I want to try making my own bobcat meat based coyote bait. Considering adding some gator oil to the bobcat meat, and I was wondering how much gator oil to add to a gallon of ground bobcat meat? Any other suggestions to add to the bait or opinions on the gator oil would be greatly appreciated!

have you made any test sites with gator oil to see what coyotes do when they find it? what reaction are you hoping that oil gets? have you tried any test sites with straight bobcat meat? when your bait is complete what response do you want it to elicit? there are a lot of questions you need to ask and answer yourself.

No I haven't tried any test sights. I'm new at making my own baits, but something I would like to try. Never thought about putting out test sights, but that definitely is something I will do with some trail cameras to get answers to those questions. Thank you!

I'd ask Brian at Southern Snares if it was me. Google is your friend.

I don't know how strong it is, BUT start small...like separate a quart of meat and add 1/2 tsp oil, mix well, let sit a day, mix well again.
let sit another day...…..then take a whiff and see if ya can smell it. If not add another 1/2 tsp, and repeat cycle.

If it smells strong after the first tsp, add a pint of meat and start mixing cycle again and see how it tones it down...…….might need to do this twice actually.

Welcome to the bait making process!

Thank you! And thanks for the information. Looking forward to trying new things!

From my experience (maybe my nose is shot but) you don't have to be able to smell an ingredient in a formulation for that ingredient to be effective. Sometimes I like my secondary odors to be very subtle. Just some food for thought.

jmo, when targeting a specific animal you are after studying that animal by "testing" and observing behavior will put more fur in your traps than a bunch of add this add that etc. There are pages full of add this and add that on the internet and folks still looking for the end all recipe.

I'd rather test and know why I'm adding something to a bait so when something isn't pulling them animals like it should, I could adjust and have an idea or know why I'm doing something.

Thank you for your opinion. I'm new at this and just thought this year I would just make my own bait. I never really thought about what all was involved with it until I posted this thread and got some other opinions on making bait. Now I'm looking at the bait making an entirely different way than I was before.

I agree just because I can't smell it doesn't mean they can't smell it. I'm going to start mixing up some things for testing this week and get some trail cameras out to see what kind of reactions I'm getting to different things. Thank you for your opinion.

I'd stay away from the rabbit hole IE magic potions when it comes to ingredients. Lots of folks are buying up them ingredients and still coming up short on the line. I like to keep with the meat and potatoes of the bait and rely more on my skill set when it comes time to setup shop for the target animal. The meat and potatoes keeps fur in the traps and money in the bank in regards to adc. You don't need to be a "supah star" to make an effective bait that will take animals on the daily. We all know plenty of trappers who have purchased "supah star" bait and lure and them bottles still sitting on the shelves because them trappers have purchased other supah star products that are also starting to collect dust from season to season because they on the internet reading what the next new item is. Don't over complicate the process, learn to understand the connection between what you are offering and what gets them fired up through out the year IE what they need etc and you should be alright. Good Luck Sir

The more u test the more you will learn and the more you will understand. 2 years of formulating and testing (a lot of testing) has been very eye opening to me. Simple or complicated I dont really care but I know there are a lot of mediocre lures and baits out there and I know there are some formulations that set themselves apart. It's just a matter of putting in the extra work to find them, whether it be your own or someone else's. A great lure wont make a beginner trapper a rock star but a really great lure will make a noticable difference in the hands of a skilled trapper. The more traps you run the more noticable the difference. The great thing about testing is it doesn't take much skill, just be on good locations and be able to poke a hole in the ground for most testing. If your interested in learning and willing to do a little work the rewards are well worth it.

In bold is equivalent to a ford chevy argument or a new balance / asics battle. Both could arguably be "great, greater or greatest" all matter of opinion based on results for the individual using the product, not because someone else says so. At the end of the day if the animal isn't interested in whats being offered, you aren't going to get that animal to commit off an odor. Just take a look at all the pages on forums filled with "what is the best bait for X" even though some of the folks posting have gone through many of the "great bait /lure" names out there aka "really great" etc and still in forums asking for the best. Lots of them folks have animals walking within a couple of feet and walking right by the "great" bait and lure without skipping a beat.




When a super trapper can't produce on a "great" bait or lure what is the problem? I don't buy into the "great" or any other fancy names for it. One will find them self circling the rabbit hole sooner rather than later with that mentality.

