How are these otter not suitcased? 280 belisle, 330 belisle. Serious question.

My guess. Since the body is fatter than the neck, the jaw on the body keeps the front jaw ajar enough for the otter to pull his head back through initially.

Set in water ? Triggers on the top ?

I have always figured it was speed of the critter and the size of the trap relative to body size. I've never managed to suitcase one. Especially in a 330. 220 seems a better choice to me.

Had one by the tail in a 330 one time

I'm with dirt on this one.

Curling away from the triggers too late?

Im with Dirt. I had mink and weasel do the same. I dont believe it is speed at all. I think they grab the bars with their front feet and pull their heads our before they expire. Another scenario is the inchworm arch they have in their back when walking/running on land, the trap snaps off when the arched back hits the trigger and the head is too far inward to be hit by the front jaws. That's my story and Im sticking to it.

Were these set on slides (otter approaching fast at a steep angle)?

What he said. I had one by the tail as well. Interesting experience in tide marsh grass.

Dirt is correct.In a series 1 victor 330 they can escape completely.

The sets were about 30' apart in a small fast creek. The 280 was shallow enough the otter coulda had his feet on the bottom. The 330 was deeper, maybe 2/3 submerged. Both triggers up I think. I'm starting to wonder about the inch worm scenario. I always figured they were powering their heads out too. These are brand new belisles and they're tight. I'll look for any sign of trauma, bruising, to the head/neck when I skin them.

I'm with Dirt, they push their heads out

Got a stranger one, friend sent pic last season of otter in Belisle 330 that should have been suitcased but the BACK half was out ? Any guesses ?

My best guess was two otter and one pulled head out while other got back half out ?

Were they going upstream or downstream?

No matter magnums or regular the jaws are only going to close as tight as the thickest part of the animal in one jaw. I would guess as the animal expires and the muscles relax the jaws close more tight than during the early strike.

^^^^ I agree.

I gotta side with White on this one

If the animal is going as fast as some of you say, then I would thin both jaws would have hold of something?

only conni otter catching i do is 220's hi and dry, 220's suitcase em.

I think we visualize what an otter looks like when dead. Those jaws will eventually flatten the midsection to flat as a pancake, but an otter in life, is the Chuck Norris of the water.
I would expect that an otter's first reaction to a Conibear going off around it would be to tighten up its midsection to combat the anaconda-like ever-tightening jaws, while freeing its head from the other slower-closing jaws (their midsection is slowing the closing action of the jaws).

It was stated that both otter were caught in a swift stream.

The reason I asked about direction of travel is because the speed an animal is traveling when it hits the trigger has to effect the catch position. Direction of travel is easy to determine if you know the position of the dog in relationship to direction of stream flow.

Maybe I just like to over think things.

They were moving upstream. The 330 was still pretty much in place.
No sign of trauma even where held except one little bruise on one. Easier to see mark on leather than on the carcass.
I've had the same scenario with 220 set in water. These otter would have been a pretty tight fit in a 220 but their heads and necks would have fit for sure of course.
Factory setting on the triggers no filing.

I was just curious, not like I can control whether an otter will be swimming upstream or downstream when traveling.

Nice catch.

Well the pull-out scenario seems to make the most sense they[re built like a splitting wedge and strong as iron too it's amazing how tough some of these critters are.
Here's a story about some otters defending their space: River otters attack, injure family dog in Anchorage park
www.ktuu.com/content/news/River-otters-attack...
Oct 14, 2019 · ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - An Alaska man says he rescued his family's dog from an attack by river otters in a small lake inside an Anchorage park.

Happy Thanksgiving

Have you ever watched an otter on land? They are all bunched up bouncing along the ground. Very easy to see how the trigger could be pushed with the head, have the jaw whack it behind the shoulders, and have the head extend past the opposite jaw when it stretches out.

Had a mink today in a 160 (on the bank) caught solid behind the shoulders, his head wasn't in the other jaws. I figure when the trap springs and hits that arched back, it may pull his head back away from the closing front jaws?

I'm still not buying the "push their heads out" story.

You say the 330 was still pretty much in place. I can't imagine that being the case with an otter struggling to get his head out

Even if "push out" does occur, what is the probability that both these otters did it ?

Perhaps it is natural instinct for them to dive and turn around. If you picture a eagle swooping down on one that is exactly what they do. Those jokers are fast.

x2 with white on 220s id rather see a neck thorax catch! Doa every time very little if any struggle. The thought of them powering out could be bad news for conis.The big trap club don't apply to otter trapping

The one I caught this morning did not get it's head out. It was going downstream with swift current. I have triggers off to the side on top in an L shape to avoid some pesky muskrats from springing my traps. I still get a lot of rats with this trigger configuration and many otter are neck caught like the one I caught yesterday. Sorry, I do not have a good theory on the ones not suitcased with the head out of the jaws.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU ALL!!

Pulling head out? Of belisles? I don’t think it is possible. Belisles are not a run of the mill conibear.

