A Trapperman member, through homework and footwork, was able to obtain all the Isle Royal wolf research traps with "Mech" jaws.
I was offered a few and accepted without hesitation. Very much appreciated..!!!!!!!!
All are pretty much set up in the same manner, And even came with a letter of provenance.
There is a lot more to this story but I just wanted to show that there are still collectable traps out there to be found.............Dale

Unique teeth\jaws and pan spring. Were the traps used for wolf research? When?

From the info I got with the traps; These traps were used for wolf research on Isle Royal starting in the late 1980s.
The 30 sets of jaws were ordered from the same foundry that cast the Mech jaws earlier.
There is a good write up by Dan VanShaik about Dave Mech in the Trap Collectors Guide 2nd edition...

Those are pretty cool traps Dale, you lucked out. I read where the jaws came from the Kirsh Foundry - did they put any foundry marks on them? I wonder if they were sent back to ATC for final fitting or if they were modified and assembled locally.

I don't think there are foundry marks but I believe the jaws came from the foundry with two large casting lugs on top of each jaw. (like in this pic.) All the Isle Royal jaws had those lugs ground off.
From the info I got with the traps it states that the Isle Royal team replaced the jaws on Newhouse #4 ATC raised pan traps and had to drill the Mech jaws to fit the jawposts.
If the Kirsh foundry is in Wisconsin, that could be correct..

I have looked at many Mech jaws (on & off traps) and have never seen a foundry mark. I found Kirsh Foundry very guarded when discussing these jaws and got most information for my research directly from Dr Mech and his wolf team. The jaws came undrilled & with casting lugs, and were fitted onto traps by the individual project leaders. A Gov't trapper from Texas that I know well helped the Mech team fit jaws from the original casting run onto #4 ATC traps. I have a detailed description of the fitting process from interviews with him. Some had standard pans and some have the P-I-T pan with "safety pin" underpan design.
I have jaw sets and trap photos from various wolf teams in different states that received them for experimentation with capture-recapture projects.

Dale's trap with provenance is a great artifact of unique wolf project history...that is what trap collecting is all about.

Great info guys, keeps trap collecting fun.

I’ve researched Mech Jaws, and talked to Dave Mech about them. I’ve been looking for the version with the 4 nubs in the offset instead of the 6 teeth if anyone has any pictures or one for sale.

I have a trap with Mech Jaws, but NOT with that pan...........

MZ

Can you post a pic?
Here are a few with different pans. I can't confirm they were used by the wolf researchers but all have Mech jaws. It wouldn't surprise me to see mech jaws show up on a stamped pan ATC Newhouse..... Notice the teeth on the second one... I think that may have been done in later years to appease the bunny huggers...

I'll get some pics later......

Mine has a #14 pan on it

Mine has the foundry nubs on the top ground off

Mine has a trap tag that says: "Wolf Ecology Project-University of Montana-MIssoula MT"

MZ

Diggerperson, do you have any information about the study when your trap with the softened teeth was used? IWM, are you familiar with the wolf study from which Zagman's tagged trap originated? The folks there may have added "Mech" jaws to used Newhouse traps. When we see the photos it will be interesting to see if they used OC or ATC traps. Have you seen any "Mech" traps that were made up from OC traps?

Cohunt,

"Nubs" were fashioned from original Mech jaw teeth sometime in the 1990s in response to pressure from animal welfare groups. I have the correspondence with MN wolf team members about nubs in my files. For whatever reason, nub jaws are hard to come by.

I am not familiar with the Montana project described in Zagman's post, but there is a professional Montana wolfer on this site who would know. Although I have not had one before, it would make sense that Mech jaws show up with a #14 pan; as that is the original trap of choice for the MN project (see story in back of Trap Collectors Guide). I have owned/looked at numerous Mech traps with ATC 4 stamped pans (first run).

Since the first casting of Mech jaws was decades after OC trap production changed to ATC in 1925, it would be very unusual to find an OC with Mech jaws. All my research on various projects has shown only ATC traps used. However, anytime experimental jaws are distributed out among project leaders in different agencies, it is "possible" that they installed them on OCs laying around.

