Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643825
10/20/19 01:15 AM
10/20/19 01:15 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,686 Champaign County, Ohio.
KeithC
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,686
Champaign County, Ohio.
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If the buyers still have the same need for our furs, this might not be as bad as it first seems. Those using NAFA will just have to use another outlet to get their furs to the buyers.
I don't think any trapper, who knows of this mess, will ship to NAFA this year.
I sadly suspect that the trappers who NAFA owes, will at best likely get a tiny fraction of what they are owed, after a long wait, as NAFA comes out of bankruptcy.
Keith
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: wissmiss]
#6643830
10/20/19 01:41 AM
10/20/19 01:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,928 NY
Canvasback2
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,928
NY
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I am sounding the alarm. Nafa's done. Heard the electricity was shut off. There broke. Can't squeeze blood from a turnip. No money to pay back bad checks either. Where did you hear that?? I don’t think that is 100% true. NAFA is a tough spot now but I honestly believe they are trying their darnedst toget this resolved. As to where the money is and why banks are involved, see my post on another thread about prompt date and buyers accounts not paid in full, etc. If you know all of the facts and understand how the fur auctions operate, you would understand what caused the current situation. [/quote]Here is one of the things that got NAFA in trouble. At every sale there is a prompt date. This is the date that all accounts SHOULD be settled by.
On prompt date (or just before), NAFA pays every shipper that had fur sell at that sale. Shippers are PAID IN FULL.
According to Conditions of Sale for all buyers, if they are unable to pay their account in full by prompt date, they must make a 35% deposit to hold their purchases. Then they have a certain amount of time to make the rest of the payment. They pay interest on the balance they owe.
Many buyers do not pay for their purchases in full be prompt date. They basically finance their purchases through NAFA. This is standard procedure at all fur auction companies.
So let’s look at some numbers - hypothetical numbers for simplicity sake. Keep in mind these are SAMPLE numbers.
NAFA sells 30 million dollars worth of fur at a sale. Assuming there is a 10% sellers commission and no other fees. That means that NAFA owes the shippers 27 million dollars.
Some of the buyers pay their bill in full - say they pay 10 million in full. The other 20 million of sales is financed with a 35% deposit. That works out to 13 million dollars worth of goods that were bought but not fully paid for by the buyers.
But NAFA still has to pay out that 13 million on prompt date. Despite what manymof you think, NAFA doesn’t have that kind of cash sitting around.
This is where the banks come in. NAFA had a long standing agreement with a major bank to cover this extra 13 million that NAFA has to pay out. This arrangement has/had been in place for a number of years. For what ever reason and without notice, after the bank had paid out whatever money NAFA had in their account, the bank said “ Thats It” and they stopped covering/honoring NAFA checks and thatnis why shippers checks bounced.
NAFA is working tirelessly with other banks to come up with a new arrangement. They are not taking this situation lightly.
No one at NAFA stole your money. They didn’t spend it on fancy cars or luxury vacations. They had the rug pulled out from under them by their bank.
A lot of you still won’t understand the entire situation but it is as I’ve explained above.
NOTE - I am not a NAFA employee. I am a long time customer that is as concerned about this as all of you. [quote] . Wissmiss: You gave a good explanation of how things work with NAFA. But, having been to many auctions through the years, whether it be Real Estate, Estate auctions, or Fur Auctions; there are a few important things I have learned. 1. Nothing sold at an auction is to leave the auction site , until paid for in full. When NAFA sold the furs to the winning bidders, did those bidders take possession of those furs prior to paying for them in full ? 2. Since NAFA buyers finance their fur purchases through NAFA, and the bank that worked with NAFA pulled the plug with the financing; how is NAFA going to get those furs back from the buyers, assuming the buyers already have the furs in their possession ? 3. The financing part: Those buyers should have come to the NAFA auction with their own financing already in place. Not expect NAFA to do it. 4, If NAFA still has furs left unsold in their auction house, is there any recourse for the Trappers and Fur buyers that shipped furs to NAFA , to get them returned if worst case happens that NAFA is unable to secure financing ?
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: wissmiss]
#6643831
10/20/19 01:44 AM
10/20/19 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047 Iowa
mink99
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,047
Iowa
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I have not heard that NAFA is actually in bankruptcy. They are still trying to work this out.
To say that NAFA is done. That NAFA is bankrupt. Is only adding fuel to the fire.
I for one am willing to give them more time to work this out. And yes, i do “have skin in the game.”. I will gladly eat crow if what I am saying is wrong. But to answer where I heard this from, well, I basically heard this from nafa.
ITA, NTA, FTA
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643836
10/20/19 02:19 AM
10/20/19 02:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700 north Idaho
wissmiss
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
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1. Goods do not leave the NAFA warehouse until they are paid for in full. That is in the conditions of sale. I have no idea if they make exceptions to that or not. I know of in most cases, the goods sit there until they are paid for. And the buyers are charged interest and some times storage. 2. The unpaid for pelts are still at a NAFA facility. At some point they can be reoffered for sale but since this has all happened fairly recently and if the buyer has paid a deposit, NAFA is obligated to hold those unpaid for goods as per the condition of sale. They can’t just decide on the spur of the moment to resell them. 3. As far as financing goes, remember that many of these buyers are from countries other than the US or Canada. Countries such as Russia, China, Korea, Greece. Maybe it is easier for them to finance through NAFA than it is through an instruction in their country. 4. I don’t know the answer to that question. In the case of dealer goods that aren’t intersorted,it should be fairly easy to return them. In the case of intetsorted goods, since everything is bar coded, it would be possible to figure out which pelts belong to which shipper. Figuring that out would be tedious and time consuming but it could be done. IF in fact NAFA is done, then the courts will step in and they most likely will have the final say as to what happens to the unsold inventory. In theory, those pelts belong to the shipper. Who knows how the courts will see it. Mink99 - guess I must have talked to a different person at NAFA. What I heard is that they are still trying to work things out with a different bank. I like what I heard better than what you heard.
