Re: Socialism
[Re: Mike in A-town]
#6294185
08/04/18 12:32 PM
08/04/18 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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Donner is there any other industry where you can NOT pay and still receive products or services?
(I'm not picking on you, but you brought up a good point of how we protect from that)
Mike Not to my knowledge or at least nothing that immediately comes to mind. I do think we have to be aware of the unique problems health care has when we attempt to compare it to other goods and services though.
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Re: Socialism
[Re: AntiGov]
#6294186
08/04/18 12:35 PM
08/04/18 12:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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As far as the Epi-Pen debacle... I agree. It's ridiculous. The epinephrine can't be patented, only the delivery mechanism can.
If someone can't develop a delivery device that doesn't infringe, but can compete, with what is already on the market we have some serious problems ahead of us.
If someone could invent a competitive product and market it at a much lower cost they would be a millionaire overnight.
Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Mike in A-town]
#6294189
08/04/18 12:40 PM
08/04/18 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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As far as the Epi-Pen debacle... I agree. It's ridiculous. The epinephrine can't be patented, only the delivery mechanism can.
If someone can't develop a delivery device that doesn't infringe, but can compete, with what is already on the market we have some serious problems ahead of us.
If someone could invent a competitive product and market it at a much lower cost they would be a millionaire overnight.
Mike I freely admit I do not have all the answers and I would be happy to change my views if someone had a better way to lower cost. As of now health insurance is becoming the new "scrip", people are tied to their jobs because losing that job or starting your own business would mean losing your insurances. As Americans we love and promote freedom but if you are only left with the freedom to make bad decisions that being quit your job and lose your insurance or stay in a job you hate to keep your family protected then we need to reevaluate what is going on because being stuck in jobs that offer insurance is not freedom.
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Re: Socialism
[Re: virgil1972]
#6294190
08/04/18 12:42 PM
08/04/18 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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If you want to see how single payer works look at the VA hospitals. Look at how it is in Canada with the wait times. Or look at Japan who has first rate health care and has been single payer since the 60s.
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6294191
08/04/18 12:42 PM
08/04/18 12:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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Donner is there any other industry where you can NOT pay and still receive products or services?
(I'm not picking on you, but you brought up a good point of how we protect from that)
Mike Not to my knowledge or at least nothing that immediately comes to mind. I do think we have to be aware of the unique problems health care has when we attempt to compare it to other goods and services though. What does the law state as far as providing health care to someone regardless of ability to pay? Common sense would tell me that it only applies to situations of immediate danger to life and health. I don't have an issue with that. But there must be some incentive for the person who receives that care to provide some sort of compensation for services rendered. As far as I know, turning any outstanding bills over for collection is the only choice most caregivers have. Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Mike in A-town]
#6294195
08/04/18 12:48 PM
08/04/18 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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What does the law state as far as providing health care to someone regardless of ability to pay? Common sense would tell me that it only applies to situations of immediate danger to life and health.
I don't have an issue with that.
Mike Hospitals must stabilize patients with life or limb threatening injuries regardless of ability to pay at the present.
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6294198
08/04/18 12:58 PM
08/04/18 12:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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If you want to see how single payer works look at the VA hospitals. Look at how it is in Canada with the wait times. Or look at Japan who has first rate health care and has been single payer since the 60s. I would add that Japanese culture plays a great amount into any success they have with their system. There are always exceptions. But as a rule, personal accountability is a big deal amongst the Japanese people. Cultural norms can't be excluded as a variable. Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6294200
08/04/18 01:02 PM
08/04/18 01:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
"Chippendale Trapper"
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"Chippendale Trapper"
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
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I bet you lunch he will say those evil pill companies that should be doing research for free. Have I given you the impression that I am a dye in the wool commie who drank the kool aid and now spews the official talking points? Or do I seem to be presenting what I know/believe in good faith asking for others opinions in a effort to gain knowledge to either change or solidify my opinion? I would say mostly the latter, my apologies sir.
-Goofy-
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6294202
08/04/18 01:04 PM
08/04/18 01:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
"Chippendale Trapper"
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"Chippendale Trapper"
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Donner is there any other industry where you can NOT pay and still receive products or services?
(I'm not picking on you, but you brought up a good point of how we protect from that)
Mike Not to my knowledge or at least nothing that immediately comes to mind. I do think we have to be aware of the unique problems health care has when we attempt to compare it to other goods and services though. Credit card companies come to mind. They are shafted all the time and absorb that sting by charging low scorers higher interest rates.
-Goofy-
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Mike in A-town]
#6294204
08/04/18 01:08 PM
08/04/18 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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I would add that Japanese culture plays a great amount into any success they have with their system.
There are always exceptions. But as a rule, personal accountability is a big deal amongst the Japanese people.
Cultural norms can't be excluded as a variable.
Mike This is undoubtedly true, this is also why I said I would prefer a single payer system ran by the individual states as we have different politics etc throughout the country and keeping things "closer to home" would help alleviate tension and allow alterations within each system that better suited the populace.
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Re: Socialism
[Re: AntiGov]
#6294205
08/04/18 01:10 PM
08/04/18 01:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
"Chippendale Trapper"
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"Chippendale Trapper"
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Can't really do that as some states would end up with all the givers and others all the takers and the fed would have to bail the taker states out.
Poor city folks rarely physically move out of their living situation. These are the folks using the healthcare system more often than those taking care of themselves because they have much to live for.
Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 08/04/18 01:15 PM.
-Goofy-
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Re: Socialism
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6294214
08/04/18 01:22 PM
08/04/18 01:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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I would add that Japanese culture plays a great amount into any success they have with their system.
There are always exceptions. But as a rule, personal accountability is a big deal amongst the Japanese people.
Cultural norms can't be excluded as a variable.
Mike This is undoubtedly true, this is also why I said I would prefer a single payer system ran by the individual states as we have different politics etc throughout the country and keeping things "closer to home" would help alleviate tension and allow alterations within each system that better suited the populace. Japanese children tend to be grounded in reality from an early age... https://youtu.be/hL5mKE4e4uUMike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: Socialism
[Re: AntiGov]
#6295632
08/06/18 11:58 AM
08/06/18 11:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204 Armpit, ak
Dirt
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Armpit, ak
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How many of you anti-socialist sentenced your children to a free government operated (communism) school?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Socialism
[Re: AntiGov]
#6295703
08/06/18 01:40 PM
08/06/18 01:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204 Armpit, ak
Dirt
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Problem is the modern socialist utopias are massively debt ridden,which leads to insane economic policies to keep their ships from sinking.
Who is John Galt?
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