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Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: hippie] #6654142
10/31/19 05:36 PM
10/31/19 05:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by hippie
I think the ones talking a a coup are talking about the ABC agencies that that tried to undermine the election?


Your right, totally separate thing. My mistake. Y’all can return to your regularly scheduled programming.


-Goofy-
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6654165
10/31/19 05:55 PM
10/31/19 05:55 PM

J
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by Furvor
Somewhere I read "A house divided against itself shall fall." IMHO what's going on in the House is illegal and perhaps treason. U.S. military is obligated to obey the President, rightly so in our form of government.


Why do you think a constitutionally enumerated process is illegal and treasonous? Keep in mind the Constitution defines treason as "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." I'm genuinely curious why some think this to be illegal and/or treasonous.

Why people consider this treasonous is that this whole mess is to overthrow(coup) the will /vote of the people. From the transcript of the call it is obvious that no crime was committed. However, you are correct in that what the House is pulling is constitutional.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654625
11/01/19 07:37 AM
11/01/19 07:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline OP
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I read yesterday where people are being killed in South Africa, issued a number to receive food and water in Venezuela and things are so good here we can spend millions of dollars because we don’t like it when someone hurls insults back at us.


-Goofy-
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654869
11/01/19 03:32 PM
11/01/19 03:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 289
Arizona
S
Starbits Offline
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Arizona
As far as the military goes our oath is not to the Commander in Chief nor to Congress, it is to support and defend the constitution of the United States. What is going on now is purely political using the constitution as a pretext for attacking a political opponent. Since it is not an attack on the constitution, the military's role is to stay out of it.

Last edited by Starbits; 11/01/19 03:33 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6654898
11/01/19 04:37 PM
11/01/19 04:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
coup
/ko͞o/
noun
noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coup d'états; plural noun: coups d'état
1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

"he was overthrown in an army coup"

This impeachment is not sudden, violent, or illegal. Impeachment (and removal) is a completely legal Constitutional procedure. It's basically a political process. It's certainly not anything like a criminal process. Per the Constitution, the house has the sole power of impeachment, and they get to make the rules as to how it goes. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is not the same thing as "felonies and misdemeanors", it basically means whatever the house decides it means. It's an old-timey phrase that basically refers to a person in a position of power abusing their power.

Info on impeachment and high crimes and misdemeanors



A coup d'état (/ˌkuː deɪˈtɑː/ (About this soundlisten); French: [ku deta]), also known by its German name putsch (/pʊtʃ/), or simply as a coup, is the overthrow of an existing government by non-democratic means; typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a dictator, the military, or a political faction

Doesn't have to be violent! Although, there have been several US citizens who have been illegally searched and seized to the point they have lossed everything. Not to mention that these treasonous acts of the Democraticarty will lead to civil war (your violence doesn't always have to come 1st!). But,. If you take into consideration all the people organizations such as Antifa has hurt? Then you all ready have violence sparked by Democrat representation.

The Democrats have been attempting to undermine the will of the people and this duely ELECTED president since day one!

No crime that has been committed! Only undue investigation and harassment by the Democratic party of not only ther president but of those around him and others who actively fright them.

Here in the USA we are innocent till proven guilty, have the right to face our accusers, abide by our Constitution and rule of law.

The Democratic party has completely undermined all that. They are acting separate and above our rule law and Constitution. Treasonous!

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654901
11/01/19 04:39 PM
11/01/19 04:39 PM
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Indiana
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Indiana
You have one political (faction) undermining our Constitution, rule of law, will of voters, and a duely ELECTED president since day 1!

It's an attempt at a coup!

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654904
11/01/19 04:46 PM
11/01/19 04:46 PM
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Indiana
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Indiana
Colour revolution (sometimes called the coloured revolution) is a term that was widely used by worldwide media[1] to describe various related movements that developed in several countries of the former Soviet Union and the Balkans during the early 2000s. The term has also been applied to a number of revolutions elsewhere, including in the Middle East. Some observers (such as Justin Raimondo and Michael Lind) have called the events a revolutionary wave, the origins of which can be traced back to the 1986 People Power Revolution (also known as the Yellow Revolution) in the Philippines.

Participants in the colour revolutions have mostly used nonviolent resistance, also called civil resistance. Such methods as demonstrations, strikes and interventions have been intended protest against governments seen as corrupt and/or authoritarian and to advocate democracy and they have also created strong pressure for change. These movements generally adopted a specific colour or flower as their symbol. The colour revolutions are notable for the important role of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and particularly student activists in organising creative non-violent resistance.

