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Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870057
05/12/20 10:22 AM
05/12/20 10:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
D
Dana I Offline OP
trapper
Dana I  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
I really feel that given the ownership status of the property this is our best option. My wife's family has owned this land for a long time and has appoched the owner multiple times about access over the years. Was always told to go ahead and use it if it is ok with the tenant but won't give a permanent easement.

And to clarify we have not been going across anyone else to get to the cabin except for very rare occasions when we could do it without damaging any crops. We can access it from our side but we have to go across a swamp and cross a trout stream. So we have to either walk in or use a four wheeler. The last 2 years they have had corn in that field so we haven't been able to go that way at all.

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870087
05/12/20 10:57 AM
05/12/20 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,553
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,553
McGrath, AK
I would absolutely talk to an attorney. No way I would enter any agreement with a tenant. Your proposed solution would be reasonable as long as it involves the landowner. But you need legal advice from a NY based attorney

EDIT: I would also insist that the tenant pay the legal fees involved.

Last edited by white17; 05/12/20 10:58 AM.

Mean As Nails
Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870097
05/12/20 11:17 AM
05/12/20 11:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,926
NC, Orange Co.
QuietButDeadly Offline
trapper
QuietButDeadly  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,926
NC, Orange Co.
What you have is a mess.

Bottom line, the farmer had no right to create a road on your property for his convenience. You have been wronged and have a right to recover. That recovery could be to return your land to the original condition or some trade off that is acceptable to you. That trade off should not be permission from the farmer to access your land through property that the farmer only leases.

Either make him restore your land or build you a road on your land to access your property. Those old apple trees had value to you. Do not know about your laws but if someone here cuts timber on the wrong side of the property line, they have to pay 3 times the value of the trees. Trees have value other than for timber. You are probably gonna need a lawyer to make it happen but if you just let it go at what has been offered, you are getting screwed! I would start by blocking the new road that was built on your property without your permission and go from there. .


Life Member: NCTA, VTA, NTA, TTFHA
Member: UTK GTA FTA SA NRA NWTF WFSC
Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870099
05/12/20 11:19 AM
05/12/20 11:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
Big George W Offline
trapper
Big George W  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
whoa... they don't own the land but decided to bulldoze their own driveway to connect two parcels of land that they rent - across your property - without permission ??

Not cool.... man, I'd be furious about that if it happened to me and I would make them fully restore what was taken away, not to mention remove their pirated driveway as well.

I have two right of way driveways cutting across what little property I have - believe me - I make it well known that legally all they can do is ingress and egress - nothing else while passing through my property, unless I give permission [*which on occasion I do...]

My friend, I'd be calling a lawyer if I were you as I see nothing good coming out of this long term.


Respect,
Big George + Loki the Dog.....
East Derby, CT
CTA [life member], NTA, FTA, FBU
Connecticut Republican Party
Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870114
05/12/20 11:37 AM
05/12/20 11:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,553
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,553
McGrath, AK
Another thing to be aware of is the tenant may eventually file a claim for adverse possession of the land where he built the road. In NY that requires ten years of use.

Might check this site for some info. https://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-adverse-possession-laws.html

Get a lawyer. You can still be good neighbors. Probably better if everything is legal.


Mean As Nails
Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870120
05/12/20 11:44 AM
05/12/20 11:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
Big George W Offline
trapper
Big George W  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
*I want to add that the house behind mine [the closest right of way driveway] actually took property from another homeowner up the hill, by simply deciding that their backyard went father than it ought too.

This was about 25 years ago, and because the original affected homeowner knew nothing about it, the "pirates" got away with it - and today legally it is now a part of the current homeowners property [who also has no idea about his larger than it should be backyard], and the new homeowner on the hill has no idea about how this happened, etc.... but property boundry maps do not lie, and every now and then I am generous enough to produce the copies of all the surveyed land maps that I have so folks can see what's what.

I've had former neighbors think that my land is their's - last time someone had ideas I made sure he saw me sighting all my rifles one fine sunny day.... never had a problem again.

I know I don't always agree with everyone here on T-Man, I can't help it as a kid from the Big Apple now living in a small broken city in CT but property - land ownership - is to me a real thing, and something that has to be defended by any means necessary.

