Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Kevin Stake]
#6834427
04/08/20 10:48 AM
04/08/20 10:48 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445 Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
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Do you think a canine can tell what it was that peed on some grass? Fox or coyote or dog? Or they just know another predator is in there territory? I absolutely do, coyotes are very territorial towards red fox especially. Even at natural scent markers. I see it in the snow all the time here were a fox came thru first , the yotes always kick scratch at red fox scent marks. Red fox Urine smells stronger throughout all temp ranges, even down to zero. Here's a test, freeze red fox and coyote urine overnight then smell both in the morning. Your welcome
Last edited by trappergbus; 04/08/20 10:49 AM.
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Marten Ted]
#6834439
04/08/20 11:00 AM
04/08/20 11:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,176 Wisconsin
The Beav
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,176
Wisconsin
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Is that bladder urine or store bought? All store bought urine is not created equal.
I always figure It this way. A fox approaching a set where coyote urine has been used isn't going to back off since It can plainly see there Is no coyotes there. The only reason I use coyote urine Is because we have NO fox. But I did notice when trapping In areas with all 3 species that GOOD cat urine seemed to work better then either fox or coyote urine when trapping fox or coyotes.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Marten Ted]
#6834454
04/08/20 11:19 AM
04/08/20 11:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,775 Nevadafornia
Lazarus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,775
Nevadafornia
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I'm tending to be more like The Beav, but one flaw trappers continue to demonstrate (IMO) is they always want to treat every coyote or every fox, the same as every other coyote or fox. THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT. Just like all domestic dogs are different. Some are aggressive; some are passive; some are skittish and some are not. Different coyotes have different experiences they bring with them to any given stimulus; different seasons/times of year bring a whole new shift as well. Not EVERY coyote is going to act exactly the same.
Craig O'Gorman uses (if not owns the patent on) the word neophobic in relation to coyotes. The word means "fear of the new." While MOST EVERY coyote fears things that are new, given their age, sex, time of year, prior experiences, etc., their level of fear or their response to the stimulus will be different. Why do trappers have great luck with fatty meat baits in early fall but later switch to gland lures? Because coyotes in the fall are trying to consume calories for winter reserves; in the early spring they start to think about territories, mates and breeding.
If a coyote has smelled your collection urine several times because you left it behind when you pulled your trap, then he/she might be accustomed to it so when you go back next year and put a trap down, the coyote is already familiar with that odor and has no fear of it. On the other hand, if its urine (from whatever source and no matter if its male, female or mixed) the coyote has never smelled before, he or she GENERALLY is going to come in down wind and make a careful inspection of it. He may only come close enough to satisfy his curiosity for the moment and go on about his business because he's got other things on his mind. If you observed all this (in the snow perhaps), you could possibly conclude that the urine wasn't any good, wasn't attractive, etc., but the fact is, your coyote just wasn't in the mood at the time. Next time down the trail, he knows your urine is there and may not exhibit as much suspicion. Maybe this time he's more in the mood to check out the source of the urine and he comes to check it out -- but you've pulled your trap because you interpreted his response the first time as bad urine. Or maybe you decided to add a different lure/odor to the set and now the coyote is really confused by the sudden addition.
Who was the fellow on here some months ago that had the pet coyote? He took some videos/photos of the coyote when he'd take her on walks in the neighborhood. This coyote had never been around traps, hunted, etc. but was very suspicious of anything NEW. Many young female coyotes have that same trait. They don't have the testosterone of a male to be bold enough to make new discoveries and they are often not as hungry as more active/aggressive males. Anyway, this coyote's response to anything new was suspicion. However, after several encounters with a new object in her environment, she began to trust the object and would start exhibiting curiosity.
Anyway, enough said.
Last edited by Lazarus; 04/08/20 11:25 AM.
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Lazarus]
#6834465
04/08/20 11:36 AM
04/08/20 11:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445 Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
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Very well stated Laz, that's the reason I try different lures every season. And I don't use as much urine as most. I change sources for urine also. Ya know when you have a winning combo when you trap as many girls as guys or more.. Techniques get tweaked too..
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Marten Ted]
#6834567
04/08/20 01:00 PM
04/08/20 01:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
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Very well said Lazarus. Back in the early '60s I had a pet (had two day old pups to start, one was killed ) coyote for about 3 years, the single important thing to remember about coyote behavior is that they are cowards; always afraid and keeping every thing at a distance, not only new things but most things. They overcome that fear for hunger and for curiosity, he was very curious, in a cautious way. That coyote pup loved fresh milk but was scared of the pan I fed him in, all the time he was with me he would circle that pan of milk then dash at it and grab a bite of it as he ran past, then repeat, twice a day. Never did learn to lap it, because he was always afraid to stand by that dish in the open - something I only realized years later. Another little thing that I rarely see mentioned about coyotes is that he hunted with his eyes much more than with his nose, he'd see a ground squirrel over a hundred yards away and key in on it. Same with pheasant. His approach was always a semi circle that put him down wind for the last 30 yards or so, then his nose took over, but as I think back I don't recall him ever going more than a few yards to a wind smell that caught his nose, like rabbit burrow or bird nest. Observations of a 12 yo as recalled many years later, so...
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Yes sir]
#6834587
04/08/20 01:19 PM
04/08/20 01:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,775 Nevadafornia
Lazarus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,775
Nevadafornia
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People all want the degree, but not the homework. Test sets, cameras, study the animals not the computer screen. Not hard to test urine with cameras and see what's happening. How do you think Tracy got his PhD.
Bwahahahahah! School of Hard Knocks
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Lazarus]
#6834616
04/08/20 01:45 PM
04/08/20 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,167 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,167
Marion Kansas
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People all want the degree, but not the homework. Test sets, cameras, study the animals not the computer screen. Not hard to test urine with cameras and see what's happening. How do you think Tracy got his PhD.
Bwahahahahah! School of Hard Knocks Either way I believe u have it
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Marten Ted]
#6835105
04/08/20 09:03 PM
04/08/20 09:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,548 NW Illinois
Kevin Stake
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,548
NW Illinois
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Thanks, for the information. That's why I asked.
It is more blessed to give than to receive
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Marten Ted]
#6837881
04/10/20 10:58 PM
04/10/20 10:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,586 The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,586
The Hill Country of Texas
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Im not saying what you do is wrong but I would think that if you trap 6 or 7 sections east of the big river you aren't just dealing with one or 2 family units. You are mixing it up but different coyotes all along your line is what Im saying. I wouldn't be scared of habitualizing anything unless I started to see a pattern of refusals myself.
Out of curiosity how thick are your coyotes there?
�What�s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.� Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Marten Ted]
#6840683
04/13/20 09:20 AM
04/13/20 09:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,586 The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,586
The Hill Country of Texas
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80% take is quite an accomplishment. I'm like you, when I know a system is working I probably won't be looking to change it for just no reason at all!
�What�s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.� Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
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Re: Coyote vs Fox urine
[Re: Marten Ted]
#6840822
04/13/20 10:31 AM
04/13/20 10:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,691 Missouri
HayDay
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,691
Missouri
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Couple questions from a entry level canine trapper........
How is canine urine collected.........I know how easy it would be to collect mine...but canines? In volume?
I've always heard references to "good" urine? How does one qualify what is "good"?
Where do I find the good stuff? Seems every trapping place on the planet......plus some others....all sell urine.
Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
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