No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 11 of 12 1 2 9 10 11 12
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6646904
10/23/19 01:19 PM
10/23/19 01:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
NAFA may have folded, just like ALC. SAGA may have just bought up their competitor like NAFA bought up ALC. The beat goes on! frown


Who is John Galt?
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6646908
10/23/19 01:24 PM
10/23/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,721
South Central Nebraska age 71
tmrschessie Offline
trapper
tmrschessie  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,721
South Central Nebraska age 71
To: NAFA Customer

Saga Furs and North American Fur Auctions (NAFA) have today entered into an agreement to work together to secure a stable selling channel for NAFA’s customers both in Europe and North America. Utilizing its strong financial position, Saga Furs will start financing some of NAFA’s fur producing customers with immediate effect. The agreement also contemplates the integration of Saga Furs and NAFA solicitation teams in order to better serve the needs of the fur producing community in both Europe and North America.

With this agreement, Saga Furs and NAFA seek to address recent producer and market concerns as well as to provide fur producers with a solid platform through Saga Furs in which to sell their 2019 production. The combined offering will create the most versatile collection of different fur types, including mink, fox, finnraccoon and wild fur, available in the international market.

Further details about this agreement will be announced as they are finalized.


Sincerely,


Douglas Lawson
President & CEO

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6646919
10/23/19 01:32 PM
10/23/19 01:32 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
P
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"
pcr2  Offline
"Twerker"
P

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
travesty for wild fur









Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6646927
10/23/19 01:36 PM
10/23/19 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
M
mainer Offline
trapper
mainer  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
Originally Posted by thedude055
Originally Posted by mainer
It means the Europeans will have more control than they did before over North American fur markets. This is not good news for North American trappers.


Is that better or worse for North American Trappers than NAFA Folding? I am new to this side of things so I am just trying to learn by reading and asking.

Short term it stops NAFA's hemorrhaging. Long term it means European interests will have greater leverage in how fur producers here in the United States and Canada trap their fur.

Canadian trappers have followed the European dictates of AIHTS (Agreement on International Humane Trapping Standards) in full. So the sway of European influence is pretty much set for them. The United States did not sign on to that agreement in full, only in principle, which means trappers in the United States were able to maintain independence from the European Union's attempt to regulate fur production globally.

For a brief moment, I had this ridiculous fantasy that trappers in the United States were in a position to perhaps negotiate a better standing within the NAFA hierarchy, giving US trappers more than just a token representation in that corporate body. I know, how naive.....

Last edited by mainer; 10/23/19 01:48 PM.

"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6646931
10/23/19 01:38 PM
10/23/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,293
PA
L
lumberjack391 Offline
trapper
lumberjack391  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,293
PA
Boco and the Beav will carpool to the NAFA stop. Anybody else want a ride?

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: lumberjack391] #6646938
10/23/19 01:42 PM
10/23/19 01:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by lumberjack391
Boco and the Beav will carpool to the NAFA stop. Anybody else want a ride?


If they let me out, at the ferry terminal in Helsinki, I'm in. I want to take the ferry over to St Petersburg.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647016
10/23/19 03:40 PM
10/23/19 03:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,895
NNY
0
080808 Offline
trapper
080808  Offline
trapper
0

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,895
NNY
yotetrapper 30. Tonight I’ll send you a pm.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647105
10/23/19 05:41 PM
10/23/19 05:41 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,686
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Online content
trapper
KeithC  Online Content
trapper
K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,686
Champaign County, Ohio.
What we need is several groups of knowledgeable American fur buyers to come together with enough capital and experience to court foreign and American garment manufacturers. We need more competition to drive prices up and to get more people pushing uses for fur. If we can get more people to buy fur garments, the number of new people buying should gain momentum as more people are exposed to the beauty, durability and feel of fur.

Keith

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647208
10/23/19 08:17 PM
10/23/19 08:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,051
WI
N
nimzy Offline
trapper
nimzy  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,051
WI
Is the truth starting to rear it’s ugly head?

