Hello. Number one: I have never shot a muzzleloader. I am eventually going to take a buck in MO with every legal method. I have a CVA Optima V2 muzzleloader pistol on the way. It is 50 caliber and when I get a buck with it I can check off muzzleloader and pistol. ALL helpful comments and advice are appreciated. Based on searches it looks like 70-80 grain Alliant Black MZ or Blackhorn 209 is the best. 200-250 Hornady SST or TC Shockwave. Federal 209A primers. Maybe a 50+ a 30 gr 777 pellet? Any thoughts about the just mentioned? Any special cleaning kit, products, etc. I may not have from general firearm cleaning? I will hunt a lot and am planning to take out the breach plug and push out the bullet and powder after every hunt. Acceptable? Any and all other thoughts and comments appreciated. Thank you for your time.

I think you will like the optima. I have one (not a hand gun) that's around 10 years old and still shoots great.


Yes you can push out your load if you want but I'm not sure tha it's nessary on a daily basis. As long as it was clean when you loaded it I wouldn't be afraid to hunt multiple days with it unless you were in real humid conditions. I've never had a misfire with my optima and I've left it loaded for a month before. Not recommending you do that but just saying I've done it before.

I've thought several times about buying a CVA hand gun but just can't justify replacing a perfectly good rifle. I will be following your progress with yours as I may end up buying one someday though.

Don't remove the breach plug and push out the power and bullet after each hunt. That would serve no purpose but to put unnecessary wear on your gun. I have been hunting with my TC omega for over 13 years and have removed my breach plug once, to remove a jammed jag. Just remove the cap and it's considered unloaded under the law of most states if not all.


That said, I would trade in the cva for a TC Omega....outstanding muzzleloader. I shoot 3 pellets of 777 and 250 grain shockwave and it's the most accurate gun I have out to 250 yards.

my first and likely my only bp pistol deer. Old army .44 pieta revolver. was loaded about a week and a half before I got a shot. 35 grains of pyrodex and a 200 grain conical cast with a lee mold. no clue what kind of pistol your even talking about. I shot mine all summer. got close and shot careful. I was looking for this years fawn but this little guy showed up. he was tender enough and gave me my shot. made cured and smoked hams with it.

I also have an Optima V2. I use 150 grains of 777 and a 250 grain Hornaday SST. I leave it loaded for the entire 1 month season, just take out the primer at the end of the day. When season closes, I unload and give it a real good cleaning. I stick the barrel in a 5 gallon bucket full of hot soapy water. Take the rod and a patch and just run up and down, pulling soapy water up into the barrel. Run some patches thru to dry out and give it a light coat of oil, looks like new when done.

the very first thing you do is clean it to get the oil from shipping out of the barrel

the frame and action you can use regular oil on .

you can use hot water and dish soap on the barrel.

then you lube the barrel with bore butter , wonder lube or some other natural lube . black powder and black powder substitutes make a hard fouling out of combustion in the presence of mineral oil olive oil will work Thompson's bore butter is just that olive oil and bee's wax to make it not run all over and stay where you put it.

with modern in lines rifles and pistols you DO remove the breach plug for every cleaning , on traditional rifles and pistols you do not remove the breach plug.

before shot 1 make sure to put anti seize on the threads of the breach plug . the stuff they sell for choke tubes is not adequate , use Permatex anti seize or similar like you would use on spark plugs and brake parts there is combustion taking place at the breach plug with significant pressure you want to be able to get it out.

each time you clean you remove the breech plug and clean it and re apply anti seize.

now that you have a clean and lubed barrel and a clean breach plug that has been anti seized , range time

before you load pop 2 caps/209 primers this clears and dries the flash channel of any moisture or lube. then pointing at a blade of grass down range from a few inches away pop a 3rd cap you should see the blade of grass move from the primers gasses

I would recommend loose 777 and a powder measure start about 50gr of powder , the barrel just isn't long enough to burn a whole lot more in a pistol. you can work up stopping at the manufacturers max charge but you are looking for accuracy when you find accurate that is what your looking for so you can stop if you go past go back to your last accurate group loading.

you will have to choose what projectile , I like the hornady great plains bullets , they are a lead conical but they expand decently as they are soft lead at lower velocities

you may choose a sabot and that is ok , they may be a bit harder to get down the barrel but will also work. I just don't have a lot of experience with sabots I mostly cast my own lead projectiles.

between shots swab the barrel this will make loading easier , a spit patch will work or a mix of 1/3 hydrogen peroxide , 1/3 rubbing alcohol , and 1/3 Murphy's oil soap mixed up and put in a small spray bottle to lightly moisten patches is very convenient and will keep the fouling soft and the barrel lubed as you load the next round

it is important to do everything the same each time , changing loading , or swabbing changes the groups

at the end of shooting , you clean , yes even if you only shot once.

