.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273809
07/06/18 02:47 PM
07/06/18 02:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 297
kentucky
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redfoxtrap2008 Offline
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kentucky
Better check your account ,lots of pt sales not good. Nafa apparently don't aim to hold fur. It looks like a 40 percent off clearance sale to me.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273849
07/06/18 03:58 PM
07/06/18 03:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,349
NC, Orange Co.
QuietButDeadly Offline
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Muskrat and coyote PT so far are as close to presale as the live auction was for me at least. No low ball yet. Your mileage may vary.


Life Member: NCTA, VTA, NTA, TTFHA
Member: UTK GTA FTA SA NRA NWTF WFSC
Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273863
07/06/18 04:21 PM
07/06/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 413
ky
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Redsleeves Offline
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ky
How can you tell if any of your stuff is saleing pt
Colt

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273878
07/06/18 04:42 PM
07/06/18 04:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,809
MB
J
Jurassic Park Offline
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Joined: Sep 2016
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MB
PT is a sin!


Cold as ice!
Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: ThisIsNotaStep] #6273902
07/06/18 05:28 PM
07/06/18 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,066
north Idaho
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wissmiss Online happy OP
trapper
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north Idaho
Originally Posted By: ThisIsNotaStep
Asked NAFA reps at one of our conventions, you can ship anytime and specify what sale you want them sold at (and I think FHA will do the same). Easy way to clear out the freezer! Caveat, your bags won't be opened/graded till just before the sale you specified.


In theory, that is supposed to be possible. It might work some times but I know of at least 2 instances where it didn't happen. First instance, the furs got sold on the next available sale. Second instance, the bag of beaver was lost for over a year.

If you think about it, around last receiving dates there are multiple trucks pulling into Stoughton and thousands of bags of fur being unloaded. Trying to keep track of one or two individual bags is not top priority.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273927
07/06/18 06:09 PM
07/06/18 06:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 713
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 713
S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: wissmiss
I've attended NAFA sales for about 30 years. Since 1984. And I've seeen a lot of changes over that time in all aspects of how the auctions are organized and run.

My current preference for selling at the 2nd sale is based on the fact that for the past 10 years or so, the first NAFA sale of each season has been a "testing the market" sale. Limited number of species offered and with in those species only certain grades. 2018 was a slight exception to that concept but they still didn't offer all species and all grades. What is offered at a wild fur sale determines what types of buyers show up. For example, if NAFA only offers coyotes, fox and cats, the mink, beaver and Raccoon buyers won't bother showing up.

Yes, there are some wild fur buyers that will be at every sale no matter what is or isn't offered. They most likely live close enough to Toronto that a 7-10 day trip is easy for them to do. And most likely those buyers are there to follow the market for their customers.

But there are a fair number of wild fur buyers that want to be able to buy a little bit of everything and they can only do that at the second sale - when all species and all grades are offered in the auction room. Often times st the first and third sale, misc goods are offered via PT. That means first come, first serve. Which is great for the first buyer in line but not so great for the sellers whose goods are being sold that way. An example - there was a certain grade of a certain species that was primarily bought back at the May sale. Some of those goods sold, in the PT room at the July sale, for less than 25% of the May value. Were those goods worth what they were asking in May? Probably not or they would have sold. Are they worth more than the heavily discounted price they sold for this week? Possibly but we will never go.

Another factor is cost and time involved in attending a NAFA sale. Many of the smaller wild fur buyers are small business owners. They can't afford the expense or the time out of the office to attend every sale. So they pick the sale with the biggest and most diverse offering, which the past few years has been the second sale. It is like grocery shopping - you have a long shopping list and are really stocking up. Do you go to the neighborhood Mom and Pop store or do you go to Wal-mart or a large chain store.

Yes, there have been times when prices at the first sale have been better than at the second sale, but that is the exception rather than the rule. And there is never any guarantee as to what next season will be like. Even with that unknown, I would want my goods on the second sale.

I think I've rambled on a bit here but hopefully I've explained my reason. smile


Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Very interesting and helpful information.


Life member,
NRA, NTA, RMEF, Pheasants Forever.
WTA,TTA,FTA,SA,member


Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273945
07/06/18 06:51 PM
07/06/18 06:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 297
kentucky
R
redfoxtrap2008 Offline
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kentucky
are the raccoon selling today and what time?

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6273947
07/06/18 06:52 PM
07/06/18 06:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,349
NC, Orange Co.
QuietButDeadly Offline
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NC, Orange Co.
They moved the raccoon to Sunday.


Life Member: NCTA, VTA, NTA, TTFHA
Member: UTK GTA FTA SA NRA NWTF WFSC
Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: QuietButDeadly] #6273973
07/06/18 08:24 PM
07/06/18 08:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,329
WI
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handitrapper Offline
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WI
Originally Posted By: QuietButDeadly
They moved the raccoon to Sunday.


That way most of the buyers will have left and they wonít need to spend much time on them. Since there probably not gonna clear many.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6274005
07/06/18 10:03 PM
07/06/18 10:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,527
SE Minn
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Rat Masterson Offline
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SE Minn
They don't have many GOOD coon to clear.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6274007
07/06/18 10:12 PM
07/06/18 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 442
middle tennessee
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Tommie Offline
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Posts: 442
middle tennessee
Are cats still selling on Saturday?

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: Tommie] #6274181
07/07/18 02:25 AM
07/07/18 02:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 281
Northern Maine
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jwood Offline
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Northern Maine
Originally Posted By: Tommie
Are cats still selling on Saturday?


Offered, yes. Selling? Probably not many in the auction. Other than the better coyotes, this one seems to be a bloodbath.

Wissmiss - great points on the 2nd sale of the season. To me, it's actually the first 'real' sale, where all fur is offered. Seems like the selling season has been pushed back quite a bit over the years as the fur market has struggled. When I first started trapping 15+ years ago I believe there was at least one decent sale before the 1st of the year, and the cleanup was in May, right??

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6274318
07/07/18 12:34 PM
07/07/18 12:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,329
WI
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handitrapper Offline
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WI
Seems That second sale has gotten pushed back later and later every year. Used to be in March. Thatís when fur was worth something though. I havenít shipped to them for about 6 years now. FHA or the Rat Wagon.

Re: NAFA wild fur auction [Re: wissmiss] #6274386
07/07/18 03:18 PM
07/07/18 03:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 297
kentucky
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redfoxtrap2008 Offline
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kentucky
anyone know what time the cats go

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