If someone made a pirated driveway across my property, i would demand full restitution and restoration and since these are renters if I am reading this post correctly, I'd make sure that property owner knows what happened as well via my lawyer, because if they [the renters...] feel they got over on you, believe me it's only just the beginning - they will continue to take as the wish without your permission as long as they feel/know they can get away with it.


Respect,
Big George + Loki the Dog.....
East Derby, CT
CTA [life member], NTA, FTA, FBU
Connecticut Republican Party
Re: Pirated driveway [Re: white17] #6870122
05/12/20 11:47 AM
05/12/20 11:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
Big George W Offline
trapper
Big George W  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 273
CT
Originally Posted by white17
Another thing to be aware of is the tenant may eventually file a claim for adverse possession of the land where he built the road. In NY that requires ten years of use.

Might check this site for some info. https://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-adverse-possession-laws.html

Get a lawyer. You can still be good neighbors. Probably better if everything is legal.




Yes - this is what I just mentioned above - property owner behind me took a part of another property owners land, today because of this illegal action that was never contested [I'm not sure if that's the right word] the boundries have changed, due to literally what falls under squatters rights...


Respect,
Big George + Loki the Dog.....
East Derby, CT
CTA [life member], NTA, FTA, FBU
Connecticut Republican Party
Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870125
05/12/20 11:50 AM
05/12/20 11:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,440
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,440
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Man, brings back memories. I have seen a similar situation years ago, it was terrible, until a legal agreement was made deeding access . A costly pain till it was all worked out , with hard feelings on both sides.

If this doesn't work out in full legal protection, maybe offering the surrounding land owner to buy that parcel , take that cash and get another property that has the access , as they all should.

There are states that claim for adverse possession of the road access, after an amount of time used.

Landlocked property is just awful .

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Diggerman] #6870128
05/12/20 11:54 AM
05/12/20 11:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 20,186
nm
A
adam m Offline
trapper
adam m  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 20,186
nm
Originally Posted by Diggerman
You guys really believe kicking the hornets nest is the best way to handle this? OP has been crossing other peoples property to get to his cabin, now he should call the cops, don't get your logic.

The neighbor kicked the hornet nest. The neighbor is leasing 2 plots of land with the op in the middle. It sounds like the tenant was tired of driving around the op property to get their other land. So the tenant without permission (written, recorded or oral) took a bulldozer to the op property. You bet the law would be involved if that was my land even though the op got better access to the back of their property.

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870130
05/12/20 11:56 AM
05/12/20 11:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
D
Dana I Offline OP
trapper
Dana I  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
The property isn't technically landlocked. We just can't access the back end of it (where the cabin is) with vehicles because of the swamp and stream that flows through.

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870137
05/12/20 11:59 AM
05/12/20 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,343
southern oregon cascades
dirtydogtrapping Offline
trapper
dirtydogtrapping  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,343
southern oregon cascades
Yeah and your right back were you started as soon as they plant corn again ! Block there access now before that happens.


Violator 7 smells like Heaven!
Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870145
05/12/20 12:06 PM
05/12/20 12:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
D
Dana I Offline OP
trapper
Dana I  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
It will be corn again this year. What we are working on is a agreement where they leave the edge for us every year so we can use it all the time.

After reading some of the concerns here there are a few things that will need to be addressed in the agreement.

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870147
05/12/20 12:09 PM
05/12/20 12:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 730
MN, USA
star flakes Offline
trapper
star flakes  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 730
MN, USA
Legal rights on land are complicated. For example, you do not state the history of your property, which is between the other fields. There are road right of ways, even if a road is not there. There is the fact that people have "Right of Access", meaning they can not shut your right to access your land by crossing their property, and you can not do that to them either. Ranchers out west tried pulling this crap in the big corporate names liked Disney to shut off public land in a land grab.

As others have said, get it in writing, because there is an old 7 year use law, that if someone uses land uncontested, it becomes their land, whether you are paying taxes on it or not.
In the writing part also, put in a stipulation that you have first right to purchase the adjoining properties if they sell, and if they will agree, that the easements return to you if they sell. You have to think about this too in making certain this is stipulated this is for non commercial and only agricultural use. They have a road now,and you do not want to find 300 houses in a development or an ATV off road park screaming up and down the roads all day and night.