Seems we are moving even more towards ranch influences.

Did FHA have success withSAGA?

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647213
10/23/19 08:28 PM
10/23/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,413
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,413
williams,mn
There is a lot of doom and gloom types on here. I think I'll charge recklessly forward and crush Europe, along with the middle east.

With my muskrat trapping.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647220
10/23/19 08:41 PM
10/23/19 08:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,462
Oregon
H
H2ORat Online content
trapper
H2ORat  Online Content
trapper
H

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,462
Oregon
I'm with you Les let's take them out of the picture, but I'm into nutria.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647226
10/23/19 08:52 PM
10/23/19 08:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,514
Orergon
A
alaska viking Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
alaska viking  Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
A

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,514
Orergon
I started trapping in the mid-70's. Prices weren't great, but better than the minimum wage of $2.15 per hour. I was in central Oregon, at the time. A year or two after my start, coyotes went sky high. I was a better shot than a coyote trapper, but managed to catch a few, too. I sold to a fellow in Salem, Oregon. Small potatoes, but made great money, for the day.
I heard rumors of ranch fox and mink, but never thought "they" might effect my bottom line.
For the last couple of decades, ranch fur has dictated the bottom line of every wild fur producer. Once in a boom, for the better, but for the most part, not.
The story that "we" need "them" is non-sense. Trappers produce millions of pelts annually. Lotting by professionals assures like furs for sewing, and the market can absorb them, annually.
Ranched goods, easily produced, uniformly colored, sized, and packaged has been the demise of wild fur.
Mc'coats are NOT beneficial for what we collectively do. The idea that making a luxery item "affordable" to the masses has failed historically, and has done so, again.


Just doing what I want now.

Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647230
10/23/19 08:55 PM
10/23/19 08:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
Well said AV.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: alaska viking] #6647232
10/23/19 08:56 PM
10/23/19 08:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,120
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
Hodagtrapper Offline
Muskrat Master
Hodagtrapper  Offline
Muskrat Master

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,120
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
Originally Posted by alaska viking
I started trapping in the mid-70's. Prices weren't great, but better than the minimum wage of $2.15 per hour. I was in central Oregon, at the time. A year or two after my start, coyotes went sky high. I was a better shot than a coyote trapper, but managed to catch a few, too. I sold to a fellow in Salem, Oregon. Small potatoes, but made great money, for the day.
I heard rumors of ranch fox and mink, but never thought "they" might effect my bottom line.
For the last couple of decades, ranch fur has dictated the bottom line of every wild fur producer. Once in a boom, for the better, but for the most part, not.
The story that "we" need "them" is non-sense. Trappers produce millions of pelts annually. Lotting by professionals assures like furs for sewing, and the market can absorb them, annually.
Ranched goods, easily produced, uniformly colored, sized, and packaged has been the demise of wild fur.
Mc'coats are NOT beneficial for what we collectively do. The idea that making a luxery item "affordable" to the masses has failed historically, and has done so, again.


Never thought of it like that but it makes sense!

Chris


>>In God we trust<<
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647233
10/23/19 08:57 PM
10/23/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
I just had an idea to boost the domestic fur market-put fur trim on hoodies for the gangstas-coon or black bear.Keep them warm and hide their face at night while being blingy and fashionable at the same time.

Last edited by Boco; 10/23/19 08:58 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647234
10/23/19 08:58 PM
10/23/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,081
montana
R
red mt Offline
trapper
red mt  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,081
montana

Short term it stops NAFA's hemorrhaging. Long term it means European interests will have greater leverage in how fur producers here in the United States and Canada trap their fur.

Canadian trappers have followed the European dictates of AIHTS (Agreement on International Humane Trapping Standards) in full. So the sway of European influence is pretty much set for them. The United States did not sign on to that agreement in full, only in principle, which means trappers in the United States were able to maintain independence from the European Union's attempt to regulate fur production globally.

