Good morning James. I'm going to take you, in a loving manner, out behind the woodshed, and you're going to get a whooping about the line and the theme that Bill Clinton, the progressives, and even some pastors have said in error. That Jesus never said anything about abortion, even though the practice was known in his time. I suspect you cut and pasted but I won't have to. You are incorrect. Scripture is absolutely clear on the biggest moral bankruptcy in our country = abortion. In fact, the reasons evangelicals and the church are sometimes confusing on this issue is that they wage the battle as if it's a political fight. It's not. It's a human morality fight. The progressives want it fought the way it's being fought now, but there are great inroads occurring as church folks regroup correctly.

First, when we deem what is life, what isn't life and when/what/how this occurs, we are now acting as God. God is very clear in Genesis about who is God and we are not. Very.
Second, Scripture tells us God's Children have a personality even before they are born; John the Baptist, while in the womb as a baby, leapt for joy (Greek word brephos), Luke 1:41, Jesus did also in Luke 2:12, 16, and the children who approached Jesus, Luke 18:15. Rebekah's children skirmished as a comparator in the Hebrew text of Genesis. So we see James, the Bible does say that it isn't a developing fetus in the womb, it's a fully developed child in the eyes of God! Further, my favorite Psalm is 139, that tells us God creates us all in the womb, in great marvel and majesty.

I might also add that the folks (Clinton and many others) do not know God. They may say they do, but it's not the God of the Bible they profess. The God of the Bible, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is one God as 3 Persons, perfect in unity, so when the Father speaks it is the same mission as Jesus, and vice versa. Far too many sects of Christianity deem Christ as a really good man, but not fully God. That has not been the orthodox Christian faith since the Early Church Fathers helped explain it.

There is so much more, but this is far enough to discount the progressive view you offered.
When we dehumanize humans, which God creates, we actively choose to be god, and turn from God. It couldn't be more striking that Jesus spoke as clear as fine glass on the sanctity of life. He came as the Incarnate for its eternal salvation. There has been no bigger statement in all of human history.

That's why progressives hate it. And why they actively seek to destroy all that is godly.
The only mystery may be, why does God allow it?
And that's a whole other answer.

Hope this helps open your eyes James.
Blessings
Mark

I'm amazed at all the guys still playing checkers when we need to be playing chess. It's not a Democrat vs Republican thing at this point. It's a how can I best advance the cause of freedom and liberty. IMO neither main nor any of the various thirds are a one shot path to that goal. I don't trust the average republican anymore than the average democrat. Heck I actually trust the democrat more. More to pursue and enact anti 2A and anti constitutional legislation than the republican to oppose.
As far as my strategy goes I've identified the main enemy and the party it hides in and gives it cover and will vote for and campaign for anything and anyone who has a chance of slowing or defeating that enemy.
It might surprise you but I actively campaigned for a democrat in the most recent local primary. Solely to defeat a much worse SJW progressive sitting commissioner in a solid democrat district. I even went so far as to urge republicans to cross over in our open primary. Unfortunately my candidate lost.
On the national stage it's obvious that the worst of the lot is the D party with the R being barely trustworthy. No 3rd option has even a hint of a chance at either winning outright or influencing either of the mains. NOTE, if a third could pose a serious enough split the vote threat then an influence vote would be worth the waste to swing a main into line. (Ross Perot comes to mind)
At this point Trump is my guy if for no other reason than to stop the democrats and as a non establishment to screw the republicans and hopefully get something done on exposing and draining the swamp. JMO, while we all may want a "none of the above" candidate or outsider not beholden to party politics I believe Trump has demonstrated that it can only be done, at this time, through one of the main two. Not until the stranglehold the two have over the swamp is broken will a third or coalition have a snowball's chance in perdition.

Thank you!

^^^^^^^
It would seem both national parties have slid to the left, to the left.
It's not liberalism.
It's called progressivism.
I wish we'd name them what they are.
Progressivism started in Europe and I have no idea why America, who cut most ties with that continent, feel deeply in love with Europe's bright thinkers about the same time as this country was founded. It picked up steam (progressivism of man) in the 1800's, pulled back a bit in the 1900's, but once again it's full steam ahead. Globalists are the epitome of progressives. They rule the world. So much for that Christian pagan God!

In depth research tells us, Americans don't like the word progressivism. It doesn't "sell" here like it does in Europe. So the branders renamed it "liberalism = liberals." Americans like that term,

I call then what they are. Progressives. Toward more man. Away from anything God.

Mark, I've been studying up on critical thinking and the Frankfurt School. It's amazing how the slow but steady incursion of that evil has spread.

James I am still waiting for your answer on who would be worthy in God's eyes to run the country. Surely as knowing as you are in the scriptures you would have quickly answered. I would actually be more interested in what your son would say since it appears he is practicing his faith according to you. (Have no reason to believe he is not) The POTUS is a flawed man as you and I are. I vote for those who would help further Christ's kingdom here in the US. I can wait for the answer so please put some thought into it. I have waited all my life for a man to lead in a Godly way. I bet I will never see it in my lifetime here but will be united with the one true King face to face and even I will be made PERFECT. LLL

As far as godly politicians go I figure we as christians have but two choices. Either go the way of the Amish and withdraw from the world, which is not scriptural, or prayerfully vote for the best option given while influencing the world for Christ.

Thanks for you honesty Jim.

This is not going to improve, and has been the case for over 50 years.

Mark, don't take James out behind the wood shed.........whoop him in public............you could sell tickets and make a fortune.

LOL Democratic trappers debate without any democrats participating.
LMAO.
just

Mark, you've given us a nice spectacle of John the Baptist leaping in the womb, but you didn't prove any part of my statement incorrect. If Jesus said something about abortion, it ought to be easy for you to find that passage of Scripture.

I've looked, never could find it. Maybe you can quote it for us?

Jim

I went with my daughter when she was about six or seven months pregnant for her ultrasound. It was amazing to watch. The difference in clarity than when she was a baby. My little granddaughter already had well defined facial features, she looked just like mom, was yawning and moving her little arms. I don’t need to find it in the Bible to know that it’s wrong to murder unborn babies. Since this is off the OP a bit I’ll tie it in....the same people are anti trapping, anti gun, largely pro abortion and are the same ones you are seeing on TV looting and rioting. I’d have to ask myself, why am I aligned politically with these people? What am I going over top of morally to justify my alliance with them?

How about God Himself when He instructed the Israelites not to allow their children to pass through the fire (sacrificed to the canaanite god molech)

Exodus 20

Not going to argue religion or if abortion is right or wrong, or about the choice of a women. Just posing a question, who is going to absorb the cost of all the kids now being aborted?? Seems like a lot of folks on this site including me are tired of funding welfare.

Cost? I see added labor force, wage earners and taxpayers.

I think the point of this thread was to debate if electing Democrats is good for the future of trapping and gun rights. We already know it's not good for the future of unborn babies.

Spot on Walleye.

I agree with MT original post 100%. The only thing I would add is that any canuck trappers who vote for Canadian Liberals, NDP, or Green Party are cutting their own throats as well.