Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: 080808]
#6286874
07/25/18 05:06 PM
07/25/18 05:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269 Indiana
brianmall
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Brian, good thoughts. Do you have to consider planning, zoning or other tree hugger opposition? Pl Yes on all Permits are all one time deals per location most being federal in nature. State and county is good to go. I have been told I can operate in small scale at house (wood broiler size) to start out with no fuss. Not even a building permit required if I put it in a building. 3 to 8 permits needed for various components of plan from burn through steam to electric and eco. Ranging from 10 to 35k each.
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: jbyrd63]
#6286876
07/25/18 05:11 PM
07/25/18 05:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269 Indiana
brianmall
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You will need gov subsidies to make a profit. The cities that do it have a customer base already inplace and they don't make anything except from the monies they rake in from pollution control programs. I'm already profiting. Just burning would save me 40k a year I dump fees right now. I could use steam to operate my house and other structures saving more in bills. Generate electricity for sale for additional profit. Sort metal out in burner clean out for scrap. Become less dependent on land fill making more competitive in pricing which could result in me taking over area completely.
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: hippie]
#6286877
07/25/18 05:11 PM
07/25/18 05:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269 Indiana
brianmall
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Hire someone at the get-go to deal with the state and federal gov't.
Wife and i both deal with the state and that alone is a full time position. Get-go?
Last edited by brianmall; 07/25/18 05:12 PM.
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: charles]
#6286880
07/25/18 05:14 PM
07/25/18 05:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269 Indiana
brianmall
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I think Ames Iowa did it in the 70s.
I think the smoke polution will be a challenge. If it is feasable, Waste Management would do it.
No smoke! Clean burn!! Canada just bought 350 of the units I'm looking at to ship to all the hard to get to spots to burn their waste.
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: mutt]
#6286881
07/25/18 05:15 PM
07/25/18 05:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269 Indiana
brianmall
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I don't know details, but the power plant I work at has a contract for selling a certain amount of electricity to the municipality at a set rate for an extended amount of time. Another plant just north closed because they could not get a contract for selling their power. Something about just selling on the open market was not cost effective. Just meaning there might be a lot more to the distribution end of your project not just a produce the power and someone will come buy it kind of thing. Also if you are looking big scale I would guess you will need a switch yard which at least here is owned and operated by the municipality so more than just building the plant, you might need the municipality to provide somewhere to go with the power. I own a trash pick up biz. Plan is to cut out all middle men. Become landfill without the land fill!
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: brianmall]
#6286910
07/25/18 06:36 PM
07/25/18 06:36 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 24 SE MN
Buck19
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I’m a operator at a combined heat and power plant, sounds like a concept that might fit, probably not anything new to you,but. We produce on avg. 50% of our campus electrical usage per year during the winter months 90+%. We have 3 small steam turbines producing 100,65,45 kWh. We can run up to all 3 based on steam load. Profit is in the savings we don’t actively sell power. If I usderstand correctly our utility is required to buy our excess but it is extremely discounted. We also heat a hospital, convent and university. Basically 130psi supply, exhaust at 25 to 35psi which is then sent out to heat the buildings. For example our smallest TG takes 3500pph of load to produce rated power. We use PRVs for the balance of the heating load. Have you looked at a absorption unit, using steam to produce chilled water for cooling? What type of water source do you have? Pretreatment requirements? Secondary fuel source? Here Pressure vessels require annual inspections, insurance cost? The state of MN requires licensed operators not sure about your state. On the other end of the system, how do you heat your business now will you have to retro. fit everything? Steam Converters to produce hot water for heat, also can use steam for domestic hot water. Cloths dryers? Sterilization? Pay back is something you should look for and calculate as you design your system, somethings are just not worth it. Sounds like a fun project.
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: Buck19]
#6286919
07/25/18 06:58 PM
07/25/18 06:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269 Indiana
brianmall
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OP
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Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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I’m a operator at a combined heat and power plant, sounds like a concept that might fit, probably not anything new to you,but. We produce on avg. 50% of our campus electrical usage per year during the winter months 90+%. We have 3 small steam turbines producing 100,65,45 kWh. We can run up to all 3 based on steam load. Profit is in the savings we don’t actively sell power. If I usderstand correctly our utility is required to buy our excess but it is extremely discounted. We also heat a hospital, convent and university. Basically 130psi supply, exhaust at 25 to 35psi which is then sent out to heat the buildings. For example our smallest TG takes 3500pph of load to produce rated power. We use PRVs for the balance of the heating load. Have you looked at a absorption unit, using steam to produce chilled water for cooling? What type of water source do you have? Pretreatment requirements? Secondary fuel source? Here Pressure vessels require annual inspections, insurance cost? The state of MN requires licensed operators not sure about your state. On the other end of the system, how do you heat your business now will you have to retro. fit everything? Steam Converters to produce hot water for heat, also can use steam for domestic hot water. Cloths dryers? Sterilization? Pay back is something you should look for and calculate as you design your system, somethings are just not worth it. Sounds like a fun project. Bingo TMAN comes through once again. Your the one I'm looking for I think. I'm in the thought stage. Your right. Profit is in the "savings". From what I can see anyway. But there may be a little to be had from sale of stea, electricity, etc... I should be able to turn a small profit by becoming an outlet for other waste pick up companies? Charge them per ton etc... I will pick your mind if you don't mind?
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: brianmall]
#6286934
07/25/18 07:35 PM
07/25/18 07:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,735 Williamsport, Pa.
jk
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Williamsport, Pa.
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Good luck to you. It sounds like T-man came through for you with buck 19. I wish you the best, it might take years but go for it or you will always regret not trying......jk
Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. What's supposed to be ain't always is. Hopper Hunter
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Re: Fire,steam,electric folks
[Re: OhioBoy]
#6287631
07/26/18 07:58 PM
07/26/18 07:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269 Indiana
brianmall
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Indiana
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Two things:
1) You mentioned an incinerator and Rogers Engineering is in Cambridge City Indiana and designs and makes furnaces and incinerators to do whatever you want. They aren't cheap.
2) The dairy cattle farm in Fair Oaks Indiana reclaims cow manure and is producing gas. Biogas recovery I believe its called. Might be worth taking the tour there. Thank you I'll check them out. My guy is in Kentucky. 40k for a unit that will don2 tons at a time.
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