Any attractor or tool is only as good as the trapper and where he puts it, period!

That is a fact.

Well at least with this thread I'll know who's bottles I'll be sniffin at the conventions.

TDHP I don't understand your seeming animosity towards lure formulators using "authentic" ingredients. What's up with that? I use synthetic, artificial and authentic ingredients. I prefer to use authentic when I can get the material, but will use synthetic and artificial when authentic isn't available.

when it comes to valerian, authentic is sure enough easy to get. while house cats don't always respond like a bobcat I still test any new valerian on our housecats. if they eat and rub on it and act kinda drunk, it has always worked on my trapline.

When it comes to valerian, all I use is authentic valerian root powder which I tincture. I don't know that there is a synthetic or artificial valerian product.

Mr. Dobbins, misunderstanding I guess, no animosity here.

Okay, it's just the way I took it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I see two types of customers on average. One type is experienced trappers who know that good lure is just one component of their system, and once they have put it all together (proper location, hard work, the right equipment, the right set presentation) they want a good lure to seal the deal.

The other type customer is seeking magic in a bottle. I make it very clear to those customers that there is no lure that can make up for the other things that make for catches, and there is no "magic" in a bottle.

That said, I agree with others in that I use authentic ingredients when I can, and synthetics when I can't get the other. I think there is no substitute for real mink glands for example.

To qualify this I am a fairly new face in the lure making game......so sure wouldn't tell anyone else how to do it. I just do as I am told by the expert.

The name is Dalton.

There are some that keep kicking a long dead horse and never quite seem to understand the basics of successful trapping. Maybe they have trouble applying those skills.

This has been stated many times by several on this topic and most all of the components of the subject.

That is why some trappers are successful and have developed skills over the line and others keep looking for the holy grail.

This post has taken on many faces LOL Many thoughts have popped up. Every experienced trapper Knows that the bait or lure is the last part of the equation. Newer trappers are looking for the magic, we all did!!!!! But at some point we find out that all the other components must come first. Do some market a little over board Yep. Do some have a problem with any one marketing anything yep.

The question about valerian real or fake can only be answered by the person formulating the product and the intent that the person has in mind. And that can only be found out by many hours and years of testing. Something most do not want to do. It takes time and the most unwanted, costs money. I use the powder mostly and it works in some formulations and may not work in another formulation.

What does 30 years in formulating have that the newer formulator does not? Does it mean that a new formulators product can not match up to a old goat formulator? Absolutely not!!!! I think mostly the experienced, they have intent, rather than the lets see what happens. I am by no means a Paul Dobbins or Bob Jameson or the many other proven lure makers reading this post, in the formulating and understanding, but after many years I find myself working on new products with intent or looking to get x response from the animal, because I have goofed up enough to see some of the things that happen bad and learned to see some of the things that are good when adding this to that, 30 years ago, I could not see anything compared to what I see today. Does it make me a better maker? IDK But I do not have the blow ups now that I use to LOL


When it comes to magic in a bottle, well we all know there is no such thing, and to a ldc we all know there is no 500 yards LOL and depending on the wind speed and open vs obstacles in that wind current, we are lucky to consistently get 50 yards let alone 100 lol although there will be times that 100 plus can be gotten in the right open wind landscape. I along with every formulator on here has put out 10 test sites and in 5 days had every one hit hard by the animal only to have 3 hit out of 10 in the next test period LOL we need testing long tern to see which ones produce the best the most.


Did I say I like valerian powder or fake stuff Yes LOL

Good post. Thank you for taking the time to share it.

So is valeric acid better if artificial or if distilled from the root?

Valerian can have effects in the valeric acid form if ingested in such a delivery form or it may have odor related effects. The latter is what I work with in our formulation. The acid form does not seem to have the better odor release mechanism associated with the pure powder form in my experience.

Valeric acid is commonly used in human consumption form for those not aware. That is commonly comprised of .8% > 1% active Valeric Acid per doze to my knowledge..

It is used by some much like melatonin is for a relaxation sleep aide of sorts. Effects vary per individual as would be expected. Others may have had another perception of this factor during its use. I can only share in regards to my own work.

I prefer using pure Valerian Root Powder that I have found to have the most dominate odor representation that I deem is meeting our standards and needs best.

From this form you may 1) use it in its raw form in a formula, 2) use it as a raw stand alone material in a neutral medium/base to present the material in the most desirable manner 3) or it may distilled or solubilized in a tinctured form to the strength that suits your best requirements.

Those are my thoughts as to your question as they relate to my usage.

Isn’t valeric acid used to preserve urine collected at fur farms?

My initial response was with valerian root pdr. or valeric acid ( pentanoic acid) use as an ingredient in odor representation within a formula.

It ( pentanoic acid ) can be used for several areas of preservation and it also has mold inhibiting properties. It is widely used in foods, grains, feeds and for its flavor enhancing properties. It has a broad spectrum chemical application allowing for many uses.

I have never used it in urine as a preservative. Some may very well do that. Clean collected urine does not need preserving. However those that have recent collected urine who may be concerned about its potential quality may well add a preservative.

A preservative can be added after straining and filtering. This process will remove the more dense particulate to help guard against accelerated bacteria growth over time while in storage.

An avid Lure Formulator is what I deem as a hybrid mix of a novice chemist and mad scientist. There have been many interesting experiences in my life as I am sure with others in the field. The learning never ceases.

Thanks Bob

Danny, are you thinking of zinc valerate?