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Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6336307
09/29/18 05:25 PM
09/29/18 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,615
sometimes PA sometimes ME
E
ebsurveyor Offline
trapper
ebsurveyor  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,615
sometimes PA sometimes ME

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6337066
09/30/18 04:44 PM
09/30/18 04:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
I
IWM Offline
trapper
IWM  Offline
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I

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
As you can tell by my posts, I am over-passionate about #44s and am receiving more email & phone questions than I have time to handle right now.
I have studied #44s for many years because they are the first officially designated Newhouse Gov't trap and I limit my discussions to Gov't/official research traps.
Two questions I am getting repeatedly are:
1) why do so many pat date 44s have split jaw posts?
2) why don't pre-pat date 44s have factory Gov't stamping if some went to Gov't agencies?

An abbreviated answer for both is that until 1914, the only official organized predator control was by the US Forest Service (1905-1914). Trap/equipment orders were sparse & sporadic do to lack of primary funding. In 1914, Congress charged the Biological Survey with all official animal damage control and followed with a $125,000 appropriation in 1915-16 (equivalent to $3,051,040 in 2018) that jump-started official purchases. At the same time, the US was about to enter WW1 and conservation of cast parts began; thus resulting in split posts fashioned from sheet metal instead. Because early Gov't trappers had been introduced to the pre-pat date #44s, and a "designated Gov't issue trap" was more easily requisitioned by newly funded Agencies; a spike in orders occurred for pat date #44s during split jaw post period (1916-1918). Many of these were converted back to cast jaw posts afterwards by trappers unhappy with integrety of split posts.
When figuring out production forensics on Gov't traps, it ALWAYS correlates to Agency authority (via correspondence) and subsequent funding. Until Newhouse realized the significance of Gov't purchases after 1915-16, they couldn't justify investing in personalized press & stamp tooling. With onset of Gov't purchase orders and establishment of Agency rules concerning proof of ownership from origin (factory), they initiated "property of" stamping of trap parts before assembly. After 1925, ATC greatly expanded this stamping process on most Gov't traps, but the production of #44s dwindled about the same time as OC-ATC transition.

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6337069
09/30/18 04:50 PM
09/30/18 04:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,085
MO
cfowler Offline
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cfowler  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,085
MO
I don't collect traps or own a #44, but this has been a very interesting thread.


I trap for fun. I skin 'em for the money!
Grinners For Life-Lifetime Member, MO Chapter, Den #1
~You Grin, You're In~
Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: cfowler] #6337085
09/30/18 05:07 PM
09/30/18 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 447
Minnesota
4
4zebra61 Offline
trapper
4zebra61  Offline
trapper
4

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 447
Minnesota
Great information !


MTA member
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Winchester Arms Collector’s Assn.
Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6337116
09/30/18 05:52 PM
09/30/18 05:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
I
IWM Offline
trapper
IWM  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
cfowler,

You are probably better off. Trap collecting is a disease for which there is no cure, and one most likely takes it to his grave.

I always did say "the ultimate catch of any trap is a collector"

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6337371
10/01/18 12:20 AM
10/01/18 12:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 624
S.W. Oregon,USA
S
snakecollector Offline
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snakecollector  Offline
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S

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 624
S.W. Oregon,USA
IWM, Thank you for sharing the information about government traps. It is great that you have collected that information and are willing to share it.

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: snakecollector] #6337435
10/01/18 06:49 AM
10/01/18 06:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 447
Minnesota
4
4zebra61 Offline
trapper
4zebra61  Offline
trapper
4

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 447
Minnesota
Mods, this is some great information, is there anywhere in the archives for it?


MTA member
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Winchester Arms Collector’s Assn.
Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6337490
10/01/18 08:28 AM
10/01/18 08:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
M
MChewk Offline
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MChewk  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
Thanks IWM great info...still puzzles me... why put a high quality swivel like that on these traps (and others) but still manufacture traps with the end ring? Why not on the chain end and/or throughout the chain? Tying/wiring off to a stake or drag is better?

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6337579
10/01/18 10:37 AM
10/01/18 10:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
I
IWM Offline
trapper
IWM  Offline
trapper
I

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
MChewk,

It is well established that you could order the #44 with or without chain ring. A factory production supervisor once told me that a chain without ring was percieved by many as incomplete, and that the manufacturer was better off letting buyer modify chain set-ups.
I know most #44s I have found in Texas have 6 ft flatlink, also swiveled in middle, with a drag. Many Gov't traps ordered by Texas had the same 6 ft chain set up including #14 and #4.5.
One thing is certain; Newhouse and Onieda Newhouse (ATC) were in the trap business to make money...custom chain set ups were very common in substantial Gov't orders.

