I do not agree with the gentleman from the middle of Alaska.
God Created all and is the good (Merciful, Loving, Righteous, & Just)
Satan is the evil.

We as humans try to put all the pieces of that spiritual battle in order and we win some and mess up some, but we're told in Scripture that the fruits of the Spirit will be evident in those who follow God's only Son.

James, "bad apples" means bad fruit = they follow their father (small f).

I believe Satan is just Man's excuse for bad behavior. About as real as the Boogeyman.

I believe in good and evil, though. Both are found within ourselves. Some people give themselves over to one or the other, and being a Christian doesn't always determine which.

Btw, I'm in South-central Alaska, on the coast, so am not in the "middle" of Alaska. lol

Jim

I agree with both of you; James and Mark J.. to some degree

Remember "the devil made me do it"?

That is a lame excuse for bad behavior. Humans are perfectly capable of evil behavior all on their own accord; that is our nature.
Many Christians as well as people of other religions give way too much attribution to lucifer. Lucifer is not; all knowing, or all present.
I have never been able to figure out why Christian brothers want to credit lucifer with characteristic that God alone possesses

Good points waggler.

I don't believe I ever called anyone in particular evil. I called the strife on earth the battle between good and evil.

James, those who are orthodox Christians, and who affirm the Bible as true in its entirety (I raise my hand) have only to look as waggler points us to; Genesis Chapter 3, where the woman yet to be called Eve and Adam initiate original sin.

God's entire narrative story for His Image Bearers takes on the plot of the reminder of Scripture in Genesis 3:15. This is a landmark passage for Christians, and there's no way to be orthodox and not believe this passage;

And I will put enmity (battle) between you (serpent = Satan) and the woman, and between your seed and her seed (God's Anointed). He (Christ) shall bruise you on the head, and you (Satan) shall bruise him on the heel (crucifixion).

American churches are thankfully once again teaching the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) more and more as many got away from that practice because some don't like to hear about judgement and don't believe in Satan.

If we don't teach that there is evil, and about Hades, we have to discount much on the Bible. The Apostle John writes in Revelation that Christ says that He was dead and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and Hades.

You see James, the resurrection portion of the Gospel; Jesus came for our sins, was killed and rose again; is the game changer. If you minimize portions of God's Scripture, you labor to minimize God to make Him into your kind of god, rather than you working to be more like His Son!

So the epic battle (enmity) of Genesis 3:15, which began in God's first Garden will continue here on earth (good versus evil), played out until such time as God proclaims he has the last gathered... and the New Heaven Reign on earth will begin. Orthodox Christianity places faith in this while many say it's foolishness. We accept that. We all find our truth source somewhere, even you brother!

I have a great professor for biblical studies, Dr. David Klingler, who used to be QB for the Oakland Raiders and Cinci Bengals, who tells us we can pick who we want to play for; Seed of the woman (Christ), or seed of the serpent (Satan). The wonder of God's love is that we get to choose. I believe God predestined, foresees, and determines, because I can believe that God is infinite and I am not. I can catch coyotes pretty well but God would have them all in a basket quick as the sun rises!

If as you state, Satan wasn't real (as orthodox Christians affirm), then the humanistic progressive philosophy: man's ability to create utopia on earth without having to die and go to heaven... is hard to figure is it not? Many pondered that same philosophy of Marx and others after WWI and WWII. They saw destruction, not progressive evolution of humankind.

As a biologist, trained in the art, Darwin's survival of the fittest is what I consider the myth. God and science blend nicely, but Darwinism is largely unproven hype sold as fact in the late 19th century into my lifetime. There are many unraveling it now as more "facts" become available to science.
I predict we'll see that same unproven train of teaching occur with global warming. It'll become fact because progressives teach it. 150 years from now, it'll be taught to my gg grandkids as FACT!, if the Tribulation doesn't occur first.

Good debate with the counsel!
Blessings!
Mark

"Anchorage, Alaska’s largest city, is in the south-central part of the state on the Cook Inlet. "

Should have googled it.

Some of the new age thinkers believe that God is just a matter of a force. With one side of that being negative which is just the bad side of God or the devil.

When we get into the powers of good and evil it might be easy to get into the religion or philosophy of yin and yang. There ya go another import from China, lol.

Mark are you really sure you are a pretty good trapper. If a coyote is predestined to get in your trap why waste the time with trap preparation and covering it up and baiting and scent on it. If the coyote is predestined to get in your trap why not just set a trap right out of the box and the coyote will just put his toe in it. Believe me, when I was a kid I believe some of my catches really were predestined.