with an empty gun you remove barrel from the frame and the breech plug from the barrel and clean from the rear placing the muzzle in a bucket of hot soap water and scrubbing with patch on jag until you have clean patches , you may also run a brass brush then more patches.

when your think you are clean you switch to just hot water and run more patches this is the flush of the soap , and corrosive salts you loosened up with the soap.

often I will also if I am at home run clear hot water down the barrel form the tap to really flush it.

manufactures would have you believe that modern subs are much less corrosive than real black powder but the truth is not much and some are actually more corrosive, there are a few that are very expensive and picky about pressure to get them lit that may not be corrosive.

I use mainly real black powder but I have used and had good results with 777 in hunting

777 is corrosive clean just like real black powder hot water and soap till clean then dry and lube with natural lube.

the hot water much like doing a final rinse with very hot water doing the dishes helps to dry the barrel quickly then run some dry patches and wipe down the outside then lube with natural oil/fat lube.

scrub the breach plug , reall pipe cleaners form a smoke shop help you clean the flash channel , then rinse and dry the breach plug

permatex anti seize on the breach plug threads , you wipe down the frame with a damp cloth to remove any powder residue on it then you can use regular gun oil on that if you like or the natural lube.

pyrodex is the one that is even more corrosive a lot of good barrels ruined to people who thought because to was a sub they didn't need to clean.


there are a lot of black powder solvents on the market , mainly they are to sell you something you don't really need what you need to do is flush the corrosive salts from your barrel

I do use the CVA gel cleaner when I find one that has some light corrosion , the cva gel is really relabeled Blue Wonder gel it cleans copper and being ammonia based also dissolves small amounts of rust , but it still needs to be gotten out of the barrel then treated with lube so yes they are available and have a place but in every day cleaning hot soap and water it used.


you could also use Hoppes , the thing is you need to run patches to get all the mineral oil out when done then lube with a natural lube any way so hot soap and water is generally cheap and available at a kitchen sink near you.


never pour powder from the can directly into the barrel , alwasy measure just what you need and close the can and then pour from the powder measure into the barrel with it tipped away from you.

on an inline you can push a charge out be removing the breach plug , but as stated above unless you fired your gun or found some very wet weather just removing the cap is generally considered unloaded no point in wasting those still good components if the gun stayed dry. just make sure you unload and clean at he end of the season.

don't forget to shoot it. a lot. before you hunt with it. learn your own personal max range.

Much good info above ...on a clean barrel alwat pop off a couple caps to clear and dry out the nipple area. 50-60 hr. Of 777 is all is needed. Greencountrypete said it well. During hunting season I load in the cold, after hunt if No shot I remove cap , case it up and keep it in the truck cold. It will fire as long as you don't bring it in to a warm house or garage and cause condensation. No need to empty it out each night.

I forgot to unload one of my side locks after MZLDR season a few years back , stored dry it still went of very well months later when I realized it and unloaded it.


but if you shoot , you clean that night

I have a friend who used to stay in hotels when hunting , he cleaned his muzzle loader sitting in the bath tub with it but he could not pop caps so he used some zippo lighter fluid to dry his flash channel and then made sure it was clear with a pipe cleaner and held his nipple with a pliers and heated it with his lighter then ran a nipple pick he would make sure it was very dry , minimally lube it and load for the next day.

this is with side locks using #11 caps the 209 shotgun primers are more forgiving ,, but a bit of prevention is a good thing.

on the inline the much hotter higher gas and heat volume 209 primer pushes strait through the breech plug into the powder charge so it is much less likely to have an issue , but no one likes to hear pop but no boom when they are pulling the trigger especially on game.

the same friend took a bear with his 50cal trappers pistol

I have had a chance to shoot the CVA optima at a training one of the other instructors brought one he won at a raffle. it seemed to be a good gun with an easy to remove breach plug you only put it in finger tight as I recall it has a knurled section , just keep anti seize on the threads.

a lot of people put breech plugs in inlines far too tight as an example the Omega I have has 5/8 inch of thread Engagement if you use use anti seize and take it out every time then put it in
snug then back off 1/4 turn then really just a good finger tight I never need more than a little 1/4 inch ratchet that is only 5 inches long to get them out or put them in so long as the threads are anti seized and they are not put in too tight.