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643850
10/20/19 04:29 AM
10/20/19 04:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,099 WI - Wisconsin
AJE
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,099
WI - Wisconsin
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I wonder if the details of how NAFA operates is similar to FHA's rules and procedures
Last edited by AJE; 10/20/19 04:29 AM.
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: AJE]
#6643852
10/20/19 04:33 AM
10/20/19 04:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700 north Idaho
wissmiss
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,700
north Idaho
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I wonder if the details of how NAFA operates is similar to FHA's rules and procedures
Probably. Which of FHA’s rules / procedures are you referring to?
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643865
10/20/19 06:11 AM
10/20/19 06:11 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635 Pottawatamie co. IA
LLtrapper
"The Coon Combine"
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"The Coon Combine"
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
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And even now some will defend their actions as though they did nothing wrong. Anyone who sends fur to them now will be shown to be a fool. Those defending them almost certainly did not get a bad check..LLL
Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643872
10/20/19 06:48 AM
10/20/19 06:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888
williamsburg ks
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If they cant get a line of credit its because banks don't like the way they are doing business. Banks are in business to loan money. Usury is their business plan. If they don't make loans they don't profit. Like every other business they exist only to profit. Banks WANT to loan money. I don't understand why an auction company would be in the loan business. If that isn't a risky endeavor what is? Loan money that was borrowed from another business?
It is pretty simple to me. We are all human and make mistakes. I hope NAFA gets lined back out. I hope they have some better ideas now. I am losing optimism though. What happened to "you will get your money in OCT".?
How do you charge buyer commissions, seller commissions, drumming fees, magazine fees, and c.i.t.e.s. fees but still can't pay your bills. All this talk about its other peoples fault is nonsense. NAFA is responsible for poor business decisions. Not a bank, not a mink farm or anyone else.
It is entirely possible that the bank pulled the rug because NAFA is in the fur business. Something many folks consider immoral and there is a combined effort among many banks to quit doing business with firearm and or fur related business. Plenty will though. If the rug were pulled because of moral belief there would still be banks more than happy to extend a line of credit so long as they thought profit would be the result.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643874
10/20/19 06:53 AM
10/20/19 06:53 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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worst thing you can do is lie to me,even if you consider it just bending the truth,i don't.
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643980
10/20/19 09:39 AM
10/20/19 09:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076 Maine
mainer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
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Like danny said, there are troubling reasons why the banks are avoiding or have bailed on NAFA. Those reasons are likely unique to NAFA's financial situation and not the fur industry as a whole. So far, we have no indication that NAFA's problems are anything more than NAFA's problems. In other words, it's not good news for the industry because it may lose a major player, but that does not -- by itself -- signify the fur industry is following the same path.
By the way, the bankruptcy rumors over the summer might have had more legs to them than we thought.
Last edited by mainer; 10/20/19 09:42 AM.
"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound." Jim Beckwourth (1856)
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6643998
10/20/19 10:00 AM
10/20/19 10:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,834 KY.usa
rex123
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,834
KY.usa
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It has been said that furs do not leave the NAFA warehouse until they are paid for.So they either were paid for YOUR furs and something happened to the money or they have YOUR furs and under the state of affairs should send them back.Years ago I worked in the auction trade and nobody left with the merchandise until it was paid for.
Last edited by rex123; 10/20/19 10:01 AM.
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Dean Chapel]
#6644144
10/20/19 01:11 PM
10/20/19 01:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,487 Eastern Shore of Maryland
bad karma
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,487
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Have you ever read a NAFA report that wasn't total BS? It's not called NAFAese for nothing. "Increased clearance at new levels"= we dumped your fur for nothing, but we still get the drumming fee. And we'll make you an offer you can't refuse- the NAFA magazine. Never and I have been at this for a long time. NAFA could make $ teaching politicians how to lie out both sides of their mouth at the same time.
Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Actor]
#6644152
10/20/19 01:26 PM
10/20/19 01:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
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NAFA does not lose in your above deal They win. They get to keep the 35% and sell the fur again for 100% of it's value.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: Prn]
#6644195
10/20/19 02:48 PM
10/20/19 02:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,562 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,562
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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Interesting how it went from a simple misunderstanding during a bank switch, to now they are looking for financing. This doesn't look promising. PANTS ON FIRE !!!! NAFA!!!! w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: NEW ... NAFA Letter ... Just received.
[Re: wr otis]
#6644196
10/20/19 02:49 PM
10/20/19 02:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 350 ohio morrow co
Rifle 1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 350
ohio morrow co
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Wonder how many dealers are going to be in a bind over this. Read Terry Manleys post on facebook this morning. Sad
getting ready for 53th season
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