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Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6675956
11/26/19 10:34 AM
11/26/19 10:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,142
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,142
Minnesota
I believe it was a 1936 Mn. Hunting regs. (3 small pages) I was shown by an Old timer neighboe. IT said this year It is illegal to take Antelope or Caribou in Mn.

So we had those back when. In what numbers, thats the question. No mention of Muleys.


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Catcollector] #6675963
11/26/19 10:43 AM
11/26/19 10:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,907
Central MN, sort of old
MnMan Offline
trapper
MnMan  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,907
Central MN, sort of old
Originally Posted by Catcollector
The reason there aren't any in MN is because of reciprocity


One was just shot by Wadena this past season and that is in the central part of the state.


I'm just happy to be here! Today I'm as young as I'll ever be and and older than I've ever been before!
Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6675995
11/26/19 11:28 AM
11/26/19 11:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,872
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,872
meadowview, Virginia
I once read that the ancestor of the whitetail was the first deer to cross into NA from Asia. It spread across the continent but populations became separated due to a subsequent ice age. The separate populations mutated into the blacktail and the whitetail. When the ice retreated the whitetail spread back westward, crossbred with the blacktail, and produced the mule deer. I have not been able to find this account again and suspect it is just one theory of how north American deer species came to be what they are today.

One interesting characteristic about the mule deer that I just read is that body size does not vary with environment to any significant degree. This is clearly not the case for whitetail as they follow Bergman's rule, which states that "within a broadly distributed taxonomic clade, populations and species of larger size are found in colder environments, and species of smaller size are found in warmer regions." It suggests to me that whitetail are more adaptable than mule deer and therefore more likely to spread into new and different environments.

Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: 330-Trapper] #6675998
11/26/19 11:32 AM
11/26/19 11:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 333
OR
C
Catcollector Offline
trapper
Catcollector  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 333
OR
Hi 330 a great resource and just all around great guy in MN is Blaine Klemek he works as a biologist for the DNR he is passionate about deer and really any critter he came out to my place I had a 40 acres and he did a story on dark eyed cuckoos for the paper as I had a cuckoo bird nest? I'm like what is that, now I know pretty cool bird really rarely seen but often heard... If anybody knows the ways or wanders and ancestry of MN wildlife it's him... Last I knew he worked the office over by White Earth... If you do, tell him trapper Brad says hi...

Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6676018
11/26/19 12:03 PM
11/26/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,235
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,235
Alaska and Washington State
All the theories as to North American deer origin are subject to change as new DNA evidence is discovered. But, a DNA study I read not too many years ago concluded that the blacktail deer was the original deer in on this continent. Then as the ice sheet came down from the north it resulted in the blacktails of the west coast being separated from their kin to the east which then developed into whitetail and mule deer. I don't recall how the whitetail and mule deer split, but I'm sure it addressed that subject.

Even where you find both whitetail and mule deer in the west in the same general area, they are usually divided by topography. The whitetail being found in the valley bottoms, and the mule deer in the hills.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6676024
11/26/19 12:15 PM
11/26/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,519
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
M
martentrapper Offline
trapper
martentrapper  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,519
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
If I was going to hunt mulish in Wyo. I'd be looking at that migration route in the video!
mt

Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Osky] #6676034
11/26/19 12:30 PM
11/26/19 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,892
MN
1
160user Offline
trapper
160user  Offline
trapper
1

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,892
MN
Originally Posted by Osky
Originally Posted by 330-Trapper
I sure wish they'd displace the Whitetail instead of the other way around.


I think the moose and woodland caribou that were native in Minnesota until a 125 years ago or so would heartily agree 330.

Osky


I saw and photographed 3 caribou in MN near lake Bronson in April of 2000 so they haven't been completely gone for that long. These were more than likely out of Canada and probably didn't stick around long.


I have nothing clever to put here.





Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6676082
11/26/19 01:48 PM
11/26/19 01:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,325
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,325
Northern MN
Minnesota had plenty of caribou and very few whitetail north of basically I 94. This was not bush country but big timber country and caribou ate base tree lichen and those types of foods. The many ponds and lakes held moose.
It all changed with the log off by the railroad barons. The whitetail moved north with the change to bush and brought disease as well. We also had a lot of elk native to MN before the whites.
The MN SCi chapter tried bringing caribou back in MN around 75. 28 head all died in short order from a disease carried by white tails. No one knew this would happen back then.
MN historical society and museum has some early pictures of the prairies which are now the western suburbs of Minneapolis with large herds of elk to be seen. There were no trees to the west then, just grass except along the natural flowing waterways. Explains the great waterfowl migrations that used to be thru MN as well
But now no more.

Osky

Last edited by Osky; 11/26/19 02:10 PM.

"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6676097
11/26/19 02:09 PM
11/26/19 02:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,325
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,325
Northern MN
Originally Posted by Grandpa Trapper
... to to the eastern United States. Another just wondering question.


Then again, maybe they just don’t have the brains god gave geese?

Osky


Last edited by Osky; 11/26/19 02:11 PM.

"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6676534
11/26/19 11:25 PM
11/26/19 11:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,694
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,694
Virginia
Whenever they try to move east, the white-tailed deer shame them endlessly for the prissy way that they hop like a girl when they run, and they slink back from whence they came.

Re: Why haven’t mule deer ever migrated... [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #6676571
11/27/19 12:12 AM
11/27/19 12:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,221
Manitoba
N
Northof50 Offline
trapper
Northof50  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,221
Manitoba
After WW1 the mule deer were shot out of Manitoba with their behaviour of looking back at the top of the hill.....anyone who served and survived WW!; knew where to shoot those 303 British guns

160user there was a movement of woodland caribou that year and it is only 100 miles from their native range THEN. They are around Black Lake Nopiming Prov. Park now 51 latitude straight north.

There is a large population in SW Manitoba now and we cant hunt them....

Last edited by Northof50; 11/27/19 12:14 AM.
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