This I believe...

Not getting their heads back out of a Belisle. It was the angle they went in.

Belisle traps have cheap steel in the jaws and they bend easier than LDL's or Sauvageaus.One reason they are a less expensive trap.
With the jaws held open by a catch on an otters chest,pushing his tapered head out would not be impossible.Especially if the clamping force has been compromised from bent jaws.

My theory is he missed all the otters on land since his traps were in the water.

Who gives a shoot as long as you got him humanely without any pelt damage??????

I don't believe they pulled out...jmo...
Others can have theirs.

I noticed a lot of my 160 BMIs have curved jaws from repeated catches. A slight curved jaw is really enhanced when its cracked open a bit from a catch.

I have had 330s bent significantly from otters which refused to remain suitcased.

I think a good portion of this mystery is that otters are pretty darned strong, torpedo shaped, and just plain slippery when wet. I often wondered if they bench press the jaws off of their necks.

I don't know.....I just remember seeing the same thing years ago with an otter in a 220 and decided it had to have pulled it's head out. In that case the springs were not even fully up the sides of the jaws because the otters' torso was holding them open a little....These traps were not deep and there may have been a lot of up and down 'humping it' up the little fast creek.
I've got some traps set deeper in slow water we'll see how the hold looks if they connect.

Dirt is correct. I try to set so all animals will hit the trigger with their nose or chin, that gets a neck catch.

I had read this whole post and these 2 photos tells more of what I can explain, You look at the first photo is show the way the trap was set and how far the otter went into the trap with the trigger on the other side the otter came in , The you see in the 2nd photo for the side of the trap that the otter came in with the trigger on the same side of where the otter came in.You got the neck catch. I had a old time fur buyer and trapper taught me that on otter that you want the trigger on the side that the otter will go into not the dog side. like you seen in the first photo. I do not look for suit cased catch. I always try for neck catch. Otter will normal go up stream So I normal set the trigger on the down side of the creek or river.So when the otter swim up stream or river will get caught like in the 2nd photo. Thanks MnMan for post the photos it help me to explain what I see and was taught.

So otter normally go upstream? Then there should be a pile of them up at the headwaters? I want to trap there!

I bet when they tested these in Canada, none of the computer otters pulled their heads out.

That is the normal but some will go down stream also. but to normal get there pray going up stream is best for getting fish since that is what mainly go after, If do not think so when fish is in a stream or river what way they are facing and where are they at. on the coni traps there is a approach side of the trap and none approach side. the side that the trigger is on is the approach side.I know at times that the animal will not go on that side of it.You also get the others in your beaver set.It depends how you have your trap set. Out of all the years I trap otters I have not had one get out of a body trap. Or destroy one. I got them in 220 and 330's.

There is no doubt in my mind about the brute strength of otters. I have many bent 330 jaws to prove it.
I catch a lot of otters by the midsection but not by the neck because I put the trigger all of the way to the side to reduce catching everything except beavers.

two more today . one in a 220 Belisle and one in a 280. both got there heads out like the first pic. This is very common for me on otters

I don't have any of these new fangled traps but the jaws on Victor and BMI 330's will bend, just bend them back. I think they are getting their head out, if they were going fast when they hit the trap they would only be caught if the hind end

The 220 i use on otter are Victors and Bridger and as for the 330 I use Bridger and Dukes I do not get any bent ,I did nothing to them to modified them. They work ok for me .and for how I get the otters beside beaver.

220 is the best trap strictly for otter.I have killed them with 120's,160's,220's 280's330's,1's, 1 1/2's,3's, 4's, 5's and snares.
Over the years I have taken 2 otter in one trap 7 times in 330's and once on a snarepole.

Before and after. This is a dive set so the otter definitely swimming vs possibly running in shallow water as before in the OP also a smaller otter. 280 belisle

Where are you finding green stuff and open water ??

Supposed to be above freezing again in a couple days.

WOW !! I have 28 below this morning

That is the perfect catch there. thanks for show the before and after. I use alot of dive poles or something to force them to dive.

I know it's like the new Southeast Alaska here.

Are you trapping in salt or brackish ??

freshwater

I've never suitcased one of these guys, always by the neck, no matter how the trigger is set up, male, female always by the neck

Same here. Never a suitcase

If any critter was going to power out of a 330 I would expect gulo to do it before an otter,,,,,,,,,,,but they rarely move more than a foot or two.

Looks like you could use a bit more snow

Yep skinny on snow.

Wish I could send you some of mine !

Thanks! Don't tell anybody but I'm kinda ok with easing into things!

Here's the latest, before and after. It got caught coming up the hill, 280 belisle,didn't even get the support stick out so apparently not much struggle yet still not syiutcased. I'm really wondering about the 'humping it/ inchworm' scenario.

I think that theory has a lot of potential ! You're on a roll there !! Must be pretty dense otter population

Well there's a lot of water!