For a brief moment, I had this ridiculous fantasy that trappers in the United States were in a position to perhaps negotiate a better standing within the NAFA hierarchy, giving US trappers more than just a token representation in that corporate body. I know, how naive.....[/quote]

Only if we let them


Kenneth schoening
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647240
10/23/19 09:04 PM
10/23/19 09:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
We use the most effective traps to trap fur.Europe put no traps on the aihts list(well maybe one or two from germany submitted to the trap testing facility in alberta and passed by Canadians)and does no trap testing as far as I know.
All the traps on the aihts are certified in Canada to our trapping standards by Canadians who spearheded humane trap development back in the 70's.Europe didn't get on board until the 90's.They didn't know or like the fact that we already had developed humane traps and had the data to prove it.
Humane trapping and improved traps and standards were developed by trappers in North America,not Europeans.

Last edited by Boco; 10/23/19 09:07 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647276
10/23/19 09:49 PM
10/23/19 09:49 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
P
pcr2 Offline
"Twerker"
pcr2  Offline
"Twerker"
P

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
long live the queen









Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647280
10/23/19 09:58 PM
10/23/19 09:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
M
mainer Offline
trapper
mainer  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,076
Maine
Here's a press release from the European Commission in 1997 from a chap who appealed to his colleagues to support the AIHTS agreement rather than an outright ban on furs. It's long -- very long -- but gives a good sense of the sentiment behind the entire AIHTS endeavor from the beginning. The Europeans were involved in this long before the 1990s. I've highlighted a few of the salient points.

Quote
Brussels, June 19, 1997

Animal trapping standards

Statement by Sir Leon Brittan An international agreement to ban the worst "leg-hold" traps and enforce humane standards on the rest will do much more for animal welfare than a mere ban on fur imports, says Sir Leon Brittan, EU Trade Commissioner, as EU Ministers prepare for a decision today. The first-ever international trapping standard, negotiated with Canada and Russia, would dramatically cut cruelty to wild animals by forcing Canada and Russia - and the EU itself - to abolish the worst forms of trapping, on pain of sanctions if they fail to do so. Trappers in the remotest corners of Siberia and the Yukon are unlikely to change their age-old ways unless obliged to do so by their own governments, and helped in the process. A mere import ban may have instant appeal, but it will could prove unenforceable, and will send the fur business in search of lucrative markets elsewhere. It may also put Europe on a collision course with its trading partners.

"European Ministers face a major decision at the Environment Council today or tomorrow on the question of curbing the use of cruel animal traps. The issue will have immense repercussions on animal welfare, the fur business and the international trading system. It is a highly emotive issue, and understandably so. But it has become unnecessarily polarised, because it is not an argument between those who want to advance the cause of animal welfare and those who do not. More light and less heat are needed in the public debate if Europe's Ministers are to take the right decision.

There is no doubt in my mind that trapping can be a cruel business, and that Europe has a duty to improve animal welfare. Indeed, opposition to the killing of animals at all is a perfectly respectable position to hold. If you believe that Europe should ban the fur trade on principle, do not read on. But if you believe that it is more realistic for Europe to do all within its power to make the fur trade a far less cruel and more humane business, then the only question is how best to achieve that.

Two of the options facing Ministers are as follows: the first is to ban all imports into Europe of furs from countries where "leg-hold" traps are used until trapping methods are changed. The second is to approve a set of rules that would force all trappers to use only the most humane methods and abandon the rest, and face penalties if they do not.


An import ban has instant appeal. It is a gesture of defiance that would make many animal-lovers, who rightly despise cruelty, feel good. But a gesture is essentially all it is. It will damage the livelihood of remote communities, many of them indigenous tribes in Russia and Canada, and will compound the huge social problems they already face. It will not persuade them to improve their traps or abandon trapping altogether. Communities that have depended on trapping for centuries will go in search of lucrative markets elsewhere, and they will almost certainly find them.