Why would one need a "really great" bait or lure then?

And here I thought "No animal will walk past this one". lol

The good news is they don't have to believe any of us, if the want the truth they can test it on the target animals if they are willing to put forth the work.

I for one don’t listen to anyone about bait/ lure being good or bad. I only test when making a set in trapping season. Waste of time imo testing outside of season. NO ADC trapper here .

The good thing about testing in mock sets is you actually see the animals reaction to the formulation as with a trap you just know that it stepped on your trap because everything in trap circle is destroyed. Another advantage with mock sets they are usually faster to put in, you dont have to check them every day, plus you can put a lot of them in right at the edge of roads or travel ways without having permission on ground all adding up to more sets which increases your learning curve considerably.

I use to say testing outside of season was a waste of time also (which probably was really more of an excuse) until I started doing it. I actually think in some ways it can teach you more now that I've tried it. And I'm no ADC guy either. I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind just sharing my experience in case it can help someone else. Plus anytime your studying animals reactions your adding to your knowledge of their behavior.

X2. I don't eat fruit to put on winter fat.

No two coyotes will have the same response : somethings smell better than others and taste different, just like humans.
K.I.S.S.

Food sources change many times during the year depends on your location also .

Which is why I'm trying to figure out the difference between great and really great. If something doesn't work for an individual but works "great" for someone else, what makes it so great to the one who has to continue to burn through bait and lure makers to find something "greater"? I believe too much emphasis is placed on the whole bait and lure concept. IMO it's just a small fraction with a "basic" purpose, bigger things to worry about than just how many days, months to hours a bait taints etc. Folks who complicate that process seem to be the ones running through formulas and wasting time.

As you stated TDHP your bait and lure is only a fraction of the trapping equation. Quite possibly the person you refer to burning through bait and lure makers doesn't have the rest of the equation down. But as a lure maker (be it an amauter one) I strive for the best stuff I can make. Through what I've seen from testing formulations on actual coyotes I truly have seen a difference in a few formulations over most others. Whether the lure I use is a big part of the equation or a small part I like have the best I can get. And with the formulations that really shine time of the year or what the coyotes are eating doesn't appear to have much of any bearing on the effectiveness of it from what I've seen testing so far. I tested a friends horse meat here lately and so far it looks to be about the best thing I've tested so far and the coyotes in my area are eating a lot of sandhill plums and haven't even switched over to the horses yet.

And Tbn,
That horse formulation is similar to the bait you make.

If a bait or lure is getting the animal to a particular location and keeping an animal interested IE "working" a "set", how much better can it get? Or better yet, what else can you ask that product to do besides stuffing it into a cage or placing a bracelet on it?



^^^ True statement

Bait and lure won't make up for a lazy trapper.

At the end of the day it's what works for you on your line, not because it's made by X and so n so said so because they tested all year and had "great" results.

And I will add that all this is based and what I've seen in two years of testing. I will admit I haven't seen or learned it all my any stretch of my imagination but I do know without testing I sure wouldn't have any idea what theories bouncing around on the internet have real merit. Testing simply adds to my understanding of coyotes and the more experience and understanding I hope will lead to being a better trapper and lure maker.

\m/

Not all coyotes are the same from my experience, some will work the majority of what I put out and I've got some coyotes that won't work anything. So far from what I've seen the better formulations that will get the more cautious coyotes to work a set will always get worked by the easy ones. And I guess in my mind that is the difference between good and better.

Well said any time you send time around the animal your persuing you gain knowledge! If not you need to open your eyes. Mock sets as a whole teach way more then formulating it also teachs location animal density! Now lets talk trap placement. a very good teacher with little effort!

