How many think it is an effective strategy to set two traps at the same set? I'm undecided whether it will be more productive or if the extra time and disturbance at the set would spook canines or any critter for that matter. Red fox aren't a problem as far as getting them to step where I want them to but the grey fox and coyotes are proving to be different/more difficult. I'm also concerned that with a one trap set if they don't get pinched that first time they won't come back again for another chance. Haven't found that magic lure or bait that makes them become stupid enough to return again and again and get caught. Seems like I get one chance and that's it.

I'd never set just one unless it was the only trap I had. Two is minimum, and standard if after fox, but, if I have enough traps and there is any sign 4-5 is more likely if coyotes are the target. You simply can not get doubles with a single trap. If you don't want to stink the area up with lures at many sets you can set two blind sets in the approach path on each side of the scented set, for a total of five opportunities in place of one.

I'm not talking about one trap per location. I always set multiple SETS at each LOCATION. I'm talking about one trap at each set, as each dirt hole, each flat set, etc.

I would think that unnecessary unless dealing with a digger.

I have a dozen sets of 2 traps per anchor rigged up that I use a lot on dirt holes and walk through sets. I catch a lot of critters in them but I catch just as many on single trap sets.

If you have more traps than you have places to set them then why not increase your odds with 2 traps at a set.

I'm not going to look it up, but I think Boddicker had a study that showed an increased percentage of catches on sets with two traps on coyotes. That being said I can't force myself to double up a set with two traps I would rather spread myself thin. I've made one set in my life with two traps trying to catch a cat this year, and I actually had a possum with the second trap catching the first around his foot.

I'm sorry I misunderstood, I tend to think of all the traps in a group as the set. The farm, valley or hill etc as the location.
Two traps side by side automatically doubles your chance to catch one animal and ultimately to catch it twice. It also effectively disables all your swivels because one trap will entangle the other and the chains will be tied in knots. You won't like trying to release any non-targets or animals that must be released because of quotas. Also consider what if two animals are caught close enough together that they can fight or become entangled in each others chains. I like 10'-15' between traps, if coyotes are present.

I use two when setting an open area like a hay set in the middle of a cut field, hay mound with trap on both sides. Right now I have a flat set out in a featureless field with a deer skull in the middle of two traps. Reason being the k9 could come by either side .

I started using some two trap set ups this year and based on the results I plan on doing more of it.

Those of you who use two traps per set (dirt hole, flat set) do you place one trap in the traditional spot in front of the hole and another trap behind the hole or do you place both traps in front with one centered and one offset? To me it would seem that the terrain would dictate where the traps would go, no? I've been trying one trap at dirt holes this year and actually bedding it offset to the side with the dirt from the hole mounded up like it was dug from the hole naturally. Anyone had any luck doing this?

I think two traps could work at a dirt hole with one in front and one in back and connected to drags so the critter can leave the set and not get tangle up in the other trap or another animal.

Locklear suggests 2 traps per set to get that critter which comes to the back door. In his Teachers of the Night coyote videos, virtually none of the coyotes spent more than seconds in front of the dirt hole.

When I started pocket gopher trapping a couple years ago, the idea of a canine approaching from the back side made more sense. I’d bet nothing wants to creep out to the waiting jaws of a predator. Yet, if the predator stands behind the hole, there is a better chance dinner will come out at some point and can be ambushed.

A lot of good solid points made in this thread .

It makes sense tho. If you'll watch a dog at a hole he'll usually dig from both sides. Mostly from the back because top of the hole has less dirt then in bottom side. My rabbit dogs do this when I rabbit goes on a hole on them

Yep, makes sense to me. So why do we as trappers place the trap in front of the dirt hole? Yet we catch canines and all kinds of critters with the trap in front of the hole. I'm guessing that because we use a lot of un-natural baits and lures they are not expecting anything to come out of the hole and their curiosity just gets the best of them. That works fine on pups but adults are another matter.

I would use two traps only at a cat set

I wouldn't set two footholds unless it's in particular situations like hay sets or open field flat sets etc. There are time that two traps are great but usually with dirt holes not necessary however having two sets made at a particular location is great because you have the chance to double and always have a fresh set for weary coyotes that aren't liking the looks of that remake and catch circle.

So, those coyotes that approached from the rear did so by smell?

I've read this before and it makes no sense to me at all. The backing keeps them from seeing the hole from the rear and the wind blows the smell away from the rear and an animal following the smell will have to approach from the front or the wind won't let it smell anything.