Where was I wrong?

Jim

James,

I stand corrected. South central AK.

I was reminded of this thread earlier today. I was in the offuce working but could hear my wife listening to some MSM. They were talking about the use of force that Trump is advocating and asking how this is not fascism. Wow...just Wow....its easy to find fault but at least use the right words. Trump is anything but a fascist. Its sad that the MSM uses these code words that sound educated to link the POTUS to Nazis. Its worse than the Right's rhetoric during Obama's terms.

I can make up my own mythology based on yours, Mark. The same events, only a different interpretation.

God was stern and hard on Adam and Eve because He didn't know what it was like to be human.

Here he had put a mysterious, magical apple tree in the garden, and told His creations to leave it alone. And not knowing His creations very well, he assumed they would follow his directions.

But God had equipped man and woman with a curious mind, one that had a ceaseless quest for knowledge. To stay away from the Tree would be against their very nature. So they ate.

And God cursed them, much as you say. Though He really didn't mean to curse all snakes, just the Deceiver.

And God spent centuries trying to figure His human creations out. He threw fire, flood, and pestilence at them, but they wouldn't stop "sinning," i.e., acting according to the nature He had given them.

So finally God had a Son with a human woman. Perhaps living as a human for a while would help His understanding of them. It did. For thirty-three years (if I remember the Bible correctly), God lived as a mortal.

And when He was done with that, after the crucifixion, He left us alone for 2,000 years. Maybe He's still pondering us--a thousand years is as a second to God--or maybe He's abandoned us for some more promising life-form in the Andromeda Galaxy.

Now, the difference between your mythology and mine is you postulate an omnipotent God, while mine has His limitations.

Jim

I'd love to debate evolution with you sometime, but it's outside the scope of this thread.

Jim

James,

I think I saw your first fictional project, Hansel and Gretel, and the musical score was outstanding!
Just funnin' ya counselor.

In my humble opinion, you should prolly stick with jurisprudence, not orthodox theology. You're spot on correct in assuming I place faith in the omnipotent (omnipresent, omniscient) Triune God of Scripture, who commands followers to teach and baptize in His name, proclaiming the Gospel message. But thankfully, we have no power to convert, so bible thumpers at their core should be servant minded, and humble as much as possible. A very tough task but we thankfully we have Divine help.

If you believe God's Story is myth, I won't debate what you personally believe, as we're all free in this country at this present time, to follow our own individual paths, but I'm signed up to the only human who died and rose from the dead. You left that part out of your story. There's only been one who did it, and that's the game changer.

Blessings from hot south Texas!
Mark

But I thought we were talking about the OT, not the NT. I do like the Gospels, though I'm not very knowledgeable about the NT thereafter.

Yes, I know Jesus is the core of your faith. What I don't understand is why that faith requires you to accept the entire OT as literally true and to reject science, at least any science that appears to contradict the Bible.

Where in the OT does God claim to be omnipotent? That's just an interpretation of latter-day Christians. Certainly the OT God is portrayed as subject to negative human emotions like anger and jealousy. An omnipotent God would hardly get angry at humans for following the nature He gave them. An omnipotent God would have foreseen the failure of his plan for Man.

So who is to say my interpretation is more wrong than yours?

Jim

Oh and on the debate on evolutionary theory, I don't discount all evolution. There was a process and there was a Creator.
I just discount Darwin because to this day, while he and his kin proclaimed evolutionary precession, how do you get to that conclusion if inter-species trans-mutability is the answer to why there are so many gaps between evolutional species, and this has never been shown to have occurred? The missing gaps are along the whole spectrum chart that all of learned in high school. I studied invertebrates in grad school and there are no specific species to species mutations. So how'd a mollusk turn into a frog with a bigger brain and a better tongue?
It's not a good analogy, but this is TMan, not grad school.

Interestingly, modern scientists have gathering specific examples of intra-species species mutating in 1-3 generations, to accommodate their changing surroundings, strongly pointing to a Designer, not a Darwin evolutionary theory chain of events over the span of countless (meaningless) intra-species mutations.

If I wasn't setting traps on a new ranch starting this week, and I didn't have a rugged theology summer course, I'd love to enter into the world of apologetics and debate with you.
Rain check?

My summer course is really good!
The History of Christian Doctrine

Stay safe in the most beautiful state in this nation!
Mark

Bingo.

Doesn't matter which flag a jackboot is waving... He's still a jackboot and only cares about subjugation.

