and also for the ones who may be following along that might be looking for real answers

LOL. Point taken. Go back and look at Danny's posts concerning anything to do with God and you will find he is sincere. Sincerely anti-God. These kind of posts are a magnet to him. He just cannot pass them up.

What you are asking is unknown to us as we do not KNOW with certainty the hearts of "men" but God does.

For the "why does God allow things to happen" folks.

My son recently had this discussion with his atheist roommate at college.

His friend asked the same question and before they could really get in debate about it the conversation turns to people they both know when his roommate says he noticed that people that have struggles appear to have more character than those that have experienced the easy life. lol

Really, would we want to worship a God that doesn't punish evil? I don't think so. When we see the horrible things some people have done to others we cry out to God for justice. In our hearts, we all want God to punish the evil that we see in this world.

I think what brianmall and this pastor mean is that God's justice demands punishment for evil. And God is to be praised for his justice. So even though WE can be forgiven, our sins cannot. Even if I am forgiven, there is still a penalty that must be paid for all the evil I have done and continue to do.

If God doesn't require punishment for evil, then why did Jesus need to suffer and die on the cross? Why couldn't God just magically forgive and forget all the sins of His children? He cannot do so because His holy nature will not allow it. God is holy, just, and his nature demands that evil be punished.

The only reason we can be forgiven is because Jesus suffered the punishment for the real, actual, and particular sins of God's people. The sins of God's people do not go unpunished - it is Jesus that accepted the punishment for us. He took my sins upon himself and gave me his perfect righteousness in exchange. That's the good news. My sins are forgiven of me, but only because God the Father poured out His wrath and punishment for my wickedness upon His only son who, out of obedience to his father, accepted the penalty for me.


I love the lyrics of this hymn by John Newton called "Let us Love and Sing and Wonder"

Let us wonder. Grace and justice
Join and point to mercy's store
When through grace in Christ our trust is
Justice smiles and asks no more


Just think about that! God's perfect demand for holy justice looks at me, sees the blood of Jesus, smiles, and asks no more! That is cause to sing and wonder. Grace and Justice joined together and pointing to God's immense love. What a beautiful God!


“Love was compressed for all history in that lonely figure on the cross, who said that he could call down angels at any moment on a rescue mission, but chose not to – because of us. At Calvary, God accepted his own unbreakable terms of justice.” --Philip Yancey



Also, Christians believe it is possible for the most wicked of men to be saved, but only because of the unsurpassing greatness of the Savior. Our mortal minds would consider the wickedness of some monsters to be so vile that they are beyond forgiveness. But, in thinking so, we underestimate the power of the sacrifice of the infinite and immortal God. Plus, I think the huge difference we see between the evil people and the "good" people in this world is really not so great when viewed from the perspective of a perfect and holy, holy, holy God. On the spectrum of good versus evil, if Adolf Hitler is the pinnacle of evil, and a perfect God is on the other end of the spectrum, Mother Theresa would still be about a half-inch away from Hitler and a trillion light away years from God.

I am a great sinner. But I have a great Saviour!

When you consider all that God sees as evil then yes, I'm glad that His punishment for it is accompanied by mercy.

Punishment on Christ. Mercy for me.

I recently preached on this very subject to our church which is a non-denominational congregation ministered to by pastors supported by the Evangelical Free Church of America (EFCA). I brought the word from the Old Testament, Joel Chapter 3, text "The Nations will be Judged".

God has spoken to His people through;
Moses
The Law
Kings
Prophets
His Son Jesus Christ

He now uses the bride of Christ, the Church, to speak to people.
Until Jesus returns

I think part of God's call for us to follow him is to join together with His body. We are called to be part of a Christian community. It is clear that it is through his Church (that is, the invisible church, His body) that Christ administers his grace to his people. God has given us the gifts of pastors, shepherds, and teachers. He has given us the opportunity to experience the joy of serving others in his church. He has called us to support and encourage our brothers and sisters. He has commanded us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. All that is pretty clear from the Bible, if you believe it.

I think we should not think about just trying to meet the minimum requirements to qualify as a "good Christian". We should seek to grow in grace by taking advantage of the gifts God has given his people. We should stop focusing on what we can get out of a church and what it does for us, and focus more on how we can serve God and others in His church. It's about something much bigger than ourselves.

Let's get one thing straight, you can not be justified by doing good deeds. But what you believe will determine to a great extent, who you become and what you do. If Hitler truly believed he would not have done what he did.

When we all bite the bullet It's over and you won't have to worry about If your going to get forgiven or not.
Dead Is dead baby.

That's the thing about God's grace and mercy. We don't deserve it, we don't earn and certainly not worthy of it. But yet He allows or minds and hearts to be transformed by the blood.

I'm reminded of Matthew 15:8 "these people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor me with their lips, But their heart is far from me".

You can be worse than Hitler and yet God can transform one's heart and mind. I've seen and know many people completely transformed from their former lifestyle, including hardcore gangsters. Only the Triune God knows Hitlers heart at the end.

Surely, goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.

Yeah but then we get labeled Born Again Christians.

Something so easy to believe, not always easy to walk the walk, but some people brush it aside like believing is for the weak.

Most folks carry insurance as do I. Well this is my insurance for after I pass.

Eric, none of us walk the perfect line in the eye's of our creator and never will.But we can give thanks and ask for forgiveness for our sins.I still cannot find anything bad in the Bible.It is very clear and straight forward,not meant to change the text to fit what we want or our lifestyles.

Your exactly right, Scott.

I think so.

Or a Holy Roller. I wish he would just get out of my face. It gets boring.

Jarhead

I am a Holy Roller,proud to be an American.