The coyotes only spent seconds in front of the dirt hole, but it should only take one step in front a dirthole for them to be caught. I know this won't happen 100% of the time, but I've found with step down dirtholes as TJM has pointed out they cannot work the hole from anywhere but the front. That one step down in front of the hole they are usually buried up to their knees. Even if they started on the back side for whatever reason to get to that bait they've got to come down on the trench. The way I make the angle of the hole they can't see down it from either side or from the back. I've put the natural looking step downs right out in the middle of nowhere with no backing with increasing success. What I have seen from Clint that I do agree has increased my catches is not setting my hole facing the typical edges of fields, but towards the thicker cover. I've had less hesitation in natural travel ways irrigation ditches, two tracks, or even sets further in the hedge rows than the edges. They seem to be more confident when they're in some cover rather than out on an open field where every tom and harry can drive by and poke at them.

Also my thoughts looking at strictly numbers. Would you rather set 10 locations with two traps per bed (lets face it the odds of getting two coyotes to step on one trap a piece at a dirthole at the precise same time aren't impossible but highly unlikely yes I've seen it done) or would you rather set 20 locations with one trap. I know my answer strictly looking at numbers would be 20 locations with one trap.

Coyote will work the hole from the back side. Step down sets work better. I've even gone to using 2 holes just far enough apart to get the trap bedded between the two holes. Works pretty well.

A person like me that has more traps than time to check them, the second trap at a set has helped catch more fur, especially later in the season with snow and such.

TJM, I think the coyotes find the hole by sight and smell and spend the majority of their time waiting behind it for the occupant to come out. A step-down set with the hole horizontal, or nearly so, does force the canine to get in front of it to take a peek. Two schools of thought and both work

I have a trench set out now and have one trap in the trench and another on the back side(toward me) of the dirt pile from making the trench. Caught one cat by the back foot and waiting for another to come around again.

Locklear makes the dirt hole facing the travel way in the traditional up wind location and places the trap behind the backing/hole because that is where the animal will go once they recognize/see the hole while going by. It also depends how you lure the set. If your lure is down the hole the canine might not smell it from behind but if you lure the set by placing the lure on the lip of the hole, as some do, they can smell it from different directions from the hole. Most wind currents don't blow the same direction all night depending on where your location is, i.e. creek bottom versus side of ridge where the thermal winds currents change from morning to evening.

There are also theories of how an odor travels on the wind currents and how the molecules of the odor are displaced on objects in its path. The wind may be blowing from north to south today and leave lure molecules on ground objects south/down wind of the set and tomorrow be blowing west to east and then would leave lure molecules on ground objects east of the set. So many different variables to consider.

I know they work other places but in my area I have had zero luck with step down sets.

I use the 2 hole set also.What I do is have them about 12" apart ,I also put 2 different baits and then lure between the holes and a shot of urine and put dog fur in the hole after to cover the bait and then bed the trap 18" back from the holes on center. it is normal if the trap is sprung that something is in it.You very rear have it sprung.unless there is many deer around. I had talk with Clit last year at the FTA and he gave his demo on K-9 and talk about set the trap 18" from the hole because alot of times the coyote will not go really close to the hole.

If the the animal can leave the trail and circle the set close enough to get in that rear trap; the set is at a poor location.
Now think about this and study about it for a few days- but Why do you make a hole if not to conceal the bait/lure and direct the animal into the trap?
If I want to distribute the scent in many directions, I put it about 4' high and 10' away from the set. if I want to catch an animal I put the scent/bait in a place that can only be approached from one single place/direction- this takes a couple minutes of planning, maybe, but if you chose to set an open in all directions bait with zero guidance, then I would suggest ten or twenty traps arranged in a complete circle, because if the animal approaches from some direction than the "front" you can not guess what direction that will be. Setting the trap at the "rear" of the hole simply means the hole has no "front" because you made it frontless on purpose. That is a wasted hole. It tells the target "go any where, I don't care to trap you".
Coyotes, fox and bobcats are not mink, they do not investigate holes just because they see a hole, at least not in my patch- this country is chock full of abandoned woodchuck holes and armadillo holes and holes and holes, and very often more holes; these stupid animals here never got to watch any videos either so they never learned that they are are supposed to reason like humans. The only reason I ever make a hole is to use as a guide and a cache. But iI have no videos to watch and none to sell either.
The best hole I have used is mouse sized either on a bank/slope or under something like a stump,rock, bale, etc.- with all those big holes I have I have never found a cat or coyote track near any of them.

This is how mine are set at a dirt hole. Both traps are on one anchor so they're only going to catch one animal. I only rigged these up because I have more traps than I have areas to set them.