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #6337750
10/01/18 03:00 PM
10/01/18 03:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
M
MChewk Offline
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MChewk  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
Thanks IWM....guess those old wolfers knew their business well.

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8124863
04/19/24 01:09 PM
04/19/24 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
M
MChewk Offline
trapper
MChewk  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
IVM, how's that book coming along?

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8125583
04/20/24 02:35 PM
04/20/24 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
I
IWM Offline
trapper
IWM  Offline
trapper
I

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
Slow going on the book.

2 roadblocks in recent months:

1) since trappers have learned about my book, I am getting a flood of new information on gov't funded projects & equipment...much from retired wolf team members who have a great deal of first-hand information to contribute. Additionally, we have lost a couple of key characters I counted on for documentation this year and am in the process of following up with company employees and/or family members. Each time I learn new credible information, I have to rewrite that chapter (especially Mech jaws, ATC in later years, and LPC).

2) copywrite laws are preventing me from using many of my supporting photos. I have a large accumulation of historic, official UPI and local newspaper photos that I have been warned not to use by legal departments in several national publishing conglomerates. Also, you would not believe the number of surviving family members that don't want photos given to me by deceased contributors published. Many of these actual photos supply visual proof of my preceding text, so I have had to circumnavigate reference to these pics in my writings. Anyone who investigates copywrite infringement of photos will be shocked at their prohibitive use for many years...my attorneys conclude even more restrictive than with most written material.

Majority of restrictions apply to "for profit" commercial publications and may be waivered (with permission) when used in educational formats. We have been investigating all possible avenues including electronic versions available through club memberships.

I'll keep plugging away at the book and hopefully have a presentation available soon.

Thanks for asking,
Dan

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8125700
04/20/24 06:37 PM
04/20/24 06:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
M
MChewk Offline
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MChewk  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
Wow! Had no idea.
Question about wolf trapping and traps...what is your knowledge/experience about the older Oneida made # 14 Newhouse traps having the clevis rivet failing?
I remember reading a post from Alaskan/Canadian forums about the rivet opening up?? I believe the Oneida made #14 traps had the split in that clevis rivet if I am not mistaken....
Thanks ahead of time,
Mike

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: MChewk] #8126142
04/21/24 01:42 PM
04/21/24 01:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
I
IWM Offline
trapper
IWM  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
Texas USA
I don't have any info on clevis failure on #14s.

Most all traps used by wolfers that I have seen or obtained have been altered to strengthen weak points according to individual trappers opinions...quite a few variations in modifications and opinions!

Same with lion trappers.

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8126540
04/22/24 08:34 AM
04/22/24 08:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
M
MChewk Offline
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MChewk  Offline
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M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
Thanks...not clevis failure per say but rivet connected to clevis...I believe the older #14s had a split in the rivet...possibly for positioning on to clevis...then crimped shut?

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8130488
04/29/24 01:36 PM
04/29/24 01:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 344
NW Wisconsin
M
Muskrat Love Offline
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Muskrat Love  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 344
NW Wisconsin
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

This should work


"I'm an old dog, and these are all new tricks!"
Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8131349
05/01/24 05:17 AM
05/01/24 05:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,082
Central Texas - Erath- Real Co...
Ol' Smoke Offline
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Ol' Smoke  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,082
Central Texas - Erath- Real Co...
I like the cold-shut, only seen a couple.


---- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE----Bye, Bye Miss American Pie----
Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8131419
05/01/24 09:02 AM
05/01/24 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
M
MChewk Offline
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MChewk  Offline
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M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,000
Northern Illinois
Great looking traps muskrat love! It looks like the trap manufacturers were testing to see what attachments would work best?

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8137387
05/11/24 02:20 AM
05/11/24 02:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,437
saskatchewan/canada
lots of mink Offline
trapper
lots of mink  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,437
saskatchewan/canada

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Anyone ever see this chain before?

Re: more on #44 Newhouse [Re: mike mc murray] #8137912
05/12/24 06:48 AM
05/12/24 06:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 114
Grand Rapids MN, 55744 itasca ...
B
Bumpy Offline
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Bumpy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 114
Grand Rapids MN, 55744 itasca ...
How long is it, you have a better picture of the ring?

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