I have a few including the Omega I got cheap , the breach plug seemed stuck , after 2 days of soaking in penetrating oil and an impact driver it came loose from looking at the breech plug someone had been over tightening it all along , but now the little 1/4 inch ratchet is all that I need to get it out

just a firm finger tight is all most inline need the only reason for the tool on many is to get to it , the optima gives the knurled outside as big around as the barrel to use your fingers well , unless your manufacturer specs more finger tight is good as long as finger tight is allthe way in why putting it in just to snug backing it off then finger tight works well.

it can't back out on the optima because the brake action closes up tight against it , if it did back out even a turn you couldn't get it closed on the primer

tools and accessories you should have

a ball/bullet starter https://www.midwayusa.com/product/611804/cva-hollow-point-bullet-starter-synthetic#

patches https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...black-powder-round-cotton-package-of-250

a range rod or extended cleaning jag so that your ramrod can get all the way through the barrel to clean it end to end https://www.midwayusa.com/product/574186/cva-cleaning-jag-50-caliber-black-powder-brass

powder meassure https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...ith-swivel-funnel-10-to-120-grains-brass

spout cap for powder can https://www.midwayusa.com/product/196996/thompson-center-powder-spout-for-pyrodex-container-polymer

speed loaders https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1763115590/cva-magnum-pellet-speed-loader-pack-of-3

natural lube https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1073416017/thompson-center-natural-lube-1000-plus-bore-butter-tube

also powder , projectile and primer

if your getting shock from all the stuff you need to run and clean a muzzle loader your not the first person , my first muzzle loader was 99 dollars a hundred more later I had what I needed to take the first shot well I had what I needed to take about 60 shots

Excellent and thank you very much.

I had a CVA Optima, a fine shooting gun. I made the mistake of using regular Never-Seez on the breach plug. It took water pump pliers to remove it.

regular never seize like the stuff they sell for choke tubes in the little tube ?

I made that mistake , was at the store and the directions said use anti seize on the threads I grabbed the anti seize sold at the sporting goods store for choke tubes and used it and after my first several shots had to take the gun back for the store gunsmith to break the breech plug he said use car type anti seize like you would on a spark plug , after that I used the Permatex I already had at home that I used on brake parts on trucks I never had a problem.

I have been using Permatex item 80078 https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-800...1543541627&sr=1-2&keywords=80078
for many years I have also used the copper variant it worked well also

on a H&R , a Thompson , CVA , traditions and a Knight and never had any problems when kids bring an inline to use for muzzle loader day at the range the first thing we do is pull the breach plug and put some permatex on the threads , we shoot all day and have never had a problem getting them out at the end of the day


one other thing I have seen is oil against the breach plug and 777 forms a very hard crust ring , best to pull the plug and run a patch with just a touch of natural lube or even spit.

been storing all muzzle loaders muzzle down on a rag now for about 4 years , had a lot fewer issues with ignition since I have , we have an annual youth muzzle loader shoot and several club guns they get used all day then cleaned and put up for the year , the lube or oil would settle down in the flash channel on the side locks in particular and about 5-7 rounds in misfire , once that was cleared and a thorough cleaning of the flash channel they would run well since storing them muzzle down this hasn't been an issue.

Nice job Danny.

Mike

I would highly recommend loose powder over pellets. My experience with pellets was inconsistent. My groups and performance improved after switching to loose powder. Loose powder allows you to experiment and fine tune to your liking. As far as Hornady vs the shockwaves it is the same bullet. Hornady actually makes the shockwave for TC if I'm not mistaken. The sabot may be different.
The combination that worked best for me has been blackhorn 209 and the SST.
Just my opinion. Good luck

Just make sure you know both your limitations and your ML handgun's limitations. They don't have much in the way of energy, so shot placement and range are critical unless you don't mind wounding deer.

I found the same, loose powder works best out of my muzzleloader rifle...not sure why, pellets open up my group...

Years ago I bought this loader from a custom builder, he showed me the difference in grouping between powder and pellets..

So I did everything to the T as advised above. Today I bore sighted it in by looking through the barrel at a target and aligning the scope. As luck would have it I shot twice and both were in the bulls-eye. How's that for bore sighting? The question is: Now that I am ready to hunt I assume that I pop 2 primers off before I load it for hunting? Thank you for your time.

I don't know about that but I used the regular anti-seize stuff we would normally put on any bolt we intend to loosen in the future. That was a huge mistake.

I use loose powder as well and even though the gun will handle 150 grains of black powder, I settled in on a load of just 80 grains. Knocked the snot out of bears and grouped extremely well for me.

after a cleaning before you load pop 2-3 caps to dry the flash channel and displace any oil that settled in the flash channel after cleaning.

you should have strong gas pressure at the muzzle if you rubber band a tissue over the muzzle it will blow a hole right through it. not that you need to do that just it gives you an idea of how much gas you should have at the muzzle from a 209 primer