Such movements have had a measure of success as for example in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia's Bulldozer Revolution (2000), in Georgia's Rose Revolution (2003) and in Ukraine's Orange Revolution (2004). In most but not all cases, massive street protests followed disputed elections or requests for fair elections and led to the resignation or overthrow of leaders considered by their opponents to be authoritarian. Some events have been called "colour revolutions", but are different from the above cases in certain basic characteristics. Examples include Lebanon's Cedar Revolution (2005) and Kuwait's Blue Revolution (2005).

Government figures in Russia, such as Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, stated that colour revolutions are externally fuelled acts with a clear goal to influence the internal affairs that destabilise economy,[2] conflict with the law and represent a new form of warfare.[3][4] President Vladimir Putin said that Russia must prevent colour revolutions: "We see what tragic consequences the wave of so-called colour revolutions led to. For us this is a lesson and a warning. We should do everything necessary so that nothing similar ever happens in Russia".[5]

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654912
11/01/19 04:50 PM
11/01/19 04:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,269
Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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Purple Edit
Although purple has some older associations with monarchism, it is the most prominent colour that is not traditionally connected to any major contemporary ideology. As such, it is sometimes used to represent a mix of different ideologies, or new protest movements that are critical of all previously-existing parties.

Purple is often associated with feminism and when combined with black, is often used to represent anarcha-feminism.
In Brazil, purple is the color associated with some progressive liberal movements such as Rede Sustentabilidade, Cidadania and Livres. This color is chosen because those movements consider themselves to be mixing the best ideas of the left (associated with red) and the right (associated with blue).
In Europe, purple tends to be used for movements, parties and governments that are neither clearly right nor left.
It has been used to represent the Purple governments of Belgium and the Netherlands, formed by an alliance of red social-democratic and blue liberal parties.
The pan-European movement Volt Europa has adopted purple as its main party colour since its foundation, symbolising dynamic youthfulness and transparency.
In Italy, purple has been adopted by anti-Silvio Berlusconi protesters (see Purple People) as an alternative from other colours and political parties.
In Ireland, purple is the colour of the Social Democrats which supports a Nordic model of social democracy.
In Mexico, purple is the colour of the Humanist Party.
In Poland, purple is the colour of Partia Razem, a new left-wing social-democratic political party formed in 2015.
In Romania, purple was used by the populist and eurosceptic People's Party – Dan Diaconescu, active between 2011–2015.
In Spain, purple is the colour of Podemos, a left-wing party that emerged from the 15-M Movement protests.
Purple is the colour of the Swedish Pirate Party and Icelandic Pirate Party, as well as several international Pirate parties share the colour along with black.
In the United Kingdom, purple is associated with Euroscepticism, being the official colours of the UK Independence Party (along with yellow) and the minor party Veritas.
In the United States, purple is the official colour of the Veterans Party of America which is a centrist constitutional based party with a mix of the dominant two parties' colours, as well as the colour of the Purple Heart Medal.
Also the color of social democratic Vermont Progressive Party.[dubious – discuss]
Purple is also unofficially used in the United States to denote a "swing state" (i.e. one contested frequently between the Republican Party, whose unofficial colour is red; and the Democratic Party, whose unofficial colour is blue). Purple is also used by centrists to represent a combination of beliefs belonging to the Republicans (red) and the Democrats (blue). It has also been used to reference Purple America, a term used in contrast to "blue" or "red", noting the electoral differences nationwide are observed more on discrepancies instead of unity (see red states and blue states).
In Uruguay, purple is the colour of the social democratic Independent Party.
In Venezuela, purple is use by socialist People's Electoral Movement.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654919
11/01/19 04:56 PM
11/01/19 04:56 PM
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Indiana
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Recently one of the trolls who visits my website on occasion presented a rather unique interpretation of why the Kasama Project came to an end, differing with my analysis that it was a surfeit of Maoist sectarianism that was the cause.

Interestingly, the site flded [sic] quickly after the trolls began making connection between Kasama, BLM and George Soros. It’s interesting to note Kasama’s involvement with Occupy which is another Soros project. This helps to confirm the trolls assertion that Kasama (and RCP) are Soros fronts.

Could Occupy Wall Street have been a “Soros project”? Well, the first thing that came up when I googled Soros and Occupy Wall Street was an article in RT.com titled “Is George Soros behind Occupy Wall Street?” dated October 14, 2011 and strongly implying that the answer was yes. Meanwhile, Russia Insider went one step further. It published an article titled “George Soros: The Ugly Face Behind Many Protest Movements” that posed the question:

What do the “Arab Spring”, the “Maidan Protests”, “Black Lives Matter”, “Occupy Wall Street”, “Open Borders” and many other movements have in common? George Soros.