A collector stopped by with these awhile back. I don't remember the exact story but the jist of it is they both came from a deceased, retired, gov worker in northern MN.
The long chain on the #14 looked factory to me and I suspect it was special order for wolf research. Both were probably used in the same time period.
So like I said earlier; It wouldn't surprise me to see Mech jaws on an ATC stamped pan trap..

Here's the pics......as promised What I called "nubs" incorrectly are those things on the top of the jaws that have clearly been ground off of my version.

Thanks for posting the pics Zagman. Great trap!!!!!

Wowww great traps! Thank you for the pictures

I was fortunate enough to be offered 2 different Isle Royal wolf traps by the above mentioned T-Man member. I have one of the MECH jaw traps and thought I would add pictures of the other Isle Royal Wolf Trap. The trap pictured is 1 of 6 purchased by MTU professor Rolf Peterson in 1976. The 6 traps were previously used in wolf research in Alaska.

The trap is a stock Newhouse #114 with added chain and rebar drag. Peterson used the traps to capture wolves in a study at the Kenai Peninsula. Later the traps were available for use in wolf studies at Isle Royal but there is no documentation of actual Isle Royal wolf captures.

The 6 traps have the distinct hand stamp "MICH TECH UNIV".

I also received a letter of provenance with this trap which is where most of the above information came from.

Nice traps and nice history of them Trapper Pete,

Always learn something on this page. Thanks guys!
Question for the wolf trappers that have used some of these traps...I noticed that the #114 has the chain attached off the base. And the collectable #44 traps have the same chain attachment...off the base. Wondering why the #14 and the Mech traps aren’t rigged up the same way? BMP data indicates that chains centered more paw friendly....wondered if actual field use on wolves indicated similar findings? Thinking the “nubs” as Zags called them might have a factor in this?
Thanks

Quite a few of my US gov't 14s have link & chain off the base. I am certain they could be ordered that way.

Initially, Mech jaws were installed on standard factory #4 (and #14) frames w/ chains. Later, certain wolf teams added P-I-T pans with beefed-up extended chains & drags (still off the spring).

On Mech jaws, "Zag's nubs" are actually called lugs and are part of the sprue-hole/flow-off gate where the jaws are connected to the casting tree for pouring. Most of the jaws from first run had those lugs ground off before distribution. I have seen a number of jaws from later runs being used with lugs still on. I don't see where they would affect performance either way?

I assume they learned that centered chains were more paw friendly because the agencies which continued with wolf capture/immobilization for collaring ended up going to LPC traps with link & chain off the base.
Some were like #114 setups and some were off a welded base plate ring at the center cross.

"Nubs" are shorter, rounded teeth on Mech & LPC wolf trap jaws that appeased the animal rights advocates. I have examples of both.

Is there a chance you could post a picture of your mech trap with the nubs? Are they similar to the one trap in digger Dale's picture? thanks

Thanks IWM...great info.

Are these listed in Blaise Andreski & Tom Parrs Trap collector's guide ? I cant seem to find them in the book . Very interesting trap.

Mech traps in general are not well documented in any existing book. When IWM publishes his book on Government Traps, or whatever he actually does cover in his forthcoming book, we can expect to see much more information on Mech traps including the Isle Royale traps and I would expect quite a surge in their popularity. I am looking forward with anticipation to that book.

I am looking forward to that book too. I might have a few traps that become "famous"....

I think I'm getting a little nudge from the guys on my book.

I have been researching gov't/research traps heavy since 1992 and am still finding new information every week. Just when I think I have a section completed, I get a call or email with pics that may change the context of that specific chapter...or add to it. This has happened just recently with Mech jaws and will lead to great enhancement of my original articles on them.
Throughout my wildlife career I have published under peer review, so am accustomed to "bullet proofing" my work as much as possible in advance. There are many smart collectors out there who will validate my book according to accuracy of each entry with the documentation. I want it to be comprehensively correct.
Finally, those of you who have been involved with the publishing process know how expensive it is. Editing, photography, layout, printing, etc all add up to significant expense before the first copy is sold. By the way, I have been advised that such a reference book for such a very limited target group will be lucky to break even.