I get it...all I was getting at is the fact you could have a "great" product that excels for you. Just because it is performing well doesn't mean it's going to do the same for everyone else. Hence why the whole "greatness" is a matter of opinion. As for part of the process, anyone who is out there and taking trapping seriously knows that there are bigger aspects to the game besides bait and lure. Good luck

I test year round not just trapping and ADC products, but also my deer products, my fishing scents, my bear products. I also test year round my turkey calls deer calls predator calls and water fowl calls. I believe that we put our self in boxes based on what we hear, or afraid that something will fail, so we will not try it.( I try a lot of stupid ideas and stuff I just don't tell anyone If it doesn't work LOL ) yet we can not know if what we hear or afraid of is a reality unless we try it. Nothing works 100% of the time, but the more we or the user understands the product and its positives and it's negatives the more we can make it positive. Testing not only shows the product but also shows us how we can become better. I learn more from the negatives and the things that go wrong than I do with the things that always go right. I have a situation right now where our Deer dry attractants have a very high positive results from the sites, with 200 to 300 reactions in 3 to 5 days.( Digging) yet one site the deer just stand 6 to 10 feet away from the dig. This is driving me nuts and I have to figure out why this site the deer are reacting this way. The product has 20 years behind it with high positive reactions, I know it works,, but I have to find out why it is not working here, yet when I think about it, It is working !!! The deer are still coming to it, just not doing what I expect. The deer hunter would still see the deer and can kill a deer there, but the deer hunter will in fact say it is not working because they are not digging it!!!!! They may kill a deer there but the product did not work!!!!!! I learn nothing new from the positive sites but I will learn a great amount of new information from this negative site when it is all said and done. And this will help me to understand more not only on how to use the product and where but how I can instruct my customers on how and where to use the products. I believe knowing where, when and why a product is not going to work is more important than anything else, because nothing is 100%

I never understood testing baits out of season. Like testing fruit baits in the summer for coyote but then trapping them In December.when they are eating meat,not fruit and grasshoppers.

Doesn't matter how good something works for someone else. If it isn't working for the individual using it and we all know good trappers who cant produce on certain products or can make their own and have a much better catch rate. Then the product isn't the "best or greatest". If there were such a thing you wouldn't need all the "proven" products that are out today with many customers continuing to seek out better products. If the product gets them there and it's doing everything it is designed to do, what else can you ask of the product? At what point does the trapper take accountability to promote success in the field? There are folks out there who don't even use bait and lure that out trap many who do.

Thanks for the "Gift" TDHP. Smells like money in the bank.

I have caught fox in the winter on fruit baits. I get fox and coyotes pulling my DP traps out of the ground using fruit baits in the winter. I use strong sweet baits to use as a draw for my snares in the winter for k9 Don't believe me ask Newt and Morgan if I do.

The point is testing in the off season gives the trapper a understanding of animal behavior. not just if the product works the way we want it to. If a certain coyote is coming up to whatever product and standing out front of the set by 24 inches the trapper says the product does not work!!!!! yet the coyote comes in every 3 days to stand in the same place and look and smell. it is working just not the way we think it should. I am putting a blind set in setting a snare or putting a trap at that spot it stands and catching his tail. I ain't got no pride in how I catch him. We forget we are not making these animals do anything other than what they want to do. If they do not want to do it they ain't doing it. It has been said many ways in this post. There is no magic in a bottle or jar. and if the trapper does not know where the animal wants to be and what it wants to do the greatest products will not work!!!! If the trapper is where the animal wants to be and knows what it wants to do then the not so great scent or bait can look great. testing for the lure maker shows if the product will work or not testing out of season and in season shows the maker the different responses the animal will give depending on many different factors. for the trapper that does not make products testing out of season gives them a deeper look at the animal and what they want to do which gives the trapper a deeper understanding of the animal, which makes the trapper more rounded and will give them more catches. Yes bobcat meat works on coyotes LOL

One of my baits uses persimmon oil and they like it even in the middle of january. Indiana for more reference

Just kinda curious....^^^ If a "proven" bait is on the market by a bait maker with decades of knowledge behind their product shouldn't there be no question on whether or not you purchased a "great" scent? Someone with that much knowledge couldn't or wouldn't put together a not so great scent or would they?

Just kinda curious....^^^ If a "proven" bait is on the market by a bait maker with decades of knowledge behind their product shouldn't there be no question on whether or not you purchased a "great" scent? Someone with that much knowledge couldn't or wouldn't put together a not so great scent or would they? [/quote]
From my testing I think there is some validity to that question.

Jonsesie hit the nail on the head. You can learn a ton from testing like where to place the trap where they want to step and see the actual reaction or not. I test new to me stuff in September, if it gets a reaction then it will in November. The best stuff makes them dig and pee..

Tight chains with Grade A fur!

Everything you read about the first white men to go west trapping beaver talks about how fond they were of "spinning tall tales". I don't think that has changed much

X2