Even those opposing the fur trade on principle should recognise, therefore, that an EU import ban on furs coming from countries that allow the use of the leghold trap does not guarantee any improvement in animal welfare.

The second option - a set of rules to improve trapping standards - has one major advantage over an import ban: it has the backing of the host governments themselves, and is therefore enforceable. Trappers spread across Siberia or the Yukon are not going to change their age-old habits without tough enforcement laws, cooperation and support from their own authorities.

The European Commission, at the request of the fifteen EU governments, has negotiated an international trapping standard with Canada and Russia, two of the main trapping nations. We are continuing to negotiate with the United States.

This agreement will cover all mechanical traps for restraining or killing animals. An import ban, on the other hand, would only cover the leg-hold trap which sadly does not have a monopoly on animal cruelty. If the agreement is approved by European Ministers, it would be an ambitious step towards binding, international, scientifically based standards on humane trapping which currently do not exist. The International Standards Organisation has tried for ten years to define such norms, without success.

Canada will be bound, under international law, to ban for ever the cruel "steel-jawed" leg trap immediately for seven species - beaver, marten, otter, fisher, ermine, muskrat and badger - and in three years for five larger animals - coyote, wolf, lynx, bobcat and racoon. Russia will effectively be required to ban all leg traps by the end of the century. All other traps must meet strictly defined pain thresholds and killing times set by independent scientific experts if they continue to be used. This will reduce animal pain and suffering substantially, if not completely. The rules can also be toughened further on the basis of future research after three years. All traps that fail to meet the standard must be phased out by law over a specific time period. If the governments fail to act, they too will face international arbitration which could lead to trade sanctions. Going into these details in an agreement is a gruesome business, but it will have a practical effect. It will work better than any import ban because it tackles the problem at source - by improving the trap itself - rather than at Europe's borders, when it is too late.

The international agreement will force Europe to put its own house in order, too, while an import ban will not. Farmers in this country trap millions of animals a year to control pests. There is virtually nothing - besides a widely flouted ban on leg-hold traps - that actually obliges them to kill as humanely as possible. This agreement would apply the same rigorous criteria to all mechanical traps throughout Britain and the rest of Europe.

An import ban would almost certainly be attacked as illegal under world trade rules. This may cut little ice with animal activists, but if the European Union was accused at the World Trade Organisation of restricting imports unfairly and it lost the case, as past jurisprudence suggests could well happen, we would have to repeal the ban. If not, some of our major trading partners would be free to ban Europe's exports of other products or demand hefty compensation. The credibility of Europe's campaign to stop other countries penalising our trade on spurious grounds would be severely impaired, and the innocent victims in this affair - the animals themselves - would have won nothing".


"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: Latest from nafa [Re: mud] #6647309
10/23/19 10:32 PM
10/23/19 10:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,519
james bay frontierOnt.
All bunk^^^^ we still use foothold traps.
That may have been the Europeans plan but they were hoodwinked since we were far ahead of them with humane trapping standards and they did not know.I have spoken with people at the FIC that were involved,and it was quite entertaining how the Europeans thought we would never meet humane standards and could ban import,when we already had surpassed their ideas of a humane standard.
We also protected our snares thru a derogation.
Way back in 1981 when the ota was working on humane trapping improvements,at the university of guelph with dr Fred Gilbert, Alcide Girou the president at that time made his famous speech to the trappers-"We trappers will move ahead on improving our trapping systems and methods.We wont allow governments or anti trapping groups to set the agenda.We will not allow anyone to dictate to us what we can do as trappersand we will retain all devices we currently use until the day comes when we have better traps more effective in both humaneness and efficiency."
What a great man and foresight Alcide had back then and we were well ahead of the Europeans to their dismay when they tried to ban fur imports years later.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Page 11 of 12 1 2 9 10 11 12
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread