As you stated TDHP your bait and lure is only a fraction of the trapping equation. Quite possibly the person you refer to burning through bait and lure makers doesn't have the rest of the equation down. But as a lure maker (be it an amauter one) I strive for the best stuff I can make. Through what I've seen from testing formulations on actual coyotes I truly have seen a difference in a few formulations over most others. Whether the lure I use is a big part of the equation or a small part I like have the best I can get. And with the formulations that really shine time of the year or what the coyotes are eating doesn't appear to have much of any bearing on the effectiveness of it from what I've seen testing so far. I tested a friends horse meat here lately and so far it looks to be about the best thing I've tested so far and the coyotes in my area are eating a lot of sandhill plums and haven't even switched over to the horses yet.

And Tbn,
That horse formulation is similar to the bait you make.

If a bait or lure is getting the animal to a particular location and keeping an animal interested IE "working" a "set", how much better can it get? Or better yet, what else can you ask that product to do besides stuffing it into a cage or placing a bracelet on it?



^^^ True statement

Bait and lure won't make up for a lazy trapper.

At the end of the day it's what works for you on your line, not because it's made by X and so n so said so because they tested all year and had "great" results.

And I will add that all this is based and what I've seen in two years of testing. I will admit I haven't seen or learned it all my any stretch of my imagination but I do know without testing I sure wouldn't have any idea what theories bouncing around on the internet have real merit. Testing simply adds to my understanding of coyotes and the more experience and understanding I hope will lead to being a better trapper and lure maker.

\m/

Not all coyotes are the same from my experience, some will work the majority of what I put out and I've got some coyotes that won't work anything. So far from what I've seen the better formulations that will get the more cautious coyotes to work a set will always get worked by the easy ones. And I guess in my mind that is the difference between good and better.

Well said any time you send time around the animal your persuing you gain knowledge! If not you need to open your eyes. Mock sets as a whole teach way more then formulating it also teachs location animal density! Now lets talk trap placement. a very good teacher with little effort!

I get it...all I was getting at is the fact you could have a "great" product that excels for you. Just because it is performing well doesn't mean it's going to do the same for everyone else. Hence why the whole "greatness" is a matter of opinion. As for part of the process, anyone who is out there and taking trapping seriously knows that there are bigger aspects to the game besides bait and lure. Good luck

I test year round not just trapping and ADC products, but also my deer products, my fishing scents, my bear products. I also test year round my turkey calls deer calls predator calls and water fowl calls. I believe that we put our self in boxes based on what we hear, or afraid that something will fail, so we will not try it.( I try a lot of stupid ideas and stuff I just don't tell anyone If it doesn't work LOL ) yet we can not know if what we hear or afraid of is a reality unless we try it. Nothing works 100% of the time, but the more we or the user understands the product and its positives and it's negatives the more we can make it positive. Testing not only shows the product but also shows us how we can become better. I learn more from the negatives and the things that go wrong than I do with the things that always go right. I have a situation right now where our Deer dry attractants have a very high positive results from the sites, with 200 to 300 reactions in 3 to 5 days.( Digging) yet one site the deer just stand 6 to 10 feet away from the dig. This is driving me nuts and I have to figure out why this site the deer are reacting this way. The product has 20 years behind it with high positive reactions, I know it works,, but I have to find out why it is not working here, yet when I think about it, It is working !!! The deer are still coming to it, just not doing what I expect. The deer hunter would still see the deer and can kill a deer there, but the deer hunter will in fact say it is not working because they are not digging it!!!!! They may kill a deer there but the product did not work!!!!!! I learn nothing new from the positive sites but I will learn a great amount of new information from this negative site when it is all said and done. And this will help me to understand more not only on how to use the product and where but how I can instruct my customers on how and where to use the products. I believe knowing where, when and why a product is not going to work is more important than anything else, because nothing is 100%

I never understood testing baits out of season. Like testing fruit baits in the summer for coyote but then trapping them In December.when they are eating meat,not fruit and grasshoppers.

Doesn't matter how good something works for someone else. If it isn't working for the individual using it and we all know good trappers who cant produce on certain products or can make their own and have a much better catch rate. Then the product isn't the "best or greatest". If there were such a thing you wouldn't need all the "proven" products that are out today with many customers continuing to seek out better products. If the product gets them there and it's doing everything it is designed to do, what else can you ask of the product? At what point does the trapper take accountability to promote success in the field? There are folks out there who don't even use bait and lure that out trap many who do.

Thanks for the "Gift" TDHP. Smells like money in the bank.

I have caught fox in the winter on fruit baits. I get fox and coyotes pulling my DP traps out of the ground using fruit baits in the winter. I use strong sweet baits to use as a draw for my snares in the winter for k9 Don't believe me ask Newt and Morgan if I do.

The point is testing in the off season gives the trapper a understanding of animal behavior. not just if the product works the way we want it to. If a certain coyote is coming up to whatever product and standing out front of the set by 24 inches the trapper says the product does not work!!!!! yet the coyote comes in every 3 days to stand in the same place and look and smell. it is working just not the way we think it should. I am putting a blind set in setting a snare or putting a trap at that spot it stands and catching his tail. I ain't got no pride in how I catch him. We forget we are not making these animals do anything other than what they want to do. If they do not want to do it they ain't doing it. It has been said many ways in this post. There is no magic in a bottle or jar. and if the trapper does not know where the animal wants to be and what it wants to do the greatest products will not work!!!! If the trapper is where the animal wants to be and knows what it wants to do then the not so great scent or bait can look great. testing for the lure maker shows if the product will work or not testing out of season and in season shows the maker the different responses the animal will give depending on many different factors. for the trapper that does not make products testing out of season gives them a deeper look at the animal and what they want to do which gives the trapper a deeper understanding of the animal, which makes the trapper more rounded and will give them more catches. Yes bobcat meat works on coyotes LOL

One of my baits uses persimmon oil and they like it even in the middle of january. Indiana for more reference

Just kinda curious....^^^ If a "proven" bait is on the market by a bait maker with decades of knowledge behind their product shouldn't there be no question on whether or not you purchased a "great" scent? Someone with that much knowledge couldn't or wouldn't put together a not so great scent or would they?

Just kinda curious....^^^ If a "proven" bait is on the market by a bait maker with decades of knowledge behind their product shouldn't there be no question on whether or not you purchased a "great" scent? Someone with that much knowledge couldn't or wouldn't put together a not so great scent or would they? [/quote]
From my testing I think there is some validity to that question.

Jonsesie hit the nail on the head. You can learn a ton from testing like where to place the trap where they want to step and see the actual reaction or not. I test new to me stuff in September, if it gets a reaction then it will in November. The best stuff makes them dig and pee..

Tight chains with Grade A fur!

Everything you read about the first white men to go west trapping beaver talks about how fond they were of "spinning tall tales". I don't think that has changed much

X2