Numbers don't lie! I catch a lot of coyotes, fox, bobcats and coons in these sets.

Think how many you’d catch with one trap in front of two holes instead of one. I can see it for $1000 cats that come once every two weeks. A $50 coyote that comes by every couple days in my opinion you’re handicapping yourself or you’ve missed the art of simple guiding.

$1,000 cats!.... Wow! I'm sorry but I'm laughing my head off at the notion of a $50 coyote! The last ones I sold green about 4 years ago were $10! I haven't skinned one since.

I'm in South Alabama WadeRyan. Our fur isn't anywhere near worth those prices. I trap to control predator numbers.

I honestly don't think my method is better than anyone else's. When I teach others I always tell them my way isn't right or wrong, it's just what works for me.

That’s my point exactly. You’re not catching a $1000 cat so you’re wasting a trap. With double the sets you’d be controlling more predators. You said yourself numbers don’t lie. It’s simple math.

You didn't read my original post!

I have more traps than I have places to set them so I'm not wasting anything.

These work for me. The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine.

I've have encountered a new (for me) situation at part of my trapline . I have 4 dirthole sets spread out along a 2 track about 1/2 mile long. I have already caught 2 bobcats and a coon. The sets were intended for coyotes. The landowner had trail cameras out for seer season but that's over with here and he pulled his cameras. He had fox, coyote, bobcat, and coon pictures from that trail.
In the last week 3 of those 4 dirtholes have had traps uncovered (not dug out) and the screen pan covers pulled off. Because of vegetation surrounding the sets and no snow, I've not been able to see any tracks to identify which critter is the culprit. Today I set up two trail cameras at two of the set locations in order to positively identify which animal is the digger. Regardless of what it is, I think I will put in a well-blended second trap, set back from the one in front of the hole, at all 4 locations in hopes of catching whatever it is. This will be interesting.

Hope you get 'em mifox!

North40R...man I wish I had that type of soil to trap in!

Well guess I should have read these responses a few days ago, lol.
Here’s the scenario, 2 track road, back half of dead rabbit in a hole with the cottontail sticking out, grass covering the hole from aerial predators but visible to anything walking the road. Trap placed out front bedded Zaggerman style about 10” or so back.

So...anyone want to guess what happened?

My guess is the culprit walked the trail, saw/smelled the rabbit, and...you guessed it. That sucker came in from the back side of the grass and made off with a free meal, all the while my trap sat out front unmolested!!

Always learning...

I get at a few grey fox every year that refuse to work the set from the front. They just will not do it. I try blocking heavier and it makes no difference. They just end up climbing on the backing to work the hole and usually end up kicking something on to the trap bed and setting off the trap. There are just some critters that have been educated to holes and work them differently.

I plan on setting up a few cameras on sets to learn more on guiding and trap placement.

I know it's not a k9 but I do use the 2 trap system when its needed

Nice cat Ken. Original question open to all critters!

When I trapped in KY, it was against the law to have two traps close enough for the same critter to get caught in both. I think it looks bad from a public relations standpoint whether it's legal or not.

If the traps are on drags, you're not likely to catch the same animal in both traps. It seems greys usually approach from the rear. Put one trap on a drag behind the backing, and another trap on a drag like a normal set and maybe catch to animals at the set without having something tangled up in two traps.

I made about a hundred dirt holes this year testing lures with no traps set. Most all the holes got dug at some point. No foxes here just coyotes. Some had tracks behind hole if no backing but all the holes got dug from front side. Personally I'd rather make more sets than add two traps per set on coyotes. Even if its blind sets in same area as the lured set. I've watched Clint's videos and you will never convince me the cameras didn't affect the coyotes. Think he even said that himself in the video.

Its reasonably easy to control were a coyote steps at a dirt hole if it's in the right location and constructed well. Step down dirt holes and double dirt holes as stated previously are great for this. Use the mounds of dirt to guide the feet.

I've come to the conclusion you're not going to tell them any different. As Ken showed that's about the only time I would find myself digging for two traps. For a coyote I can't say I ever would and I surely would not be placing a trap on the back of a dirthole. If you're continuously getting worked from the back you're doing something wrong....only my opinion I guess.

Thanks grey55
Imo there is lot difference in a k9 and a cat once caught.
Where it's on a drag or stakes solid.
Once a cat is caught and he gets away from set on a drag becomes quite ,settles, in till you get there.

What I have noticed here in the northeast is that the flat set is a better coyote and grey fox set. Once trapping season opens there are a lot of un-natural holes in the ground and it puts the animals on guard. Being conservative...if 1000 trappers hit the woods and fields and each puts in say ten dirt hole sets that is 10000 new holes that weren't in the canines territory yesterday. They got to be saying...what is going on? You might get a few before they realize what is going on but by the second or third day they will be on alert. This all depends on how much competition is out there of course. This scenario might not be a problem in other areas of the country but here in Pa. it happens.

Grey I get what your saying. From what people post I believe coyote behavior varys somewhat in different regions. I also belief it is harder to control where a coyote puts its foot at flat sets.

You really believe canines are that aware??

Definitely!

Yes, no doubt it is harder to guide a yotes foot in a flat set. I count on the target animal, be it a coyote or a fox, to make several passes thru the set area to get pinched. I have better luck doing this. I guess I don't have the knack of guiding their foot at dirt holes. When I do try to guide them the set looks too obvious to me.

I intend on setting 12 traps 20 foot between each next season down one line fence. Have a couple large packs running the area and I want to see how many I can get bouncing around at the same time.

I caught a coon by the front leg, and back leg. After he was caught by the front leg, he was bouncing around trying to escape, and his back leg bounced into the 2nd trap.
I won't do it again. Too much work, when 1 trap would have sufficed.

He was 1 (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) off coon. Barking at me like a pit bull.

In my opinion, setting 2 traps together as standard practice is not a good idea or necessary. With a digger or other problem customer, yes. Then it is time for multiple holes or multiple traps because they can only count to one. Two dirt holes confuses them. A second trap pulled back can work well. Or a stealth set upwind to catch the animal off guard while it is focused on the problem set.

The dirt pattern is unnecessarily large. Have you ever seen the digging of a fox or coyote? Small, narrow, and messy. They don’t ever sift the dirt!

I would much rather cover twice the locations, or have a reserve of clean traps ready to go.

Actually, since these are my opinions, this is what I do.

Are you trying to trap yourself, or the critter?

I think a lot of guys would be surprised at the look a NEW, naked hole can get. Even without something smelly down it. The smell of fresh dug earth is an attraction in itself.

Now a hole they’ve been by 500 times without change, sure, they’ll probably ignore it.

I’ve got sand ridges here with literally hundreds of holes in them. Badger holes, gopher holes, p-dog holes. Pick one, throw something stinky in it, catch a coyote. Dig a new hole amongst all those other old holes, catch a coyote.

Ten inches back gives a lot of room to work the set between the trap and the hole.

I want one lever IN the hole.

I love that last sentence. The whole offset, 9-10 inches back because (enter here) said it works etc. always perplexed me. Watching multiple coyotes on cameras they would always lead with their nose, and their front foot would be right behind it. I've moved my traps closer to the holes rather than farther away. When they bury their head down the hole as I generally want them to with a quality bait they step right outside the hole. There is no need to guide, and the stepdown seals the approach.

Also to coyotes not investigating new holes is false. I'd be willing to bet a guy could catch a coyote with nothing but a fresh hole and a trap out front. I watched where coyotes had worked dirtholes I'd pre-dug over and over in the snow. Not a single bit of lure or bait down them. I wasn't able to get to those locations due to 5-6 foot snow drifts from the road for the first week. They saw the indentation where the snow went in the hole which is all they needed. We have badger holes around every corner, and even if not in use they get worked regularly which is especially evident after a snow.

wanna be says-
back half of dead rabbit in a hole with the cottontail sticking out,
My guess is the culprit walked the trail, saw/smelled the rabbit, and...you guessed it. That sucker came in from the back side of the grass and made off with a free meal, all the while my trap sat out front unmolested!!
Your hole wasn't deep enough, first off. You are causing your own problems.

Many times a Coon will be in front of set, sit down and lean over trap bed and clean out hole. Other times and Fox or 'Cat, from front or side of set, will hook bait with toenail and clean bait from hole. Clean hole, trap not fired or disturbed.
With an empty hole, All this leads folks to think they were robbed from behind. Folks can't figure why the trap isn't fired or a catch made. It's all on the missed animal, what the animal did wrong. At this point, Trapper's thought process begins & ends with- set was worked from behind.
Trapper doesn't recall what went right or how set was made with the last catch or last couple of catches.
Trapper forgets a deeper hole (with correct angle) usually solves problems from bait robbers.
If there is snow, then the animal will clearly show you what you did wrong, more so in detail then I can write.