Further research revealed that among the other schemes Soros has hatched deep within the bowels of his Open Society, which for websites such as Russia Insider assumes the character of the villain’s lair in a James Bond movie, is the protests that took place in the USA on January 21. It was, as conspiracist Michel Chossudovsky par excellence put it, a “colored revolution”. He repeats the arguments of the Russian Insider as if they had been written by the same person:

What is at stake is a “color revolution” Made in America which is marked by fundamental rivalries within the US establishment, namely the clash between competing corporate factions, each of which is intent upon exerting control over the incoming US presidency.

The OTPOR-CANVAS-CIA model is nonetheless relevant. Several foundations involved in funding color revolutions internationally are involved in funding the anti-Trump campaign.

Moreover, while CANVAS’ mandate is to oversee “color revolutions” internationally, it also has links with a number of NGOs currently involved in the anti-Trump campaign including The Occupy Wall Street Movement (OWS). OWS launched by Adbusters was funded via the Tides Foundation which in turn is funded by a number of corporate foundations and charities, including the Ford Foundation, Gates Foundation and the Open Society Institute. Ford is known to have historical links to US intelligence.

Iran’s PressTV was in sync with Professor

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654921
11/01/19 05:01 PM
11/01/19 05:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,233
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Of course it's not a actually a coup, that word is just a figure of speech in its current context.
In case you haven't been paying attention the Democrat party is trying to overthrow a legitimately elected president by any means possible


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: brianmall] #6654924
11/01/19 05:05 PM
11/01/19 05:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,771
Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by brianmall
Originally Posted by loosegoose
coup
/ko͞o/
noun
noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coup d'états; plural noun: coups d'état
1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

"he was overthrown in an army coup"

This impeachment is not sudden, violent, or illegal. Impeachment (and removal) is a completely legal Constitutional procedure. It's basically a political process. It's certainly not anything like a criminal process. Per the Constitution, the house has the sole power of impeachment, and they get to make the rules as to how it goes. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is not the same thing as "felonies and misdemeanors", it basically means whatever the house decides it means. It's an old-timey phrase that basically refers to a person in a position of power abusing their power.

Info on impeachment and high crimes and misdemeanors



A coup d'état (/ˌkuː deɪˈtɑː/ (About this soundlisten); French: [ku deta]), also known by its German name putsch (/pʊtʃ/), or simply as a coup, is the overthrow of an existing government by non-democratic means; typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a dictator, the military, or a political faction

Doesn't have to be violent! Although, there have been several US citizens who have been illegally searched and seized to the point they have lossed everything. Not to mention that these treasonous acts of the Democraticarty will lead to civil war (your violence doesn't always have to come 1st!). But,. If you take into consideration all the people organizations such as Antifa has hurt? Then you all ready have violence sparked by Democrat representation.

The Democrats have been attempting to undermine the will of the people and this 1. duely ELECTED president since day one!

2. No crime that has been committed! Only undue investigation and harassment by the Democratic party of not only ther president but of those around him and others who actively fright them.

3. Here in the USA we are innocent till proven guilty, have the right to face our accusers, abide by our Constitution and rule of law.

The Democratic party has completely undermined all that. 4. They are acting separate and above our rule law and Constitution. Treasonous!


1. Bill Clinton was also duly elected. Just because a president legitimately won an election does not mean that they can't be elected.
2. Only an investigation can determine if high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed. (although I'd agree with you, I don't think anything fishy happened.)
3. That applies to criminal procedures, not political procedures. Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process.
4. The constitution gives a definition of treason. The founders put that definition in there because they didn't want people declaring any act they didn't agree with to be treasonous, the way the british did. Acting separate and above our rule of law and the Constitution does not fit that definition. Also, impeachment is perfectly within the law and spelled out in the Constitution.

Last edited by loosegoose; 11/01/19 05:11 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654925
11/01/19 05:07 PM
11/01/19 05:07 PM
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Indiana
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brianmall Offline
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[Linked Image]


The entire Democratic party at one event wore little purple accessories on their outer wear. Wasn't a coincidence!

Also some RHINOs wore them. This is what scares me about this impeachment thing. These traitors will side with the Democrats when it comes to brass tax in Senate!!

Establishment
AKA: swamp

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654928
11/01/19 05:11 PM
11/01/19 05:11 PM
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brianmall Offline
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Lol

And no

The house doesn't get to decide what is a crime or not!

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: brianmall] #6654933
11/01/19 05:18 PM
11/01/19 05:18 PM
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Beatrice, NE
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loosegoose Offline
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Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by brianmall
Lol

And no

The house doesn't get to decide what is a crime or not!


Yes, actually, they do.
“The House of Representatives...shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.” Article I, Section 2, Clause 5


The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. Article 2, Section 4

High crimes and misdemeanors involves things that may or may not be an actual crime. It's an old timey phrase referring to abusing a position of power. It's things that only people in positions of power (High people) can do.
Again, impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process, so the same standards don't apply.