Mike

You're clouding omnipotent with immutable.
As far as wrong, I'm just a squirrel trying to gather a nut.
But I'm not a Marcionist, who long ago professed the God of the OT and NT were different Gods.

Okay on the debate raincheck. I have a bunch of work to do for my summer MFA residency right now anyway.

Is the virus--another product of evolution--affecting your studies? Our residency later this month is all virtual this time. I don't have to go to Maine.

When you have time, you might give a read of "The Ancestor's Tale," by Richard Dawkins. Now, Dawkins is probably known to you, but he only goes into his disbelief in God on one page of the text. The rest is a good succinct explanation of how our own ancestors were once single-celled life forms.

I don't see why acceptance of evolution leads to rejection of God. You might simply believe--as I sometimes do myself--that God started the whole process. In this respect I disagree with Dawkins.

Jim

Mark, respectfully I ask....

With these posts, are you suggesting that being a democrat is synonymous to colluding with the devil? Or am I reading into your words?

I mentioned in another thread that this is without question the most politically divided I have ever seen this country. I have an extremely difficult time understanding how the Jesus Christ described in the bible would look favorably on either party. Especially considering the misallocation of gluttonous amounts of money while others starve, go without, etc. Being a politician is often a very lucrative career and it could be argued that the inclusion of lobbyists, political posturing, and back-scratching for bill support would often trump (pun intended) what is in the best interest of constituents. In other words, greed takes precedence. Didn't that Jesus guy flip some tables over one time or something?

On that note, I have an even more difficult time understanding how a truly divine, eternal, and omnipotent creator would put such stock in the government (manmade construct) of yet another empire that has existed for a meager couple hundred years. That is, after all, barely a noticeable blip on the timeline of eternity. Humans have existed much longer without government than they have with it. To say that God has deemed the American conservative to be the only true cause is concerning to me. I understand the importance of it all, but I feel many are putting waaaaaaayyyyyyy too much attention on modern politics. Humans are capable of more than that.

It's always nice to chop it up with you Mark. Hope you are doing well.

James,

Many thanks on the book suggestion. I know Dawkins by his book "The Blind Watchmaker," which I've read parts of, and because I'm an avid reader (ask my wife) I'll get a copy as you suggest. Every time I visit evolutionary theorems, I get cold sweats as I recall my graduate studies in biology. It was there I first learned that not all knowledge is pure and worthy in academia! But then, I've always been one to buck the system, when the system "tells me" what to think and say.

As far as C-19, the virus shut DTS down mi- March and they hope to be live once again fall semester starting end of August. Good luck on your residency as well James! My professors are not young folk, and this online technology, while easy for some, has been a burden for others. Besides, the Christian faith is a faith of the body of Christ as you know, so fellowship is the norm... and not found on a tablet screen. But we do what we must, true?

As far as evolution, we debate this all the time on campus and I suspect in my next 3 years it'll get even more involved. The head of our Historical Theology department, Dr. John Hannah, a wonderful world scholar with as humble a disposition as God can grant, may say it best when he teaches us; "There are hills to take and then there are hills upon which we should not be concerned." He teaches that there is much mystery in our faith and we should accept that in a world who strives to PROVE IT!

The man was visiting John Calvin's church in Geneva on a Wednesday with his wife, and managed to end up being asked to preach from that pulpit 4 days later, so he's no slouch.
He says by the Grace of God should we get to heaven, we'll probably be surprised about three things right from the get-go;

1. Who is there
2. Who isn't there
3. That we're there

Oh and yes, there is tension as they say between evolutionists and theologians but the bridge is being gapped and that's fine with me. I don't have big answers like that.
I've met the person of the Bible during health trials and all during my life in which I've always had a love of Creation.
I firmly believe God held on to me through His revelation of Creation, long before I ever placed much faith in God.

Stay well and if you're ever in San Antonio, I give a pretty good historical account of the Alamo!

Mark

MNCedar,

Nope. The answer to your question. The color of someone's skin or their political party in no way deems the positioning of someone's heart and mission.
People make that pretty obvious themselves.

As far as your other question, it's been suggested since the Early Church Fathers, almost two millennia ago, that God raises up great nations on His time and for His purposes.
We have 60 nations, and ages 20 something to 70 something represented on DTS' campus in Dallas, so if you want to know what good debate looks like, man-o-man we have some good times debating that very question!

Love God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Teach others what Jesus taught us, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

That's about as simple as it gets right there.
Can we only imagine a world where this was taught, shown, viewed, believed, honored, proclaimed?
Maybe the suicides and abortions and wars and such would cease.

Stay well!

Mark