-A couple of things to remember wanna be & others...Dig hole deeper.
Stuffing whole Squirrel or Rabbit into a small hole is easy pickings (hooking with toenail) for a predator to steal your bait. Pin lager baits in bottom of hole.
-Another thing...dig a deeper hole. Some folks don't dig a dirthole deep enough (creating their problem) and wonder why bait gets stolen. Set construction, location or shift in wind is possibly making critter work hole assbackwards. Dig the hole deeper to begin with.
-Learn proper set construction.
-Another thing- Learn more about the use of paste baits and lures to place in dirtholes.
Don't put anything in hole they can reach easily. Dig it deeper.

Hern - Learn more about the use of paste baits and lures to place in dirtholes.

I have learned that bait or lure sticks are a no no. Too easy for the target to get them out of the hole and then they lose interest and are gone. By using paste bait and smearing it around the hole as deep as I can get it makes it work much better. It gets impregnated into the dirt and makes the target animal work the set much longer. Lure use is the same way. By pouring it into the hole is gets into the dirt and does the same thing. Creates more interest and holds it longer. I also never leave a hole "naked" without at least partially plugging it with leaves, grass, whatever is natural to the area.

I have to say this: in the referenced videos the coyotes would not turn their back to the camera. Put the camera in back of the hole and watch the coyotes come in from the front. I can catch my share of the coyotes and all that is needed is a single trap in front of the hole/bait.

Morgan Bennett uses two traps in front of the hole. Locklear uses two traps around his dirt holes. I believe I’ve seen older books by Paul Dobbins discussing two traps per set. It’s not a new concept and it looks like some people use it regularly to catch what’s coming to the attractors. The method isn’t wrong. It’s just what works for them.

I give up.
Mac

Two traps can get you this

One at a set never will

A lot of irony in that there post seeing how he's actually agreeing with the guy and supporting it with his own experience.

But I can make 100 sets with a 100 traps while you can only make 50 sets with a 2 trap set up.

And that's a cool picture but It's not a regular occurrence. You would be a lot farther ahead to make 2 or 3 sets In that location then putting 2 traps at one set.

With any kind of a decent backing or the right lure placement your going to have most critters working the set from the front where your trap Is placed. If you miss It In that set the other 2 In that same location should take It.

I agree with you Beav, I only set like that on a very limited basis. That set was ment to catch some mangey reds and a coyote that I have been after for more than a year.
If I set two traps close it is what I call my walking dead set.
A baited d/hole with a blind set 4" away. I pick the spot for the blind set first and make the baited set accordingly.
The pic was a buried bait set.

I'm hearing what you said.

I've seen pictures of two coyotes, two fox, and two coons in one set....can't say I've ever seen two bobcats in one trap......I've learned to never say never in trapping. That being said I'm sure I've already said it once in this thread, but I am still going with Beav here. It really depends if you're going for numbers or trying to kill the very last animal. If you're looking at strictly numbers 100 traps on 100 locations will out produce 100 traps on 50 locations.....just my opinion of course.

As a rule I don't put 2 traps per set. I try to let the set tell me if it needs 2. If I have a digging fox (or coyote) on more than one check at a set I will usually add a 2nd trap. If he digs to one side I might add the trap on the digging side and block the weak side a little harder but I usually leave the first trap pretty much centered to the hole. If the digging continues without a catch I will normally convert to a step down and if it is a fox he is usually there waiting on me it it doesn't rain. If I have refusals (that I can see) in front then I might add a 2nd trap 18-24" back. I sometimes do start out with 2 traps on a flat set if it is in a spot that I think I can blend both traps well...like in all dirt or sand. I usually won't if it is in sod.

I think it would be interesting to see pictures of sets from people who regularly think they need two traps per set compared to pics from people who get it done with one. I bet there would be some obvious difference. I've seen some set pics on here for coyotes that were so open that I don't know if three traps would of been enough. If you pick your location for the set good enough there should only be room for one trap IMHO. Mark June's coyote book is really good about how to pick the micro location for the set.

When I set more then one trap in area it is about 20 yards or less apart with different type of set.If you miss something in one you have a good chance to get them at the other set.I had that happened 2 times this season.On the same 2 set.

I believe it was a Major Boddicker study that produced a statistic showing a catch rate increase of 30% at sets when using 2 traps. I'm sure Morgan will correct me if I'm wrong.

So, that is the increase from a single set with single trap to a single set with double trap. I wonder how the catch rate compares between 2 single trap sets, to one set with two traps.

https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2018/02/full-3109-404296-image.png

if this link works this is the only time I have caught 2 cats in one set. Traps were only 8 or 10 inches apart and were on same drag...big log just to the right of the cats. Good day on the cat line.