High crimes and misdemeanors explained

Last edited by loosegoose; 11/01/19 05:19 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6654935
11/01/19 05:23 PM
11/01/19 05:23 PM
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Indiana
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by brianmall
[quote=loosegoose]coup
/ko͞o/
noun
noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coup d'états; plural noun: coups d'état
1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

"he was overthrown in an army coup"

This impeachment is not sudden, violent, or illegal. Impeachment (and removal) is a completely legal Constitutional procedure. It's basically a political process. It's certainly not anything like a criminal process. Per the Constitution, the house has the sole power of impeachment, and they get to make the rules as to how it goes. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is not the same thing as "felonies and misdemeanors", it basically means whatever the house decides it means. It's an old-timey phrase that basically refers to a person in a position of power abusing their power.

Info on impeachment and high crimes and misdemeanors



A coup d'état (/ˌkuː deɪˈtɑː/ (About this soundlisten); French: [ku deta]), also known by its German name putsch (/pʊtʃ/), or simply as a coup, is the overthrow of an existing government by non-democratic means; typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a dictator, the military, or a political faction

Doesn't have to be violent! Although, there have been several US citizens who have been illegally searched and seized to the point they have lossed everything. Not to mention that these treasonous acts of the Democraticarty will lead to civil war (your violence doesn't always have to come 1st!). But,. If you take into consideration all the people organizations such as Antifa has hurt? Then you all ready have violence sparked by Democrat representation.

The Democrats have been attempting to undermine the will of the people and this 1. duely ELECTED president since day one!

[/b]


2. No crime that has been committed! Only undue investigation and harassment by the Democratic party of

[b]1. Bill Clinton was also duly elected. Just because a president legitimately won an election does not mean that they can't be elected.

Followed precedent , was allowed trial, was allowed to face accusers, had actually done something wrong that warranted an investigation

2. Only an investigation can determine if high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed. (although I'd agree with you, I don't think anything fishy happened.)

When did we randomly start investigating people here? What crime has Trump comited?

3. That applies to criminal procedures, not political procedures. Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process.

With judicial proceedings,. Meaning ot still needs to adhere to our rule of law! Innocent till proven guilty! Right to face accusers!

This is why they have not held an official inquiry vote yet! Doing so would allow for cross examinations!

4. The constitution gives a definition of treason. The founders put that definition in there because they didn't want people declaring any act they didn't agree with to be treasonous, the way the british did. Acting separate and above our rule of law and the Constitution does not fit that definition. Also, impeachment is perfectly within the law and spelled out in the Constitution.

Which isn't being followed nor adhered to! Constitution that is!


Even though Trump is our President. He is still a citizen!!

Last edited by brianmall; 11/01/19 05:29 PM.
Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654938
11/01/19 05:25 PM
11/01/19 05:25 PM

J
J Staton
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J Staton
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J



If this figure of speech coup is successful in removing a duly elected President and the people revolt in a real coup to remove said perpetrators, on who's side would the military support? That's the real question.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: ] #6654940
11/01/19 05:28 PM
11/01/19 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by J Staton
If this figure of speech coup is successful in removing a duly elected President and the people revolt in a real coup to remove said perpetrators, on who's side would the military support? That's the real question.


I think it will come down to financial gain and loss. People these days don't wanna risk loss.

The masses will simply put head back in sand, shut mouth, and turn blind eye all in the name of free stuff and to keep the stuff they have.

Soldiers included!

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6654943
11/01/19 05:32 PM
11/01/19 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by brianmall
Lol

And no

The house doesn't get to decide what is a crime or not!


Yes, actually, they do.
“The House of Representatives...shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.” Article I, Section 2, Clause 5


The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. Article 2, Section 4

High crimes and misdemeanors involves things that may or may not be an actual crime. It's an old timey phrase referring to abusing a position of power. It's things that only people in positions of power (High people) can do.
Again, impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process, so the same standards don't apply.


High crimes and misdemeanors explained


An election is a political process!

Again

What crime has Trump comited? Where is the proof?

Need these before investigation

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #6654991
11/01/19 06:43 PM
11/01/19 06:43 PM
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You need proof of a crime before you can investigate q crime?!?! Oh boy. I guess I've been confused about this the whole time.

Re: Terminology Matters? [Re: loosegoose] #6655004
11/01/19 06:53 PM
11/01/19 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by loosegoose
You need proof of a crime before you can investigate q crime?!?! Oh boy. I guess I've been confused about this the whole time.



Impeachment isn't only investigation! It's a conviction

But yes

In a lot of these "political" non-crime, crimes. There must 1st be a crime committed.

Otherwise, the opposition party would simply file law suit after law suit in turn preventing president from doing job.

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