That's about as many excuses for the delay as I can come up with at this time!
Thanks

^^^^^^^^

Found this today, thought I would share.
I'm not going to say for sure if it's a 4 pan or a 14 pan , pretty rough,
but I thought the stamp on the bottom of the base is interesting,

IVM any updates on your book?

Had to double check mine but no government stamps - maybe there are some on the other Mech jaw conversions. That to me is kind of an unusual government stamp, it almost looks etched instead of stamped. Dale and cohunt have a few that they can speak on and hopefully Dan will chime in at some point.

Bumpy: Any insight where the trap pictured came from? Might help identify which research project it was associated with. During the time period when the Mech jaws were being produced and added to #4 size Newhouse traps the folks who assembled those specific traps could have used either stamped or raised letter pans OR as in the case of the Isle Royale trap that Deerhunter51 shows, replaced the pan with a tensioning pan setup. You are building a sizeable collection, are you gaining on Digger?

Jim, this trap also came from northern Minnesota at least that's what I was told, pretty interesting all the different chain and drag set ups,as far as the stamp goes I half wonder if who ever assembled the trap added his/her own touch. Guess I was hoping ther is another one similar to it out there

I read a correspondence from a member of the mech team refering to the costs involved in getting these trapline ready. There was mention of procuring drags larger and heavier than the Newhouse drags...

I've seen some various stamps and your US base stamp looks to be hand stamped. I think these jaws were used by more than a few different Gov. branches and different regions over time. You can bet the Gov. trappers had plenty of shop time and trappers being trappers, were always modifying things.

Here's an example of a shop time trap....

MChewk,

Tom is assembling sections for the next book now and I look to send him my manuscript by June 1.
I have an extensive chapter on Mech jaws and wolf team traps with much new info gathered in last 6-8 months.

Enjoying the traps and the conversation! Great stuff! It would be nice to be able to pet some of these government traps the end of June. Maybe a little show and tell?

I'll throw another shop time trap in the mix,
LPC with the teeth nubbed off and a paws I trip pan

Hang on to that one.

Around 1990, wolf research teams and USDA wolf management specialists started replacing ATC 4s having Mech jaws with newly produced LPC 7s (OS w/ teeth). They were impressed with their carbon-steel quality but found the sharp teeth hard on wolves for catch & release. Several of these trappers began grinding the points down to reduce foot/leg damage and reported their success at the Second North American Symposium on Wolves in August, 1992. Thus, "nubs" caught on among the group along with popular P-I-T pans used on some Mech traps for tension control.

One wolf management specialist in MT approached LPC with the nub concept in mid-1990s and by late-1990s, LPC 7s could be ordered with nubs from the manufacturer. Being very strong and having replacement parts readily available, this was trap of choice for wolf relocation and collaring until the LPC 7 Easy Grip was perfected.

IWM,. I guess I'm not sure. Is that what is called the nub jaws?and would a set of mech Jaws with the same amount of teeth ground down down also be considered the nub jaws? Thanks for all education

Yes, nubs on LPC & Mech jaws.

Guys are the LPC traps and accessories still for sale? The website is a mess...contacted a sales rep. and prices he gave me were not the same as website?

Here's a picture of the wolf trap being used in our neck of the woods,

nice trap !!!

Wondering if this trap goes along with the wolf study? There's been a few of them popping up ,hand stamped MINN on the base, most of them have a long chain just under 4 ft

Thought maybe it would draw some interest

Bumpy, I have a trap with the same stamping. What style chain is on yours?

Cut link chain off the end of a spring, nothing on the end of it

Mine is standard cutlink chain with ring off spring.

Is there any further information about the progress on IWM's planned book? I'm certainly looking forward to it being published. Gary

Book ready for editing this spring. Ran into real problems with publishing many of the press photos and archives that support my text. Had to rewrite several chapters to avoid legal complications.
Copyright protection & infringement laws are very complex and far reaching...I had no idea.

It's good to know your moving ahead with this project, I am patiently waiting.

Like many, can't wait for this book........

MZ