As Reagan said, "Trust but verify", get it all in writing and think of the worst things you do not want happening, due to that road being there and make sure they can not do that. Your stick in this is, yes you made a verbal contract to what you agreed to, but verbal is not in writing, so expand it to writing, with the notice that this will end up in court otherwise.
One more thing, get some or make some concrete slabs, to place at the corners of your new easement to mark it. Markers are legal and you do not need to inform the other owners of this, but record your doing this and date it. That holds up in court.

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Big George W] #6870151
05/12/20 12:11 PM
05/12/20 12:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 719
Missouri
W
WhiteTrash 88 Offline
trapper
WhiteTrash 88  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 719
Missouri
It would seem to me that now would be the time to get a permanent easement from the farmer landowners. By him Leasing his land to be farmed by the share croppers and them taking it on themselves to doze your property to make a road, does not let the farmer land owner off the hook. I myself would not mess around with this because sooner or later you will come out on the short end, more than you are now. I would buy them share croppers a case of beer for helping you out on getting a recorded easement to the back of my property.

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870155
05/12/20 12:14 PM
05/12/20 12:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,030
NY
Canvasback2 Offline
trapper
Canvasback2  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,030
NY
OMG!! This brings back memories from several years back!!!

Neighbor bought the burned out house next door, and rebuilt it. Turned it into a Restaurant, garden center, Antique shop , Gift Shop, Deli Shop AND A BAKERY SHOP ALL ON THE SAME PROPERTY !! Also had a Greenhouse on the property. They had parking for 26 cars on their parking lot. That is, IF you lined the cars up like Dominoes ! Well, One day the crap hit the fan , and they had more customers than their parking lot could hold . They lined up the overflow of cars along BOTH sides of the abandoned old road in front of MY HOUSE !! Blocking not only the private driveway, but also the Common driveway entrance. We could not enter or leave the property. The Mail Man could not deliver the Mail, The Garbage could not be picked up. Town REFUSED to do anything about it.


Finally got the County involved , and they showed up with a big backhoe one Morning and it was a SIGHT to see !! They ripped out the entrance to the Common driveway and then that week, they ripped out the whole abandoned road in front of my house and then dumped truck load after truck load of clean dirt fill where the old road used to be. After seeding it three times over one Month, I had a new lawn !!

They closed the Restaurant up not long after that !!! grin

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870158
05/12/20 12:17 PM
05/12/20 12:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,030
NY
Canvasback2 Offline
trapper
Canvasback2  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,030
NY
Common driveway easements are nothing but trouble! Give someone an inch, and they will take a mile !!

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870239
05/12/20 02:11 PM
05/12/20 02:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,351
SE Kansas
K
K52 Offline
trapper
K52  Offline
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K

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,351
SE Kansas
All the advise about adverse possession is all well and good but every state is different, so you really need get a lawyer and have him handle this, It's a real threat to your property. There is no way in H**l I would let the farmer come onto my land and destroy my property just so he doesn't have to drive his equipment around your land a few times a year. How could anyone think they have the right to bulldoze your trees, ground and NO Trespassing signs? I'd make sure that criminal charges were filed and the road tore out, the damage remediated, trees replanted, grass seeded, and whatever else it took to put the ground back the way it was. The people that did this thought that it would be easier to illegally destroy your property without your knowledge and ask forgiveness later. You need to show them the error of their ways or no telling what's next. Someone said something about being a good neighbor, The people that did this have no idea of what that is, it's not a one way street.

Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870255
05/12/20 02:37 PM
05/12/20 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,513
Nebraska
Trapset Offline
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Trapset  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,513
Nebraska
I would not get real huffy right off the bat. The owner may already have an old easement across your property. If you start off demanding you may loose your access while they retain theirs.

If you dont get a lawyer as White suggests, and I agree, I would at least look up your deed and make sure there is not an existing easement. Then go to work on easements for both of you. Most are written to permit immediate access and egress only. In other words, neither party can stop and pick wild flowers along the way. LOL


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Re: Pirated driveway [Re: Dana I] #6870306
05/12/20 03:43 PM
05/12/20 03:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
D
Dana I Offline OP
trapper
Dana I  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 402
Perry, NY
After reading some of the laws pertaining to this it seems the easiest way to do it would be to rent the driveway to them with the payment being the use of their field edge.

If we give them permission to use it the adverse possession laws don't apply.

May need to talk to a pro to be sure I am not mistaken on any of it.

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